Western Christian stereotyping of Islam is at best, ignorant, and more likely hypocritical and bigot

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: babloyi
a reply to: WarminIndy
Join up? Join up what? Islam? Yeah, because OF COURSE every convert did it for that. It is almost like you went to and got straight As in Hate-Islam Propaganda school.

I'd be amazed if you found even a single muslim convert who joined up because they "get 72 virgins in heaven". Interestingly enough, particularly in Europe, the vast majority of converts are local women (and no, before you say "they were forced to marry muslim men", conversion to Islam is not a requirement for women who want to marry muslim men).

What were you promised for converting?

Surely these people weren't convinced that no drinking is the prime reward of converting.

How much are you paid for posting?


Or are you seriously that much of a confrontational troll just posting to get the other poster to have a raised blood pressure?

And don't worry I see the irony of asking you that, I am confrontational and have been called and could be seen as a troll so I had to ask.

a reply to: babloyi

Honestly?
A belief system more meaningful than one that tries to legitimise and justify the brutal blood sacrifice of a completely innocent man to self-fulfill some made up rule.

What were YOU promised?

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God..He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 1John5

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 1Corinthians2

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Hebrews9

And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Romans4

2 Corinthians 5 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Romans7

Hebrews 7 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens

Revelation 21 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew10

a reply to: WarminIndy

If I were tomorrow to join a group that I KNEW was preaching hatred and violence, then I should be as guilty as all in the group, because I KNEW what the group believed.

Are you not preaching this right now? You are, at the very least - aiding and abetting those that are

Enough whitewashing (ha!) - here's a book for you Warminindy:
Excerpted from “An Indigenous Peoples’ History of the United States” by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz (Beacon Press, 2014).

The peoples of the Bikini Atoll in the South Pacific and Puerto Rico’s Vieques Island are perhaps the best-known examples, but there were also the Inughuit of Thule, Greenland, and the thousands of Okinawans and Indigenous peoples of Micronesia. During the harsh deportation of the Micronesians in the 1970s, the press took some notice. In response to one reporter’s question, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said of the Micronesians: “There are only ninety thousand people out there. Who gives a damn?” This is a statement of permissive genocide.

Between 1968 and 1973, the United States and Britain, the latter the colonial administrator, forcibly removed the indigenous inhabitants of the islands, the Chagossians. Most of the two thousand deportees ended up more than a thousand miles away in Mauritius and the Seychelles, where they were thrown into lives of poverty and forgotten. The purpose of this expulsion was to create a major U.S. military base on one of the Chagossian islands, Diego Garcia. As if being rounded up and removed from their homelands in the name of global security were not cruel enough, before being deported the Chagossians had to watch as British agents and U.S. troops herded their pet dogs into sealed sheds where they were gassed and burned.

Two excerpts from recent history - though the book pretty much covers it all - from the beginning

And look! I didn't even have to go after any Christians to make my point, which is this: Mankind is capable of some hateful, vile, twisted things. Man's inhumanity towards man isn't really easily broken up into us and them - because it is both us and them

And yet - it's not all of us, is it?

Your posts in this thread should embarrass you - they easily fall into the hateful, vile and bigoted category. You go after an entire people as if you were some sort of expert - and you would easily carry on as if you were doing the world a favor

Don't do us any favors

a reply to: InhaleExhale

Why do so many members post like they took a hard blow to head and they have no intelligence what so ever? Is this thread about converting anyone? Are there no American Muslims? If so why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the States, how can it be if there are no American Muslims? With stupidity that I have witnessed in my life and stupidity witnessed here on ATS I am ashamed to be human

Some people are Americans and some people just live in America. Yes this thread is about conversion in sympathy towards Muslims. That is its foremost inferred purpose. Firstly, if one is an American then they are an American first above all other identification. Not Christian or Muslim or Jew or any other such allegiance. Simply love America and its freedom that it offers. Secondly, it is a fact that this forum alone has hundreds of more Christian critics than any other religious allegiance on ATS.

Islam is not the fastest nor greater growing religion in America.

wikiislam.net...

