Disinformation Agents Need Not Apply, We Have Believers

Since having 2 NDE ' S as a child and coming from a very twisted family, I did what a number of individuals with confusing pasts do. I studied psychology. In an attempt to better understand myself. I majored in physics as well. 45k later and a job secured as a BX Therapist, I left my Tech Fab job to change the world. After years of working Holidays and regular trips to psych wards I found people to be beyond helping unless they were ready to help themselves. And most important, a lie is a way to alter someone's perspective of yourself usually because you find the truth shaming or suffer from low self-esteem. And unfortunately, everyone's cups are so full of opinions they're not willing to empty any out to make room for knowledge.

I've lurked ATS for YEARS and finally joined 4-5 years ago feeling my credentials and education may benefit some here. Sadly after years of participating, I don't think it has. Why?

The number of wild claims on this forum is astronomical. ATS is quickly losing its credibility in the UFO fields and it's not due to any disinfo agents claimed to be lurking but by those claiming to be whistle blowers and eager believers. First and foremost, any claims preached should provide proof. Simply basing merit on your forum credentials is a joke. Anyone can look like a pro in any subject on a forum with a simple Google search. If you're claiming to be an astronaut and to have spent years immersed in a massive conspiracy and can't even provide a single picture then I beg of you to refrain from posting. You're not helping move us towards disclosure, you're only seeking attention that is better utilized analyzing actual stories that have data in need of review.

There is no excuse for producing false information other than to discredit mine and other serious researches intelligence. If you believe something to be true but don't have solid proof, then post it as opinion. Don't claim it to be true because it isn't. We skeptics are the ones with the UFO Phenomenon's best interest at heart. We search for proof that cannot be disproved. We don't choose to boost the egos of liars and have no desire to continue to give rise to hoaxes. ***Someone please explain to me how making threads with wild claims and no proof helps with anything. Please explain to me how abandoning the same thread when lies are challenged and then signing up as a different user to continue making wild claims is beneficial to this movement? It isn't.

Those of you who are easy to believe and attack skeptics are simply encouraging groups like Project Serpo and others. Titor's LLC for example has made hundreds off this. And no matter how much is proved to be false, because you think there is something going on, you latch on to the story as completely true and defend it. Even going as far as making up lies yourself. Come on ATS, you can't expect the government to come clean when our own members can't.

Again I'll reiterate. There is a difference between an experience and undeniable proof. How about we keep that in mind when posting. If I can't hear your psychic link to the mothership on how to build an FTL engine than it's an experience until you slap one together. If you're a top secret test pilot for years and can't provide even a picture, then let me know and I'll pencil you in for a free session.

I remain here because sometimes there are bits and pieces of good info, but the amount of bs claims lately attracting cult like devotion is disturbing... especially when there's little to zero proof. I choose not to look away because I don't like watching my fellow ATS members get dragged down a rabbit hole of an attention whor3s own making.

Great rule of thumb is something my mother taught me...in fact there's three perfect rules one should always keep in mind if you really want to see progress in this field.

1. Is better to be thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.

2. Sagan "Exceptional claims require exceptional evidence"

3. Are you willing to bet your life on it.

If those three ideas were always in someone's mind prior to posting, I feel we'd already be in the know. But individuals like Valle whom have spent years actually trying to help and progress the community are constantly eclipsed by hoaxes and attention seeking individuals. AND IT'S CRAZY THAT MEMBERS CONTINUE TO STAND BY CLAIMS THAT CONTRADICT MORE CREDIBLE THEORIES WITH ACTUAL PROOF.

So in closing, there's no need for Disinformation Agents any longer. UFO movement is populated with enough contradicting hoaxers to keep us from focusing on credible claims for decades. Thanks Big Brother, but you can call off your "Mirage Men"...we'll take it from here.

a reply to: Jenisiz

So you give no credit to the disinfo folks being smart enough to change their tactics after they have lost the game of simply claiming for decades that UFO/ETs don't exist? If so, you show disrespect for their creativity and progression of the necessary plan of eventual disclosure (small "d"). Plus, I would offer that you retain too much of the of the old, standard psychological position of knowing the answers (because i was taught by my conventional professors and my experiences with truly crazy people) and I can tell the difference when somebody writes an over-the-top thread). All in all, you have grasped the tactic but fail to understand the depth of the program.

a reply to: Jenisiz

Whats a BX Therapist? I googled it and its either a therapist from the Bronx or it has something to do with behaviorism.

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Jenisiz

All in all, you have grasped the tactic but fail to understand the depth of the program.

For which you have exactly ZERO proof other than your opinion.

I have said for years on ATS that there is no need for disinfo agents because the crazies provide their own disinformation believing it to be real and bring enough discredit to the issues to render the field completely nuts anyway. If I were God of the Disinfo Program you so assuredly believe exists, my tactic would be to leave sites like this alone because they are their own worst enemies. It's simply not necessary to attempt to disrupt something that is so inherently messed up already. It would be a complete waste of taxpayer dollars.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Jenisiz

Whats a BX Therapist? I googled it and its either a therapist from the Bronx or it has something to do with behaviorism.

