ISIS,Obama and the plot to remove Assad,puzzle piecies falling into place now.

a reply to: Xcathdra

"Nor would we know how it would be if the USSR and now Russia didn't support those pesky dictators who kill their own people."

The guy you were replying to mentioned meddling in Syria, Ukraine and Libya. You countered with Russia supporting dictators. I wanted to point out that America created many dictators all on their own. Shah of Iran is a great example of this, as is Saddam Hussein.

a reply to: tavi45

The other poster I replied to covered the American dictators.
I covered the Soviet and Russian dictators.

You are behind the curve on this one.

Ok so even if you did not know ISIS history one that stetches back over a decade starting Jordan how would it's actions be in US interest. Let us recall that while the FSA were winning in Syria and starting to get some real US and Westen backing that ISIS and Assad stopped fighting each other and both focused on the US backed FSA. How is that good for the US? ISIS also targets the US backed Kurds in Syria and Iraq. ISIS as plot to remove Assad has no basis in history or logic.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I didn't see Hussein or the Shah in this thread. If I'm wrong, my apologies. I saw a focus on the last decade or so. I wanted the younger people or this with poor knowledge of history to be aware that America has been imposing and deposing dictators and rebel groups in the middle east and elsewhere since WW2 ended not just recently.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Why would you put it that way?

Here's a back story about the emergence of isis.

In 2007, the Bush administration financed a Sunni army — the Awakening — and Galbraith says this is responsible for the success so far in Iraq. Biden would take this to the next step and encourage the Sunnis to form their own region

NPR

If anyone is curious

As for those who refuse to "think the unthinkable," declaring that boundaries must not change and that’s that, it pays to remember that boundaries have never stopped changing through the centuries. Borders have never been static, and many frontiers, from Congo through Kosovo to the Caucasus, are changing even now (as ambassadors and special representatives avert their eyes to study the shine on their wingtips). Oh, and one other dirty little secret from 5,000 years of history: Ethnic cleansing works.

Blood Borders
New Middle East Map

originally posted by: MrSpad
ISIS as plot to remove Assad has no basis in history or logic.

Right, but isn`t that exactly what they are trying to sell us now? An illogical story with no basis in history?
They are basically saying that in order to defeat ISIS we have to take out Assad.
I don`t see the connection between Assad and ISIS so why are they trying to convince us that they are certain that ISIS can`t be defeated unless Assad is removed?

They are trying to sell us a package deal and if we don`t buy it they will point their finger and say: " you`re an ISIS supporter because you won`t support our plan to get rid of Assad"

For the last 15 years all we have heard from the government is, Taliban, Al Qadea, Bin laden Taliban, Al Qadea,Bin laden and now practically overnight ISIS is the biggest baddest wolf in the forest and the only way to defeat them is to get rid of Assad?

It`s too much of a coincidence that the guy (Assad) that they have been trying to get rid of for how many years? is now suddenly the key lynch pin to defeating this newest and baddest terror organization ISIS.

a reply to: GodEmperor

Why did you truncate the quote?

In 2007, the Bush administration financed a Sunni army — the Awakening — and Galbraith says this is responsible for the success so far in Iraq. Biden would take this to the next step and encourage the Sunnis to form their own region, which would control that army, just as the Kurdistan region controls the Peshmerga, or the Kurdistan army, Galbraith says.

To possibly try and portray what the author stated as something its not?

Secondly its from 2008 and a bit behind the times.

But they cut people's heads off! I saw it on the interwebz! Isis is real yall. They are raping erbody out there. Bewts on da groundz! Operation enduring freedumbs!

a reply to: AlphaHawk

Not forgetting the Bosnia / Serbia that seemed to open all doors

originally posted by: steaming
a reply to: AlphaHawk

Not forgetting the Bosnia / Serbia that seemed to open all doors

Which door would that be?

Where they were committing genocide on the muslims?

a reply to: Xcathdra

He may be referring to the door of America and it's allies intervening in civil wars. They've done so very selectively so obviously it wasn't a pure desire to help prevent genocide.

originally posted by: Tardacus

originally posted by: MrSpad
ISIS as plot to remove Assad has no basis in history or logic.

Right, but isn`t that exactly what they are trying to sell us now? An illogical story with no basis in history?
They are basically saying that in order to defeat ISIS we have to take out Assad.
I don`t see the connection between Assad and ISIS so why are they trying to convince us that they are certain that ISIS can`t be defeated unless Assad is removed?

