Western Christian stereotyping of Islam is at best, ignorant, and more likely hypocritical and bigot

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: BlackManINC

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all worship the same God. The differences are cultural. It's like saying Catholics and Protestants worship a different God. There are thousands of Christian sects so don't act like Christianity is any better. I would expect less bigotry from an African American. You enjoy the benefits of overgeneralizing people and culture every day. The programming is strong in you.

Judaism and Christianity worships the same God, I don't know what god Muslims worship, but it is made abundantly clear in their "holy book" that it certainly is not Yahweh. Yes, my faith in the real God of Israel is strong in me. I enjoy the benefits of pointing out the obvious, that nothing about Islams basic doctrines screams Christianity. If you want to call it overgeneralizing then that's your problem.

The fear of the Lord is to hate evil Proverbs8

3 John 1 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

John 15 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

John 17 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 7world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

more corruption-

In this lesson we will show you, mostly in their own words and pictures, just exactly what the goal of Islam really is. We will not defame, demean or otherwise say anything that is not true about the position they hold. We will show you their words, photos of them in "action", and let you make up your mind about what Islam is really all about.www.nowtheendbegins.com...#

Then the Messenger of God said, "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken." (The History of al-Tabari, Vol. 6, pages 108-111)

Question: If Muhammad could not tell when Satan was giving him revelation, why should we believe anything that was revealed to him?radicaltruth.net...

false?

but atheistic Stalinism/communism is a relatively new phenomenon—about a century old—and, over the years, its rule (if not variants of its ideology) has greatly waned, so that only a handful of nations today are communist.

On the other hand, “roving extremist groups” (also known in other contexts and countries as “Islamists,” “terrorists,” “mujahidin,” “mobs,” “radicals,” “people-with-grievances,” etc.) attacking and killing “infidel” Christians have been around since the dawn of Islam. It is a well-documented, even if suppressed, history.www.raymondibrahim.com...

a reply to: babloyi

What part of the member's sane, rational words are you finding difficult to comprehend?

a reply to: Rustami

I understand what is written in the Bible and some of it I do agree with also but it cannot be ignored that the Bible was and continues to be compromised and that is something that Christians need to get through their skulls.... The word of God is meant to be uncorruptable and I do not see that when it comes to the Bible I'm sorry to say.

a reply to: EaglesFan

the New Testament is overwhelmingly accurate in it's witness even to the sound of the spelling of the name of Jesus

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.John5

Revelation 19 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

No book can bleed or audibly speak yet the information within is verbatim correct about the eternal living One who did, does and always will as well as many more things

To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually

For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens Hebrews 7

a reply to: Rustami

Do you accept that there are books which should be considered canon, but were removed for political reasons?

a reply to: SomePeople

I accept this-

Ecclesiastes 12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

John 21 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

ha

And see no need, my testimony and visit by the Lord Jesus was directly relative to opening just the cover of a Gideon New Testament, will any writings in any book exceed that or anything else in all creation for that matter? Understand I didn't read about Jesus and saying that is how I heard Him, He invisibly audibly spoke to me before reading anything yet I cannot discount the opening of it being directly related and further see no problem with it.

What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans8

a reply to: BlackManINC

Dude you've obviously never read the bible cover to cover. Do I have to start pulling out bible quotes to prove my point like in that other ridiculous anti gay thread?

The old testament which is canon in Judaism and Christianity is absolutely riddled with ridiculous violent statements.

Here's just one. If you need more there's hundreds I can quote.

Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish. (Judges 18:27-29 NLT)

So essentially it's totally fine to slaughter a peaceful village wholesale and then rebuild it to live in. Nothing makes a home cozy like the blood of innocents right?

a reply to: Rustami

Oh my god, that's right - jesus spoke to you.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Septimus

Bush's Iraq war was a crusade. You bought the propaganda but then again so did everyone else. The motivation was oil but it was still a Christian crusade. Read the link. Most people don't know this gem.

www.theguardian.com...

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all filled with death and hatred. Modern Jews and Christians just cherry pick their bible points.

To illustrate :

1)Every Christians favorite anti gay verse.