Loved the "therapist from the Bronx" but I think you misspelled a word. It's "therapist from 'da Bronx"...

a reply to: Jenisiz

*** Applause ***

Very-well said.

People should take a look sometime on YouTube at any number of "UFO" videos that are actually remote-controlled hobby drones with LED lights. The video alleges it to be an alien ship, while those of us that have been researching for years or even decades can easily tell the difference.

There are so many unfortunate people that believe it's a real alien ship. Same goes for videos of planes at night, balloons. These things are so easily identifiable, yet so many believe they are alien ships or living creatures in the atmosphere.

Which is actually hilarious in and of itself considering if there were living creatures in the atmosphere, our aerial vehicles would have numerous incursions, and we would have caught some to study by now.

I agree with your assessment, though. There are so many ridiculous and outrageous claims in not only the UFO research field, but most other scientific fields as well, that muddy the waters beyond belief.


Cheers to those of us that help keep real science and real reality alive.

a reply to: Jenisiz

First and foremost, any claims preached should provide proof. Simply basing merit on your forum credentials is a joke. Anyone can look like a pro in any subject on a forum with a simple Google search. If you're claiming to be an astronaut…

On seeing UFOs. Witnesses like me have their one or two experiences over a lifetime and thats it. Can't get a degree in that. Can't take my sighting away either, I know what I saw… Nyah, nyah.

By the way, thats why I are here, to share and get others to tell their stories, too. All the accredited celebrities with degrees in "higher education" can take a hike.

Great thread. Maybe sounding a little more like it should be in the Rant section rather than Gray Area? But I do agree. I started on ATS being slightly intrigued about some UFO stories, but the vast majority has been people with minds already made up on what it is. Then they get mad when people suggest it's something else.... That confuses me, why did they post it in the first place? So over the years, any interest I had in the UFO section has evaporated to the point now that it is myself prejudging the thread already knowing it most certainly is not aliens.
That saddens me that the BS brigade has slowly made me build up defensive walls around this subject.

This may seem like heresy but ATS isn't about information, education, fact finding, or consciousness raising; It's an entertainment site.

You very well might find a small kernel of truth among the dreck, but it's rare!

But as an entertainment site ATS is exceptional!!

Always remember....it's free and you get what you pay for!

One of the most succesful startegies used by the disinfo crowd is to fill forums with stupid nonsense thats easily debunked. Then they sign in with another name and debunk it. Then they start hooting and holering about how foolish everyone is.

Its called Social engineering, and there's a lot of it happening, even in this thread!

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Jenisiz

So you give no credit to the disinfo folks being smart enough to change their tactics after they have lost the game of simply claiming for decades that UFO/ETs don't exist? If so, you show disrespect for their creativity and progression of the necessary plan of eventual disclosure (small "d"). Plus, I would offer that you retain too much of the of the old, standard psychological position of knowing the answers (because i was taught by my conventional professors and my experiences with truly crazy people) and I can tell the difference when somebody writes an over-the-top thread). All in all, you have grasped the tactic but fail to understand the depth of the program.

Apparently you're missing the point all together. Scroll through the forums and count how many threads are claiming to provide truth with not a shred of physical evidence. These threads are slammed at the top with pages of people defending someone solely from their forum cred. If the government is behind this, then I need to give them more credit because they're amassing cult followings with nothing more than a username with a high post count.

Valle should receive more recognition... not thread after thread of opinions. I've spent years as a shrink and can easily discern the difference of what society considers normal, and your typical poster with a personality disorder. I had the biggest success rate at AzCA... unlike several people here I utilize my education instead of posting for the sake of posting. An over the top thread is the issue as its pulling members to argue over something with zero merit. If you couldn't grasp that from my original post then you're part of the problem... opinion filled with a taste of "look at me" to boot.

originally posted by: VoidHawk
One of the most succesful startegies used by the disinfo crowd is to fill forums with stupid nonsense thats easily debunked. Then they sign in with another name and debunk it. Then they start hooting and holering about how foolish everyone is.

Its called Social engineering, and there's a lot of it happening, even in this thread!

This is another example of serious issues...attempting to belittle someone when your own knowledge isn't up to par for the task. Social Engineering is not a psych tactic, it's used in the hacking field as a means of security entrusion.

What you're attempting to relay is in the realm of Social Trust...common in the Social Science. But alas, you're mind is made up. You find what I say disheartening and so lash out by calling me a disinfo agent...thanks for assisting in the confirmation of my agenda.

originally posted by: olaru12
This may seem like heresy but ATS isn't about information, education, fact finding, or conscientiousness raising; It's an entertainment site.

You very well might find a small kernel of truth among the dreck, but it's rare!

But as an entertainment site ATS is exceptional!!

Always remember....it's free and you get what you pay for!

