Disinformation Agents Need Not Apply, We Have Believers

If you want to tear down the UFO forum so much, just do it.

This discrediting movement is getting absurd, and now we're all being analyzed and thrown in the pot with the odd few habitual hoaxers who plague many places on the net.

Those folks are not my folks, those folks seek some crazy form of interworship..

I just want answers to many things that don't have answers in known science, or do but they won't tell us because it "a secret" (and on that.. here on ATS, there are many posts by aviation folks that hint at NDA's and things flying around that are ours but are super secret tech.. even a mod..)

If wanting some answers means i have to hang out with some unhinged folks.. then so be it, but don't ever just throw the entire lot of open minded people into the crazy boat because they don't subscribe to your doctrine intellectual dogma, an institutionalized view of the world ruled by strict psychological factors.. it simply does not apply to an individual seeing what cannot be easily classified into known parameters.

Your ilk hasn't done the hard research in that field yet, not to a level where it's a common, maybe some fringe theory's but no hard case data to form an analysis based on previous cases.. what is a normal reaction/ what is not.

so please, either kill the UFO forum.. or can we end this attack, as it IS an attack now this is one thread on the subject of "those UFO people are crazy" too many in the negative. This slow kill off is getting bizarre.. im sure im not the only one to see it...

Or maybe im just crazy myself.. and this is all normal.. but i have my suspicions, based in what i've seen work a treat on other smaller forums.. and i see the pattern forming on ATS recently.. soon the only thing "safe" will be political and mainstream threads.. veiled innuendo, and cat memes.

originally posted by: Xarian6
If you want to tear down the UFO forum so much, just do it.

This discrediting movement is getting absurd, and now we're all being analyzed and thrown in the pot with the odd few habitual hoaxers who plague many places on the net.

Those folks are not my folks, those folks seek some crazy form of interworship..

I just want answers to many things that don't have answers in known science, or do but they won't tell us because it "a secret" (and on that.. here on ATS, there are many posts by aviation folks that hint at NDA's and things flying around that are ours but are super secret tech.. even a mod..)

If wanting some answers means i have to hang out with some unhinged folks.. then so be it, but don't ever just throw the entire lot of open minded people into the crazy boat because they don't subscribe to your doctrine intellectual dogma, an institutionalized view of the world ruled by strict psychological factors.. it simply does not apply to an individual seeing what cannot be easily classified into known parameters.

Your ilk hasn't done the hard research in that field yet, not to a level where it's a common, maybe some fringe theory's but no hard case data to form an analysis based on previous cases.. what is a normal reaction/ what is not.

so please, either kill the UFO forum.. or can we end this attack, as it IS an attack now this is one thread on the subject of "those UFO people are crazy" too many in the negative. This slow kill off is getting bizarre.. im sure im not the only one to see it...

Or maybe im just crazy myself.. and this is all normal.. but i have my suspicions, based in what i've seen work a treat on other smaller forums.. and i see the pattern forming on ATS recently.. soon the only thing "safe" will be political and mainstream threads.. veiled innuendo, and cat memes.

You can't be serious... there's 8 members that I would label skeptics that post in the UFO forum and we are the same ones getting barrage with the "disinfo" label whenever we call out credible issues. Seriously scroll through them and take count, Gut, Zeta and a few others approach every topic as wanting to believe but with little to no evidence to do so. If we make a comment it turns into a battery of weak rebuttals and a majority of our proof it's a hoax goes unaddressed. We want proof...not "trust me I'm an astronaut exploring the sky's with no proof" or "my friend builds these things but we have nothing to show for it" threads. You don't get tired of trying to expose the truth but in order to do so, you have to wade through days of exaggerated lies?

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: VoidHawk
One of the most succesful startegies used by the disinfo crowd is to fill forums with stupid nonsense thats easily debunked. Then they sign in with another name and debunk it. Then they start hooting and holering about how foolish everyone is.

Its called Social engineering, and there's a lot of it happening, even in this thread!