"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." -Leviticus 20:13

2) Guess we need to kill more adulterers

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife – with the wife of his neighbor – both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death." -Leviticus 20:19

3) Slaves are cool just make sure they're foreign

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves." - Leviticus 25:19

4) It's legit to rape a slave just not cool

"If a man sleeps with a female slave who is promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed." -Leviticus 19:20

There's tons of other way worse stuff in the bible like killing your own relatives if they stray from the faith, but I focused on Leviticus since people cherry pick the anti gay quote all the time. Kinda hard to tell me that we all know some of it is archaic and we don't use that anymore when people do.

The best part is how you absolve Christianity of all guilt by attributing the actions of its people as products of secular society when extremist Muslims are for the most part extremist out of desperation because a bunch of foreigners control their societies and abuse them. The double standard is pretty fierce. When Muslims do wrong it's their religion at fault. When Christians do wrong it's got nothing to do with religion. Yet America specifically is constantly talking about how Christian it is.

Can't wait for the defensive responses. I love how in denial most Westerners are. It's really tough to take responsibility for your actions but that's part of being an adult. America's still an angsty teen though.

You`re comparing verses in the bible written Millennia ago to real life atrocities committed by Muslims today. You sound like a little kid saying that Christianity isn't blamed for Christian misdeeds but Islam is always blamed as the cause for Muslim atrocities. This could be because when they are beheading children and raping the men and women they are screaming ALLAH AKBAR. Maybe I need to watch more MSNBC because I HAVENT seen any Christians beheading anyone,or even saying it's ok to do so.You've learned that here in the politically correct west that if you yell the loudest and make false accusations of Islamaphobia you'll get what you want just so you'll shut up.After a while you lose all appreciation for the host country that let your begging ass in and gave you a fresh start and you start to resemble a parrot, just making noise to earn a cracker,living off the the govt. dole and being a unappreciative twat complaining out loud how every little thing is offensive to you.
Hey I know! Let's compare modern day atrocities being committed by each other's religions! Now we both know how your initial instinct will be to fly back in time 1000 YEARS and start bitching about the crusades because that's where your meat and potatoes are, but I live in the here and now and am concerned only with what's happening in today's world.Go ahead and make your list of recent atrocities committed in the name of Christianity,I'll wait. Afterwards I'll make my list of recent atrocities committed in the name of Islam,and I'll also give you the percentage of Muslims polled in various countries that consent to sharia law and some of the basic tenants of Islam.
This will be fun!(Mods, how many pages will my response be limited to?)

a reply to: fartsmeller46

Before I get into the meat of this response I do want to point out that I'm American born and raised. I pay my taxes and have never used any sort of welfare or government support in my life besides chump change from Fafsa. I'm white and raised Catholic though now I'm agnostic (please look up the difference between agnostic and atheist before your next rant). My agnosticism is due to seeing the hypocrisy of most Christians in America. I have an abundance of back up for my views including one absolutely mind blowing insider story that made the news but most probably do not know. Anyways I digress. The point is it's pretty hilarious how you implied I'm a Muslim immigrant on welfare when that literally could not be farther from the truth.

That post of mine you quoted was to show how Judaism and Christianity both have violence in their scriptures since so many people use the Quran as justification. It's not fair for me to use the bible when Christians use the Quran? I know many do not believe everything in the bible but people do cherry pick verses they like from these same archaic texts such as the ones that support homophobia. Also a solid chunk of Christians do claim to believe the bible is 100% true and 100% undeniable word of God but I know most don't actually mean it since they clearly haven't read the bible cover to cover.

I like how you want me to list Christian atrocities so we can have some sort of religious violence dick measuring contest on the internet. They do exist, as do atrocities from Buddhism, Hinduism, atheism, nationalism or pretty much every ism. These non Muslim atrocities are usually entirely absent from mainstream media. If they do make the news they are always framed as non representative of their ideology or religion. They are rebels or cults or insane individuals or tribal groups. When a Christian does something terrible it is never allowed to blame Christianity. This is because the media is bought and paid for. Drumming up Muslim hatred and ignoring or toning down any hint of American/Western/Christian corruption is not beneficial to the goals of the ruling corporatocracy

Either way thanks for writing a biased and hateful attack on me and Muslims. You are proving the point me and others are making. When you let the propaganda completely drench your brain you lose the ability to think freely and become a machine driven by emotion based inputs alone. You are the model citizen of a corrupt, failed America.

originally posted by: tavi45
I'm white and raised Catholic though now I'm agnostic (please look up the difference between agnostic and atheist before your next rant).