After you read facts you may change your mind about who is stupid and when you infer that you are well above the less intelligent ATS people then the water becomes a little cloudy.

originally posted by: Seede
Some people are Americans and some people just live in America. Yes this thread is about conversion in sympathy towards Muslims. That is its foremost inferred purpose. Firstly, if one is an American then they are an American first above all other identification. Not Christian or Muslim or Jew or any other such allegiance. Simply love America and its freedom that it offers.

Yes, because it is a disgrace that everyone doesn't automatically hate all muslims, you must fight to change that!
Also, interesting your claim about being an american. Most Christians agree with that, until it comes to the point where they disagree with it:
American First or Christian?
(sorry for the link, I can't find a way to embed with skipping to a specific time. The entire video is quite interesting in its bigotry, but people might get bored with having to sit through it)

originally posted by: InhaleExhale

originally posted by: SomePeople
a reply to: babloyi

Dude. You don't see athiests making girls burn alive for not wearing baseball caps. Stop playing around and just get used to the fact that religion is destructive and must be #ing stopped.

How about getting used to the fact that its people not religion that are destructive, people interpretation and actions that destructive.

Seeing as people created religion and run it, you're right. But we can't wipe out humanity - can we? Until a better option comes along, I'll have religion sqaure in my sights.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey Romans6

1 John 3 ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.
www.thereligionofpeace.com...

originally posted by: Rustami
Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

So when the bible calls for violence, it doesn't count, but when the Quran calls for peace, it doesn't count? Nice!

Some interesting passages from the Bible, since you like quoting it so much:

When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, and the Girga#es and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them” (Deuteronomy 7:1-2)

"But these are all referring to tribes that no longer exist!" I hear you say. Okay, so what about the other tribes, then?

When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you. Thus you shall do to all the cities that are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations nearby. Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD your God has commanded you. (Deuteronomy 20:10-17).

Sounds pretty open-ended and eternal to me. Then we have some nice Battle Psalms for Christians and Jews to sing while slaughtering the heathens:
"The righteous will be glad when they see vengeance, when they bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked." (Psalms 58:10), “Strike all my enemies on the jaw; break the teeth of the wicked” (Psalms 3:7), “Strike them with terror” (Psalms 9:20), “let death seize my enemies” (Psalms 55:15), “trample our enemies” (Psalms 60:120), “destroy them!” (Psalms 74:11), “terrify them” (Psalms 83:15), and “let them perish in disgrace” (Psalms 83:17), and of course, the famous one about blessing those who smash heathen baby heads on the rocks (do I need to give a reference? ).
And before you say "But that is God doing it all, not people!", there is this, then:

18:34
He teaches my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by my arms.
You have given me your shield of victory. Your right hand supports me; your help has made me great.
You broaden the path beneath me, so that my ankles do not turn.
I will pursue my enemies and overtake them; I will not turn back till they are destroyed.
I will smite them through, so that they shall not be able to rise: They shall fall under my feet.
18:39 You have armed me with strength for the battle; you have subdued my enemies under my feet. (Psalms 18:34-39)

The final argument then that Christians give (condemning their jewish brothers by abandoning the Old Testament) is "Yeah, but that is the OT, it doesn't count anymore". Except...well, Jesus isn't any nicer in the NT. When he returns, it'll be bringing God's vengeance, there's going to be bloodshed, he'll be leading armies, killing all the leaders, slaughtering so many that every people will mourn, at which point he'll rule with an iron rod.

No wonder the God of the Bible is a War God. You never figured out what "Lord of the Hosts" means?

Please keep in mind, my intention is not to discredit or attack Christianity, it is just to point out the fallacy of "Our violent verses don't count, they're bound by historical context and descriptive and not prescriptive, and not open-ended", yet when someone says the same thing about the Quran, then they're ignored.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

a reply to: babloyi

I'm keenly aware of the meanings and are you seriously attempting to accuse Jesus of something here? Wasn't that attempted already and yet a murderer was chosen instead or someone who came in his own name as in not from heaven?