I don't think that phrase means what you think it means. "Social engineering" is the process of talking you out of security details to enable someone to break into your computer (or maybe your house) or one you control. It has nothing at all to do with "disinformation," which is the process of spreading false information sprinkled with known facts to make it impossible to discern what the true facts are. They are polls apart. One intends to steal access to property you may control. The other is meant to confuse you. The goals of the two methods are completely different.

Nice try, but epic fail.

Winner winner...

Remember rule one - Best to be thought a fool then to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.

I get what he was saying, but what we just witnessed is exactly what I'm referring to in this forum. I'm being called out for using a tactic the poster doesn't understand. If you're going to calm someone out, at least do so intelligently instead of making nonsensical accusations you don't understand simply because I'm a skeptic.

One thing to be said about ATS is it is also the place where people with extraordinary beliefs come to talk about them. I remember the 6000+ post on whether Criss Angel's stunts were real magic or not. In these cases there is no way to change someone's view from one on the extreme fringe. They do not come here to debate they come here to tell.....

originally posted by: Xtrozero
One thing to be said about ATS is it is also the place where people with extraordinary beliefs come to talk about them. I remember the 6000+ post on whether Criss Angel's stunts were real magic or not. In these cases there is no way to change someone's view from one on the extreme fringe. They do not come here to debate they come here to tell.....

Right lol, discussion board with nothing open for discussing

a reply to: Jenisiz

I've pm'd several here with photos I've snapped from personal experiences but don't take it any further. I don't know what it was you know?

When you said that I checked my envelope and sadly it wasn't white. i'd love to see your pics.

I don't know what it was either. At times I call it a craft or a thingy or an unknown. But I do know it was technology. it flew, it behaved unlike any earthly thingy. I was with others and everyone agreed (what the hell is that?).

Thats why i say witness instead of believer, too.

a reply to: intrptr

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Jenisiz

I've pm'd several here with photos I've snapped from personal experiences but don't take it any further. I don't know what it was you know?

When you said that I checked my envelope and sadly it wasn't white. i'd love to see your pics.

I don't know what it was either. At times I call it a craft or a thingy or an unknown. But I do know it was technology. it flew, it behaved unlike any earthly thingy. I was with others and everyone agreed (what the hell is that?).

Thats why i say witness instead of believer, too.

I'll throw it in here. Underneath my rear view you'll see a bright orb. It was chasing a massive object on the other side of the freeway. It looked like a giant triangle turning sideways. There were several flying over the freeway and you can see some cars ahead of me with their break lights on. We were all watching them buzz around. Cars behind me ended being the cops. We all chased them...fun night.

fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net...


pic won't show so click here to see

But how are we supposed to know what you say about your credentials is real. I am not requiring proof, I am saying that we cannot completely trust anyone on this site unless we have met them in person, and even then, who checks to see if a guy saying he is a professor with multiple degrees is really a professor. I have known people who lied about who they were to everyone, they had many people BSed and nobody even checked.

I am a nobody, a nobody who likes to keep learning. I could keep everything I learn to myself, but then what is the use of learning it. I see much information misapplied in my research, and the ones misapplying it are people with big credentials. It is almost like someone is paying them to misapply it.

So evidence can be fabricated using tactics that discount anything that doesn't fit their desires. It seems that the person funding the research gets to choose what the research is going to conclude by setting the boundries of the research.

originally posted by: rickymouse
But how are we supposed to know what you say about your credentials is real. I am not requiring proof, I am saying that we cannot completely trust anyone on this site unless we have met them in person, and even then, who checks to see if a guy saying he is a professor with multiple degrees is really a professor. I have known people who lied about who they were to everyone, they had many people BSed and nobody even checked.

I am a nobody, a nobody who likes to keep learning. I could keep everything I learn to myself, but then what is the use of learning it. I see much information misapplied in my research, and the ones misapplying it are people with big credentials. It is almost like someone is paying them to misapply it.

So evidence can be fabricated using tactics that discount anything that doesn't fit their desires. It seems that the person funding the research gets to choose what the research is going to conclude by setting the boundries of the research.

I'm willing to send you my linked in no problem. That's where myself and dozens of others differ. I won't hide behind my Keyboard pretending...more than happy to provide my creds and proof. I feel like in order to make progress we first must be honest and open.