You're agnostic about what? the existence of god?

Then you lack belief in a god, and are an atheist......try to get over the stigma that may be attached to that label.

I agree with many in this thread in regards to the hypocritical standards the west has when dealing with Muslims.

However, I ask the Muslims in this thread: What is the punishment for apostasy in Islam?

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I disagree



And I am no fan of Bill Maher either, but it is what it is, when the hard truth is spoken in these terms.
The strongest point is that culturally many people of Islam support killing "Apostates" and this is sanctioned by some governments. Any Muslim that thinks this way, even if they never express it, is radical.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I must strongly disagree with the political ideology that is inherent within Islam, like I said, if they could remove that politicization then I have no problem with them expressing their religious views.

The whole problem is with the political issues, the numerous human rights violations, the continual extortion over subjected people within Islamic countries. THIS is the problem that NEEDS to be addressed and the failure to do so only causes more people to be injured under this banner.

Who are you trying to convince WarminIndy? Me - or yourself?

Those crimes you've listed - I'm against them just as much as you are. Because they are crimes - not because they were committed by Muslims

You can doctor your motives up any way you want in one post, but the bulk of your posts are venomous - and, as I said - you don't care who you hurt in the long run

Your posts are filled with anti-Muslim rhetoric. You try to pick apart the Koran as if it is the problem - and all the Muslims in the world are the problem

You never once answered a single question I asked you - which tells me your motives won't hold up under examination and you aren't being honest

You can't fix the world by spewing more hate into it. You also can't fix it by not being objective

If you were really interested in righting wrongs - you wouldn't be targeting Muslims

No, we hate what Muslims are getting by with by those who are too afraid to say a word.

Indeed. Seems to me some things are all too obvious

No, many anti-Islam people cite the violent passages in the Koran. So when I or others throw back the violent passages in the Bible, we are doing the exact same thing and showing that the Bible has them too. A specific topic.

Second, many of you seem to not be applying the same standard to yourselves or the West.

Again, Christian violence is NOT something of the past.

Remember, George Bush Jr. said he followed Jesus and went on to author two wars, including the Iraq War that killed 200,000 civilians, and instituted torture.

Now many people then say "but he wasn't really a Christian" or "those aren't 'Christian' actions." The exact same arguments can be applied to extremist Muslims who engage in violence. That is what you aren't getting.

And let me repeat one more time, George Bush, a Christian, authored a war that killed 200,000 CIVILIANS.

originally posted by: fartsmeller46

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Septimus

Bush's Iraq war was a crusade. You bought the propaganda but then again so did everyone else. The motivation was oil but it was still a Christian crusade. Read the link. Most people don't know this gem.

www.theguardian.com...

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all filled with death and hatred. Modern Jews and Christians just cherry pick their bible points.

To illustrate :

1)Every Christians favorite anti gay verse.

"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." -Leviticus 20:13

2) Guess we need to kill more adulterers

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife – with the wife of his neighbor – both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death." -Leviticus 20:19

3) Slaves are cool just make sure they're foreign

"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves." - Leviticus 25:19

4) It's legit to rape a slave just not cool

"If a man sleeps with a female slave who is promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed." -Leviticus 19:20

There's tons of other way worse stuff in the bible like killing your own relatives if they stray from the faith, but I focused on Leviticus since people cherry pick the anti gay quote all the time. Kinda hard to tell me that we all know some of it is archaic and we don't use that anymore when people do.

The best part is how you absolve Christianity of all guilt by attributing the actions of its people as products of secular society when extremist Muslims are for the most part extremist out of desperation because a bunch of foreigners control their societies and abuse them. The double standard is pretty fierce. When Muslims do wrong it's their religion at fault. When Christians do wrong it's got nothing to do with religion. Yet America specifically is constantly talking about how Christian it is.

Can't wait for the defensive responses. I love how in denial most Westerners are. It's really tough to take responsibility for your actions but that's part of being an adult. America's still an angsty teen though.