Agreed... It's just crazy to see these cults rise up over no proof. It's really disappointing, These people attacking skeptics can't even see past the fact that several of the stories they defend contradict one another. Blind leading the blind for sure.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Jenisiz

First and foremost, any claims preached should provide proof. Simply basing merit on your forum credentials is a joke. Anyone can look like a pro in any subject on a forum with a simple Google search. If you're claiming to be an astronaut…

On seeing UFOs. Witnesses like me have their one or two experiences over a lifetime and thats it. Can't get a degree in that. Can't take my sighting away either, I know what I saw… Nyah, nyah.

By the way, thats why I are here, to share and get others to tell their stories, too. All the accredited celebrities with degrees in "higher education" can take a hike.

Agreed bud...and I enjoy hearing experiences. My issue is when people push it over the edge though as if they have the truth. I've pm'd several here with photos I've snapped from personal experiences but don't take it any further. I don't know what it was you know?

Qumulys I agree entirely.

originally posted by: Jenisiz

This is another example of serious issues...attempting to belittle someone when your own knowledge isn't up to par for the task. Social Engineering is not a psych tactic, it's used in the hacking field as a means of security entrusion.

Yes it is used by hackers, because it works!
Phone the victim, have a chat with them, make them feel like they would be silly not to give you the info you seek.
Its the same method.

originally posted by: Jenisiz
You find what I say disheartening and so lash out by calling me a disinfo agent

Like to show me where I said that?

originally posted by: _BoneZ_
a reply to: Jenisiz

*** Applause ***

Very-well said.

People should take a look sometime on YouTube at any number of "UFO" videos that are actually remote-controlled hobby drones with LED lights. The video alleges it to be an alien ship, while those of us that have been researching for years or even decades can easily tell the difference.

There are so many unfortunate people that believe it's a real alien ship. Same goes for videos of planes at night, balloons. These things are so easily identifiable, yet so many believe they are alien ships or living creatures in the atmosphere.

Which is actually hilarious in and of itself considering if there were living creatures in the atmosphere, our aerial vehicles would have numerous incursions, and we would have caught some to study by now.

I agree with your assessment, though. There are so many ridiculous and outrageous claims in not only the UFO research field, but most other scientific fields as well, that muddy the waters beyond belief.


Cheers to those of us that help keep real science and real reality alive.

Spot on Bonez...spot on. I wish we could set a precedence for when it comes to reporting. As technology advances we're seeing more and more hoaxes coming forth that are becoming harder to discredit.

I don't think people realize the severe ramifications of this. Lacking the ability to review cases from the skeptics side, we're only encouraging their behavior and will inevitably reach a point where a mere 2nd hand video or sighting will no longer suffice. People please don't let it get to that point...

originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: Jenisiz

This is another example of serious issues...attempting to belittle someone when your own knowledge isn't up to par for the task. Social Engineering is not a psych tactic, it's used in the hacking field as a means of security entrusion.

Yes it is used by hackers, because it works!
Phone the victim, have a chat with them, make them feel like they would be silly not to give you the info you seek.
Its the same method.

originally posted by: Jenisiz
You find what I say disheartening and so lash out by calling me a disinfo agent

Like to show me where I said that?

I get what you're saying but social engineering has to do with exploiting securities and involves another party to work. Challenging ones own concepts under another name causes it to fall into the realm of Trust.

Your comment "Its called Social engineering, and there's a lot of it happening, even in this thread!" In addition to your understanding of social engineering led me to believe as such. If that was not your intention, please excuse me.

Hey ZetaRediculian, BX is just a shortened way to say Behavioral. I spent several years as a Behavioral Therapist for both Government's private sector and Non-profit agencies.

Edit: And with the private sector my main job was verifying credentials of field agents calling in for specs/care packages and updates. When it comes to tracking folks and intentions I was a pro... hence my unending desire for truth and exposure of falsified stories. Members see my tentative behavior at being skeptical as proof I'm some disinfo agent but I can assure you I'm not and believe in my fair share of conspiracy theories. I just go about which I believe in a more scientific manner than most here.

originally posted by: VoidHawk
One of the most succesful startegies used by the disinfo crowd is to fill forums with stupid nonsense thats easily debunked. Then they sign in with another name and debunk it. Then they start hooting and holering about how foolish everyone is.

Its called Social engineering, and there's a lot of it happening, even in this thread!

I don't think that phrase means what you think it means. "Social engineering" is the process of talking you out of security details to enable someone to break into your computer (or maybe your house) or one you control. It has nothing at all to do with "disinformation," which is the process of spreading false information sprinkled with known facts to make it impossible to discern what the true facts are. They are polls apart. One intends to steal access to property you may control. The other is meant to confuse you. The goals of the two methods are completely different.

Nice try, but epic fail.

I no longer read the UFO threads. Personally, I believe that UFO's exist, but with all the disinfo out there I have no idea what to believe. So I've come to the realization that the only "extraordinary evidence" that I'll believe in the future is what I see with my own eyes.

a reply to: Jenisiz

Hey ZetaRediculian, BX is just a shortened way to say Behavioral. I spent several years as a Behavioral Therapist for both Government's private sector and Non-profit agencies.

Thought so. But when you google "BX Therapist", you really do get a bunch links to therapists in "da Bronx". Might confuse people around here. I have been enjoying your contributions. Hope you stick around.