Something I've been toying with is the idea of starting a forum where creds are displayed in your signature and all discussions would be approached using a scientific method. A site that focuses on honesty and a true desire to find the truth. Sadly though I don't think it would work here...people tend to like their anonymity...at least those whom feel at an educational disadvantage.

Now I don't believe having an education makes anyone better than anyone else...but it does strengthen ones stance when debating contradicting theories. Does more for forum credit than seniority or post count. I'm much more inclined to believe a scientist claiming to have worked on the TR-3b for the US than someone else claiming to fly them for a Breakaway Civilization (Both have contradicting stories) that doesn't even have a GED. Imagine for a second if your work history and education were posted for all to see...I'd bet anything the number of wild claims and their supporters would drop significantly. ***Look at MUFON... how many average educated Joes do they hire? None.

Again not saying education is everything. But it's incredibly imperative when there's wild claims with no proof or resolving differing opinions on warp drive tech for example.

there's been a lot of skeptic burnout on the boards the last couple of days. that's too bad, because who do you think is represented here in the largest numbers? who do you think comprises the majority of silent readers? it's the people who watch "ancient aliens" and think they are being told a secret truth, the people who listen to alex jones and get scared of the world for all the wrong reasons, it's people who are VULNERABLE for whatever reason to stories like the one that's giving you hives because you can see how fake it is.

ats works because it's where the believers meet the skeptics. that what makes it entertaining, sure, but it's also what makes it potentially helpful. and that's why you took all those working vacations to bedlam, right? because helping people is important to you.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I have been enjoying your contributions. Hope you stick around.

i'll second that

a reply to: Jenisiz

I think you might be happier on the UFO forums if you lowered your standards. You're expecting too much of the participants here. This is where the novices go to have fun with it. Every once in a blue moon you will see something professionally presented with links to prove what was written/shown. When you see that, save the links and U2U the member to get info on other sites or real life organizations that fit your bill.

ATS isn't the end-all for the truth, but it is a good place to start.

In a sea of lies who knows what is true ?

What i do know is that the state is spending a small fortune on internet propaganda and that includes having Google and Twitter onboard to promote one line of thinking and to hide anything that goes against the lies.

The all american control of all the big internet names has taken over 95% of the internet and it si no longer free and open

Looking for certainty in a world full of doubt is not easy. In this digital age trust is a very big issue everywhere, even highly respected documents like Obama's birth certificate raise inconsistencies and questions of authenticity. Internet forums like ATS do provide a good platform for robust discussion and debate on the many matters. As for getting to the truth it can take a lot of time, effort and resources through a very politically challenged environment like the MH17 crash in Ukraine as one example.

As for how the internet continues to evolve towards enhancing our decision making ability is something I am interested in. Your perceptions towards human behavior on the UFO forum describes a typical bipolar political environment. Those with the more extremist views tend to be the loudest and more emotionally charged towards the subject.

In an environment where there are two main competing ideologies with a lot of complicated and case by case detail, how do we make it better?

Being a skeptic is never popular. I get a lot of flack for my opinions. Confirmation biases are strong and if someone truly wants to believe something, no matter how nonsensical, then they will.

a reply to: Jenisiz

My observation is that humans tend to do all that they do,
due to a wounded sense of self.

It's not about researching.

It's not about learning.

It's not about improving.

It's not about 'helping the world'.

ATS is a perfect place for misfits to come, to
unload their pain on each other, to ease their
existential issues.

As to 'disinfo agents'; our entire human culture
is designed to keep the powerful in power, by
inducing people to waste their precious lives
by fastening their attention on television,
popular culture and social sites on the internet,
so that they are 'boxed' and no threat to those
who take their blood and treasure so to speak.

There are those of course who do not fit this
mold on ATS.

Kev

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Jenisiz

All in all, you have grasped the tactic but fail to understand the depth of the program.

For which you have exactly ZERO proof other than your opinion.