John 3 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

earth and heaven would be the clues here

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Revelation 12

And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation19

again

Matthew 10 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ephesians 6 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

"Muhammad is a narcissist, a pedophile, a mass murderer,
a terrorist, a misogynist, a lecher, a cult leader, a madman
a rapist, a torturer, an assassin and a looter."
Former Muslim Ali Sinawww.thereligionofpeace.com...

“Islam is a religion of peace”. This is what our politically correct politicians keep telling us. But what is politically correct is not necessarily correct. The truth is that Islam is not a religion of peace. It is a religion of hate, of terror and of war. A thorough study of the Quran and Hadith reveal an Islam that is not being presented honestly by the Muslim propagandists and is not known to the majority of the people of the world including Muslim themselves. www.faithfreedom.org...

The historical Muhammad was the savage leader of a gang of robbers from Medina. Without scruples they looted, raped and murdered. The sources describe orgies of savagery where hundreds of people’s throats were cut, hands and feet chopped off, eyes cut out, entire tribes massacred. www.frontpagemag.com...

The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. Matthew10

and yes there is an absolute distinct difference in the New Testament

for these are the two covenants Galatians4

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second..In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews8

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Umm, I wouldn't know anything about that, would I?

And notice that not one single time in my post have I preached anything remotely Christian, only that I was cursed by two Pakistani MUSLIM men who wanted me to embrace the Ayatollah's mad rantings about women.

I'm a woman, do you think I have less intelligence than a man and that if I were attacked, would my testimony carry half the weight of a man?

When you are able to justify the burning of 275 little girls to death, get back with me.

a reply to: babloyi

AND just when was the Quran written?

Remind us again.

Oh that's right, UTHMAN burned half of it before compiling it with only the verses he chose. Yes, Mohammed authored the Quran, yeah, uh huh. Nope, UTHMAN was responsible for that. So if you want to argue about the actual verses, show us the actual verses from Mohammed. Can you do that?

Nope, impossible. There isn't a single word in the Quran that comes from Mohammed, because Uthman took care of that little problem.

How do I know this? Oh, the Quran, Hadiths, Sunna and Islamic historians. The worst thing you can do is believe your opponent is stupid. Remember Sigismund of Hungary? He ripped Hungary right out of the hands of Muslims. How did Muslims get control of Hungary?

Let me ask this though, just who was it that Charles Martel stopped outside of Paris? Oh yes, Muslim invaders. You've been fighting this war since the 640s and the Golden Age of Islam is over. Don't pretend we are the ignorant ones, we've been dealing with this since then. But hey, if you don't believe me, how about George Fox's Letter To the Turks?

To the great Turk and King at Algiers: together with a Postscript of George Pattison's capturing the Turks, and freeing them on their own shore.

In the name of the Great God, and Lord, creator and king of all things, in heaven and earth, do I write unto you. And I do take Enoch, Noah, Abraham, and Lot, and Isaac, and Jacob, and Joseph, and Moses, and David, and all the prophets of the great and most high, dreadful and terrible God, who is a consuming fire to the wicked, and John, as you say in your Koran, page 30, chapter xxxiii.—I say, John the son of Zachariah, that did affirm Christ to be the Messiah, and to be the word of God, that great and chaste just prophet, and Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, with all his holy apostles, and your own Mahomet and your Koran, to be witness against you, and some of your practices that are practised among you, at the dreadful day of judgment of the great God, when you shall all give an account of your words, deeds, and actions, and be rewarded; who will reward every man according to his works, whether they are good or evil. For I say of a truth, that the great God and Lord of heaven and earth, and all things therein, is no respecter of persons, but in every nation, he that fears God, and works righteousness, is accepted of him.

George Fox knew your Quran.

Did ever Mahomet give you authority to rob, spoil, and take the goods of those who do you no harm, and keep captives the bodies of them, and sell them; or to beat upon the feet, belly, or back, them which are so taken, to make them promise more money for their ransoms than they are able; or to beat upon the feet with one, or two, or three hundred blows, and hang up by the heels, and beat them which you have taken captives, because they refuse to lie with your men, as a man lieth with a woman. And is it not contrary to your very wild bulls, horses, rams, and he-goats, and other wild creatures and brute beasts?