You`re comparing verses in the bible written Millennia ago to real life atrocities committed by Muslims today. You sound like a little kid saying that Christianity isn't blamed for Christian misdeeds but Islam is always blamed as the cause for Muslim atrocities. This could be because when they are beheading children and raping the men and women they are screaming ALLAH AKBAR. Maybe I need to watch more MSNBC because I HAVENT seen any Christians beheading anyone,or even saying it's ok to do so.You've learned that here in the politically correct west that if you yell the loudest and make false accusations of Islamaphobia you'll get what you want just so you'll shut up.After a while you lose all appreciation for the host country that let your begging ass in and gave you a fresh start and you start to resemble a parrot, just making noise to earn a cracker,living off the the govt. dole and being a unappreciative twat complaining out loud how every little thing is offensive to you.
Hey I know! Let's compare modern day atrocities being committed by each other's religions! Now we both know how your initial instinct will be to fly back in time 1000 YEARS and start bitching about the crusades because that's where your meat and potatoes are, but I live in the here and now and am concerned only with what's happening in today's world.Go ahead and make your list of recent atrocities committed in the name of Christianity,I'll wait. Afterwards I'll make my list of recent atrocities committed in the name of Islam,and I'll also give you the percentage of Muslims polled in various countries that consent to sharia law and some of the basic tenants of Islam.
This will be fun!(Mods, how many pages will my response be limited to?)

I respect your right to have religious beliefs. But there is nothing that makes Christianity inherently better than Islam. In fact, both Judaism and Islam are closer to each other theologically and better in my view because they have a rationale viewpoint. Neither state that all people are condemned and unable to be good in God's eyes. That is a uniquely Christian irrational view.

originally posted by: BlackManINC

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: BlackManINC

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all worship the same God. The differences are cultural. It's like saying Catholics and Protestants worship a different God. There are thousands of Christian sects so don't act like Christianity is any better. I would expect less bigotry from an African American. You enjoy the benefits of overgeneralizing people and culture every day. The programming is strong in you.

Judaism and Christianity worships the same God, I don't know what god Muslims worship, but it is made abundantly clear in their "holy book" that it certainly is not Yahweh. Yes, my faith in the real God of Israel is strong in me. I enjoy the benefits of pointing out the obvious, that nothing about Islams basic doctrines screams Christianity. If you want to call it overgeneralizing then that's your problem.

I agree with you 100%.

Most of the people that are vitriolic towards Islam are just brainwashed by the government and media and really don't have a viewpoint based on personal experience or deep study.

originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

IMHO, its not "Western Christians" demonizing some group (in this case Moslems), its Western governments unrelated to religion.

You have to realize, Moslems are the new boogeymen (the brown scare). During the "cold war", it was the red scare.

Its standard operating procedure.

These governments need a constant enemy. It helps to justify the hundreds of billions of dollars spent on the Military Industrial Complex. Its to the point now where they actually have to create the groups (ISUS, al-CIAeda etc.).

It also allows them to exert control over their populations. Fear = control.

I am not really down with orthodox religion or fundamentalism in any form anymore, but that includes Judaism and Christianity, not just Islam.

It is one thing for someone to call out the failure of most religions and religious people to be peaceful or meet the claimed mandates of behavior. It is entirely another to single out a religion and pretend that western religion is beyond reproach.

I am not saying that you made the second type of statement. I'm just saying from my perspective.

originally posted by: SomePeople

originally posted by: InhaleExhale

originally posted by: SomePeople
a reply to: babloyi

Dude. You don't see athiests making girls burn alive for not wearing baseball caps. Stop playing around and just get used to the fact that religion is destructive and must be #ing stopped.

How about getting used to the fact that its people not religion that are destructive, people interpretation and actions that destructive.

Seeing as people created religion and run it, you're right. But we can't wipe out humanity - can we? Until a better option comes along, I'll have religion sqaure in my sights.

Very good post and rebuttal.

originally posted by: babloyi

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Yes, they do track people they don't like, yes, they break into their homes and kill them, and yes, they do indeed share this information on their websites.

They? Who is they?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Tell me now, how many women are being systematically abused tonight all over the Muslim world?