They are trying to sell us a package deal and if we don`t buy it they will point their finger and say: " you`re an ISIS supporter because you won`t support our plan to get rid of Assad"

For the last 15 years all we have heard from the government is, Taliban, Al Qadea, Bin laden Taliban, Al Qadea,Bin laden and now practically overnight ISIS is the biggest baddest wolf in the forest and the only way to defeat them is to get rid of Assad?

It`s too much of a coincidence that the guy (Assad) that they have been trying to get rid of for how many years? is now suddenly the key lynch pin to defeating this newest and baddest terror organization ISIS.

While the Turks and Arab states have been pushing hard for Assad to go the US, while ok with the idea, has not wanted to get directly involved. They have had many many chances to and have not. At this point the US sees what has happened in Iraq with removal of the old regime and its replacement with a more unified government. The Kurds and Iraqis are now working together and being joined by Sunni militias. If Assad could replaced with unity goverment that could bring the FSA, Kurds, Syrian militias together. And more importantly the large Syrian Army that spends it days away from the fighting because Assads fears more defections would now be loyal army that could be brought in to deal with ISIS. So looking at Iraq as the example the yes it is very logical to conclude that Syria would be better equipped to deal with ISIS, with Assad gone and unity government in place.

And to answer your question about why all you ever heard of was AlQueda this was because ISIS called itself AlQueda in Iraq. They changed names when they scored those victories in Iraq and turned on AlQueda because they did not want to share power.

Things in this part of the world are very complex. And it is hard to understand who is who and the conflicts have multiple sides with certain parties changing sides. The Kurds at one time accused Assad of creating ISIS because for a long time ISIS was fighting everybody but, Assad. That ended of course when Assads and ISIS had driven the FSA back.

a reply to: tavi45

* - UNSCR 1160 - 1998
* - UNSCR 1199 - 1998
* - UNSCR 1203 - 1998
* - UNSCR 1239 - 1999
* - UNSCR 1244 - 1999

Yes we intervened in a civil war, right along with Russia who voted for and sent forces in with NATO by UN mandate to stop the wholesale slaughter of Muslims and other non combatants.

The only nation who had issues with it was China, who abstained from the vote instead of vetoing it.

As a side note the UN resolutions are still in effect.


Neither side, the US nor Russia, are innocent and trying to claim the moral high ground on either side is not only disingenuous but impossible.

a reply to: MrSpad
So... in your logic, the Islamic Caliphate, wanting extremist sunni rule across Iraq and Syria and the Levant, had no desire to remove an Alawite ruler in the midst of said territory?

Give me a break. The only reason the US hasnt smothered this so called "existential threat" is because they are beneficial. Militants are doing America's dirty work. Or did you forget:

Iraq SYRIA Lebanon Libya Somalia Sudan Iran

a reply to: Ridhya

If they are such a threat to Syria why is Russia remaining hands off?

I would also like to point out that Syria has welcomed international assistance in fighting ISIS. I would also point out the US is not the only nation involved in this.

Isis didn't just appear overnight. They have been consolidating power in the region since we left. Years in the making.

Well such groups like this never attack Americas friends in the middle east, and where did ISIS go when it sprung up out of nowhere? straight into Syria through IRAQ.

Their presence in Iraq is only token to provide a cover for their real role which is to go into Syria and throw Assad out. Now however it seems their success is not as hoped.

I read recently ISIS apparently said something about going to China, again, how very convenient for the US should it turn out to be accurate.

a reply to: Tardacus

John Kerry asked the American population if he and his mates can go and free the crap out of Syria in August last year.

The US and global population told him to piss off.

Then ISIS showed up.

Now Obama is asking again.

Guess what comes next if you say no a second time?

a reply to: PraetorianAZ

I think children need to have included in their lessons the story of the control the central banks have over the world and how they are desperate to get into the last few countries not blighted with their presence.

The sooner we start shouting to get rid of these parasites the better - after all hown many corrupt banks and bankers does the world really need - no where near the number we currently support.

What interests me really down the line is what role israel plays in all of this - she is the elephant in this room of equations?

I wonder how americans would feel if people openly talked about assassinating bambam like american media talks about getting rid of assad? Although I suspect there would be a number of people quite happy to see our little daring removed in the UK - some might even cheer I suspect even though bambam is not as popular as he use to be (spends too much time playing around rather than persidencing) I suspect americans would be mortified were an ourside country wanting to get rid of their president they have elected - no wonder people in countries such as libya are pretty irritated by usa actions concerning their country and the lack of discretion and common sense of their media's virtual boasting about what america can achieve without even putting troops on the ground.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh right, so that quote is completely off base, talking about both administration's supporting a Sunni army and encouraging it to form it's own region. Absolutely nothing to do with the Sunni army ISIS and their moves to form their own region today. I guess that makes me Santa Clause.