Same thing going on today. And you would have us believe that we are ignorant of Islam.

a reply to: WarminIndy

And notice that not one single time in my post have I preached anything remotely Christian

What does that matter? Non of this is quid pro quo - that's kind of my point. Not that you're here to pay attention to anyone's point...

But, just in case you might still take this seriously and reply in kind rather than rant and froth and disparage, the point would be that there are individuals and groups in the past and present that do horrible things. All sorts - all over - for all kinds of reasons

America has done some seriously nasty stuff - and is committing crimes even now. Do you give us a pass?

We could easily make a case for the Iraq invasion being a Christian invasion if we go by your reasoning. I'm pretty sure some Christians were involved. These crimes of ours are made possible by fear mongering and the encouragement of rabid, mindless hate. This is your campaign - you've clearly embraced it - and so all Christians would then be monsters. All of them. Every last one

Get back with you you say? When I can justify what?

Umm, I wouldn't know anything about that, would I?

Know anything about what WarminIndy? :-)

Go ahead - let's just see what's what

a reply to: babloyi

So when the bible calls for violence, it doesn't count, but when the Quran calls for peace, it doesn't count? Nice! Some interesting passages from the Bible, since you like quoting it so much: Sounds pretty open-ended and eternal to me. Then we have some nice Battle Psalms for Christians and Jews to sing while slaughtering the heathens: "The righteous will be glad when they see vengeance, when they bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked." (Psalms 58:10), “Strike all my enemies on the jaw; break the teeth of the wicked” (Psalms 3:7), “Strike them with terror” (Psalms 9:20), “let death seize my enemies” (Psalms 55:15), “trample our enemies” (Psalms 60:120), “destroy them!” (Psalms 74:11), “terrify them” (Psalms 83:15), and “let them perish in disgrace” (Psalms 83:17), and of course, the famous one about blessing those who smash heathen baby heads on the

No actions of the dead should be accountable to the living. All people who have ever lived are guilty of sin but they are only accountable for their own transgressions and not of their fathers. You can not justly judge the dead. They have already been judged and their deeds are already counted.

What you have chosen from the Hebrew literature is not accounted to Christianity when Christianity did not even exist at the time of this literature which you show. What you have shown is to judge the God of the Hebrews who became the same God of the Christians but this is not to say that both Hebrews and Christians have the same covenants.

You can not show any Greek or Hebrew literature that shows the Christ Jesus of the Christians as in any agreement to the death or harm of any people. The doctrine of Christ Jesus is not marred with any violence whatsoever. His covenant with the Hebrew God is the umbrella of Christianity and He sealed this covenant with His blood. The new covenant that exists today with the Christian God is incompatible with that of the Muslim Allah. The god of the Muslims promotes death and destruction while the God of Christianity does not promote death and destruction.

Now this is not to say that there are some in this world who claim Christianity but bring death and destruction. Those are not Christians but are wolves in sheep clothing. The OT God had a covenant with the Hebrew tribes and these people were put into laws of agreement between God and themselves. Christians are not bound by these laws but accept them through love of Christ Jesus and His covenant. True Christianity is Jew and Gentile , slaves and free, men and women equal in the eyes of God. All are born into one spirit. Show me one other doctrine that is like this of Christ Jesus.

a reply to: Seede

Moderate Muslims believe all the same things moderate Christians do though. Basically every religion has at its core "we're all human and should love each other". I believe all the core teachings of Jesus but I'm no longer Christian. I learned the morals from my Catholic parents (who still believe and pray but stopped going to church for the most part) and I live them every day.

Religion is pointless now. Compassion, empathy, and the acceptance of the oneness of the universe backed by science and technology are the way forward. All the political and religious establishments were designed for a world of insufficient resources and conflicting tribes.

We have the resources now. All we have to do is stop promoting pointless divisiveness. No nation or religion is inherently evil. No person is inherently evil. Please accept what Jesus and thousands of other religious and political leaders have said all along. Love others as yourself.