I have said for years on ATS that there is no need for disinfo agents because the crazies provide their own disinformation believing it to be real and bring enough discredit to the issues to render the field completely nuts anyway. If I were God of the Disinfo Program you so assuredly believe exists, my tactic would be to leave sites like this alone because they are their own worst enemies. It's simply not necessary to attempt to disrupt something that is so inherently messed up already. It would be a complete waste of taxpayer dollars.

Well said. I would also add that the problem has got considerably worse in the last few years. I suspect in no part to the "googlisation" of the internet. Now all the crazies type a search into google and up comes ATS at the top. Gone are the days of the crazies websites.....which kept them out of harms way feeding off each others paranoia. They've all joined ATS and diluted what was once a decent discussion site! Now the moment you disgree with the latest off the wall theory (backed up by ZERO evidence, hence disagreement) you are instantly labelled a "disinfo agent" or "a government troll" or "sheepie".

I've always wondered if ATS could have a "follow up" section where major topics are re-visited 6 ,12, 24 months later and the end result of the situation re-assessed. E.g. Comets that turned out to really be balls of ice and not a spaceship from Nibiru heralding the end of the world. Or the world still being here 24 montsh after the absolute certainty of a NK-Russian world war III scenario!!!

I think it would very interesting to summarise the language used and aggressive nonsense that typically accompanies the "crazy posts" well after they were shown to be totally off the wall imagination.

originally posted by: Xarian6

I just want answers to many things that don't have answers in known science, or do but they won't tell us because it "a secret" (and on that.. here on ATS, there are many posts by aviation folks that hint at NDA's and things flying around that are ours but are super secret tech.. even a mod..)

How do you know what is a secret? A lot of people label the lack of information (to back up the crazy theory) as due to secrecy. Which is a circular argument. We know that the military have secrets. We know they will use disinformation. But we also know the likely limits of that secrecy. On top of this we can apply logic. For example, why would aliens only ever the visit the US and thus all the evidence is a secret held by US authorities? The US (from an alien persepective) is a small fraction of the earth. If an alien was to observe Earth they would also note the large number of dangerous vehicles hovering around US airspace !!!!! So an alien is more likely to land elsewhere and thus be seen by less secretive and paranoid military. The evidence (or rather reliable evidence) of alien visitation lies OUTSIDE the US.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Jenisiz

Hey ZetaRediculian, BX is just a shortened way to say Behavioral. I spent several years as a Behavioral Therapist for both Government's private sector and Non-profit agencies.

Thought so. But when you google "BX Therapist", you really do get a bunch links to therapists in "da Bronx". Might confuse people around here. I have been enjoying your contributions. Hope you stick around.

Like wise ZetaRediculian

Everyone has great points in here. I think the skeptics such as myself help the movement in conjunction with the believers. It's just throwing the disinfo line out there at every person with a different belief system is poor debating. If I was a disinfo agent, your case should still be solid to challenge all other info in the first place or at least cast doubt on the "real" story.

The skeptic is heavily outnumbered here, but due to the quality of reports lately, we seem to be present in every thread...doesn't mean we're just waiting to disprove someone. We're looking for answers to finally say "at last, I know the truth".

originally posted by: kwakakev
Looking for certainty in a world full of doubt is not easy. In this digital age trust is a very big issue everywhere, even highly respected documents like Obama's birth certificate raise inconsistencies and questions of authenticity. Internet forums like ATS do provide a good platform for robust discussion and debate on the many matters. As for getting to the truth it can take a lot of time, effort and resources through a very politically challenged environment like the MH17 crash in Ukraine as one example.

As for how the internet continues to evolve towards enhancing our decision making ability is something I am interested in. Your perceptions towards human behavior on the UFO forum describes a typical bipolar political environment. Those with the more extremist views tend to be the loudest and more emotionally charged towards the subject.

In an environment where there are two main competing ideologies with a lot of complicated and case by case detail, how do we make it better?

I believe we could make things better by simply understanding the proof shouldn't be up for interpretation. X should always be x. Not x that can be interpreted as y or z. Having a photo of a ufo (hopefully not tampered with) should be proof of a ufo... not a breakaway civilization fighting with members at dulce. Over exaggeration is just as much a plague here as a hoax.