I don't know know. Tell me. Perhaps you can also tell me how many women are being abused all over Africa, and India, and East Asia and South America. Or are you just going to compare a village in Pakistan to a major city in Europe?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Don't play this sympathy game for them, telling us that we have dehumanized them. THEY dehumanize their women on a daily basis.

Who is "They"?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Are you defending their belief that womens' testimonies are worth half than that of a man?

Forgetting for the moment the absurdity of the accusation, can you name me which muslim countries on earth take womens' testimony as worth half of a man's?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Are you defending the number of bastard children in Mecca that are the result of the one night only Muttah marriages?

And out of curiousity, how many would that number be, considering that Saudia Arabia bans its practice, and that as it is, it only exists in the Twelver branch of Shia Islam? Do you think it'd be more, or less than the same in the US? Or would the US have it less because of abortions?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Are you defending 275 young innocent girls burning up in a fire for not having their burkhas on?

And are you blaming all muslims for it?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Are you defending the Khurds who were victims of mustard gassing?

And are you blaming all muslims for it?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Are you defending the stoning deaths of women in Afghanistan?

And are you blaming all muslims for it?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Are you defending the beheadings and hangings of Christians in Syria?

And are you blaming all muslims for it?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Are you defending the genocide against Copts in Egypt?

Genocide against Copts?!

. Wow, my coptic friends in Egypt will be really confused about that when they hear about it. Anyhow, and are you blaming all muslims for it?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Are you defending the genocide of Armenians?

And are you blaming all muslims for it?

You're an incredibly vivid example of what the OP was talking about.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: fartsmeller46

Before I get into the meat of this response I do want to point out that I'm American born and raised. I pay my taxes and have never used any sort of welfare or government support in my life besides chump change from Fafsa. I'm white and raised Catholic though now I'm agnostic (please look up the difference between agnostic and atheist before your next rant). My agnosticism is due to seeing the hypocrisy of most Christians in America. I have an abundance of back up for my views including one absolutely mind blowing insider story that made the news but most probably do not know. Anyways I digress. The point is it's pretty hilarious how you implied I'm a Muslim immigrant on welfare when that literally could not be farther from the truth.

That post of mine you quoted was to show how Judaism and Christianity both have violence in their scriptures since so many people use the Quran as justification. It's not fair for me to use the bible when Christians use the Quran? I know many do not believe everything in the bible but people do cherry pick verses they like from these same archaic texts such as the ones that support homophobia. Also a solid chunk of Christians do claim to believe the bible is 100% true and 100% undeniable word of God but I know most don't actually mean it since they clearly haven't read the bible cover to cover.

I like how you want me to list Christian atrocities so we can have some sort of religious violence dick measuring contest on the internet. They do exist, as do atrocities from Buddhism, Hinduism, atheism, nationalism or pretty much every ism. These non Muslim atrocities are usually entirely absent from mainstream media. If they do make the news they are always framed as non representative of their ideology or religion. They are rebels or cults or insane individuals or tribal groups. When a Christian does something terrible it is never allowed to blame Christianity. This is because the media is bought and paid for. Drumming up Muslim hatred and ignoring or toning down any hint of American/Western/Christian corruption is not beneficial to the goals of the ruling corporatocracy

Either way thanks for writing a biased and hateful attack on me and Muslims. You are proving the point me and others are making. When you let the propaganda completely drench your brain you lose the ability to think freely and become a machine driven by emotion based inputs alone. You are the model citizen of a corrupt, failed America.

Good post, and I agree.

This is one double standard that I am pointing to.

When a Muslim extremist or group commits violence or war, the media and many westerners try to point to Islam as the fundamental cause AND over-extrapolate the problem to all Muslims.

But if a Christian such as George Bush Jr. or countless others across history engage in war or violence, then a double standard is engaged, wherein the Westerners either entirely avoid discussing Bush's religious beliefs in connection with his political ideology, or "he isn't really a Christian," or do NOT extrapolate it to all Christians. Now, all of these might be the correct viewpoint, that he maybe isn't a "real Christian" or we can't generalize all Christians. But then I use the same yardstick for looking at Muslims.

This is ALL we are saying. It shouldn't be so difficult for people to understand.