Every religion believes they are the true religion. They can't all be right and I bet dollars to donuts that most are Christian here and they believe Islam is wrong. So it grants them the right to criticize Islam. If you criticize Islam those radicals might get you. Danish cartoons come to mind.

It seems it takes a lot of guts to stand up to these radical Muslims by the moderate ones. Therefore my guess is the radical ones are going to win out. You may want to take a look at this video by a Muslim doctor about the third jihad and see if any of it rings true in the US or the UK. Take what you will from the two clips from the movie.

a reply to: Rustami

Don't give me the run around with quoted scripture... Paganism is riddled all through the New Testament.. Heres an example..



Your 3 Kings who followed the star in the East to get to the Sun of God... The quicker that book of black magic is exposed the better...

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Anyone who isn't Muslim is a dirty, filthy and worthless Kafir.

This coming form even moderate Muslims.

Who are the bigots??

a reply to: Rustami
I'm not accusing Jesus of anything. I quoted directly from the Bible, what God wanted done to the heathens, and what Jesus plans to do to the heathens when he returns (kill them all and oppress them).

a reply to: WarminIndy

originally posted by: WarminIndy
AND just when was the Quran written?

Remind us again.

Oh that's right, UTHMAN burned half of it before compiling it with only the verses he chose. Yes, Mohammed authored the Quran, yeah, uh huh. Nope, UTHMAN was responsible for that. So if you want to argue about the actual verses, show us the actual verses from Mohammed. Can you do that?

Nope, impossible. There isn't a single word in the Quran that comes from Mohammed, because Uthman took care of that little problem.

...Wut? I think your history metre is a bit broken. Are you trying to be obtuse just for the sake of winning an argument now? Do you really need someone to start talking about the absolute mess that the historicity of the Christian scriptures is in?
WHATEVER THE CASE (that being a topic for a completely different thread that you seem to be trying to diverge this one into), the Quran as it is is accepted by all muslims, so the excuse "WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE ORIGINAL IS, HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY RULES?!" is frankly silly.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
You've been fighting this war since the 640s and the Golden Age of Islam is over. Don't pretend we are the ignorant ones, we've been dealing with this since then. But hey, if you don't believe me, how about George Fox's Letter To the Turks?

I'm sorry, you must have me confused with someone else. I wasn't alive in 640, and I'm not Turkish, and I know nothing of who George Foreman is (did he invent the grill?). If you wish to speak of the Quran, speak of it directly. Instead now, you're doing some 3rd level hearsay stereotyping...
Interesting you answered none of the questions in my previous post, yet you claim not to be ignorant.

a reply to: Seede

originally posted by: Seede
What you have chosen from the Hebrew literature is not accounted to Christianity when Christianity did not even exist at the time of this literature which you show. What you have shown is to judge the God of the Hebrews who became the same God of the Christians but this is not to say that both Hebrews and Christians have the same covenants.

You can not show any Greek or Hebrew literature that shows the Christ Jesus of the Christians as in any agreement to the death or harm of any people. The doctrine of Christ Jesus is not marred with any violence whatsoever.

So what you're saying is that God required extreme violence before (and made no mention of stopping that requirement), but now he doesn't? Is this due to some personality disorder or something? Are you okay with commanded genocide because it was a phase God was going through?

Also, I think you missed where I quoted from the Bible, all the wonderful things Jesus was going to do when he returns (kill all the heathens and oppress them).

a reply to: Ironclad2000

The bigots are the bigots. They exist in every culture and religion......

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Umm, yeah. EVERYONE in the American military is Christian.....uh huh. There are Muslims in the American military as well as Jews, atheists, Wiccans, Satan worshipers, agnostics....being Christian isn't a requirement for joining the military.

But there you have people who slide across borders to join paramilitary factions and train at camps for the sole purpose of jihad. Tell us all, how many Christians are in Mecca right now, at that this moment? How many Christians are in the jihadi paramilitary training camps? Oh, not a single Christian in either place?

Get back with me when you find a Christian or Jew in those training camps.