Three day ceasefire falls apart as Hamas accused of firing rockets and capturing Israeli soldier

a reply to: sosobad

It is horrible that children have been killed but do you really think Israel is targeting them or is it hamas surrounding their rocket launchers with children?

And again with the "no military action" thing... hamas are muslim, fight and die for allah, so if they pray to alla for strength to fight that is a military action and breaches the cease fire agreement....

Destroying the tunnels is IMHO no different than diffusing an unexploded ordnance,
what if instead of the military destroying said tunnel, they brought in masons and bricked it closed. would that be a military action?

Would you volunteer to brick it up knowing there were guys inside it with guns that wanted to kill you? or would you say blow it up?

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: tinner07

A ceasefire means no military actions, destroying the tunnels is a military action.

you cannot deny that every missile hamas launches toward israel is potentially targeting school children.

Yeah but Israel's missiles are actually killing Palestinian children.

anyone have a copy of the cease fire?

i thought israel said it would still go after the tunnels.

originally posted by: tsingtao

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: tinner07

A ceasefire means no military actions, destroying the tunnels is a military action.

you cannot deny that every missile hamas launches toward israel is potentially targeting school children.

Yeah but Israel's missiles are actually killing Palestinian children.

anyone have a copy of the cease fire?

i thought israel said it would still go after the tunnels.

Well if that's the case then they had no intentions of keeping to the ceasefire, their military is using explosives to blown up tunnels= military action

They can't pick and chose parts to stick to, if they really wanted a halt they would stop.

a reply to: daaskapital

Putting aside any hated of Israel and/or support for Hamas (Palestine)....

Is there a single legitimate reason for one country to have a network of tunnels leading into another country against their will?

I can understand transportation tunnels, America shares one with Canada about three miles from my house. Both countries agreed to it though. One group having clandestine tunnels into another country are only there for nefarious reasons.

Or am I wrong?

a reply to: sosobad

ok I have a scenario... the U.S. is not at war with Mexico. We find tunnels under the border and destroy them....Is that a military action? Is that provocation for Mexico to start launching missiles at us?

I feel a cease fire means we will stop shooting at you, that doesnt mean we will allow your secret tunnels we have discovered to remain

a reply to: 200Plus

TextIs there a single legitimate reason for one country to have a network of tunnels leading into another country against their will?

I'm guessing you are only going to get get 2 answers to that question
1) they are built by Israel as a false flag and arent even tunnels or....
2) they exist but only to carry cupcakes and puppy dogs lol

a reply to: tinner07
A ceasefire means no military action, it is not a hard concept to grasp I don't know why you are so confused. Do you think before the ceasefire Hamas agreed to them blowing up the tunnels? No I doubt very highly that they agreed to that. So who broke the ceasefire?

a reply to: sosobad

so address the roadside bomb scenario that Buster says you could walk around.

Do you feel the same? walk around it until the cease fire ends?

Let me think here. Who was it that said, "Elections have consequences."? Hamas was elected overwhelmingly by the people of Gaza, even though their intentions concerning Israel were known. The people of Gaza have to bear some responsibility for Hamas.

originally posted by: tinner07
a reply to: sosobad

so address the roadside bomb scenario that Buster says you could walk around.

Do you feel the same? walk around it until the cease fire ends?

What the hell has that got to do with it? You are making that statement not me, I don't have to address it. Plain and simple they where militarily active burning a ceasefire. How about you address the fact that Israel was still active with their military while a ceasefire was on.

a reply to: daaskapital

My opinion on the matter? I'm not sure who broke the ceasefire (as i am not prepared to go believing everything announced by the IDF or Israel), but i consider the continuing destruction of tunnels, during a ceasefire, a violation thereof.

I could be wrong but my understanding was that the conditions of the ceasefire included Israel destroying these tunnels, but that neither side was to take direct action against any combatants.....

Its also my understanding that Hamas agreed to the ceasfire with these stipulations......

Hours before the ceasefire was announced, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, facing international alarm over a rising civilian death toll in Gaza, said he would not accept any truce that stopped Israel from completing the destruction of militants' infiltration tunnels.

According to the Kerry and Ban statement, forces on the ground would remain in place during the ceasefire.

Now I dont know if this was a part of that ceasfire or if it was just a statement he made before hand?

I dont know the facts on this if anyone can help out here

a reply to: daaskapital

Hamas doesn't really want a time out. What they need for their PR campaign is more fighting and dead civilians.

What has strengthening your defences got to do with a ceasefire?

Thats what Isreal were doing is it not.

I am not taking sides in this conflict as they are both terrible and taking sides is like picking your favourite serial killer, then making excuses for their crimes, but I think people are being a little unfair on Israel here. They were not firing, they were repairing defences.

The reports seem to agree Hamas broke this ceasefire again, yet the same people here on ATS still fail to accept that Hamas are not choirboys. Stoking the tensions as usual.

pfhhh.


It seems the people who have taken sides in this issue ignore their 'teams' crimes or make excuses for them, thus lying to themselves. Perfect ignorance.

a reply to: sosobad

ok a cease fire agreement.... so they sit around a table having tea and crumpets and say "we stop shooting at you, you stop shooting at us BUT... if you find any of our secret tunnels we use to kill you do not destroy them"

Maybe they are a hole in the ground you wouldnt want your kids to fall into, thats why they bombed them shut.... perhaps if they were on the no military action list they should mark them as "secret hamas military tunnel" as to keep them free from closure?

Hamas seems determined to run Israel into the poor house or run them dry on interceptor missiles in Iron Dome. I can't imagine many other explanations for Hamas's unusual resistance to any form of temporary cease fire.

In past fights, Hamas has embraced cease fires long enough to rearm, reorganize and re-assert themselves when they break it. Now, they won't even let one begin in a serious way. Why? What do they gain by no pause in the fighting, as the side being attacked relentlessly?

All I can see they gain is a lack of resupply and production time to replace what they are causing Israel to expend by the thousands. If Iron Dome runs dry, so does the luck of roughly 7 million people currently living beneath it's protection.

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: tinner07
A ceasefire means no military action, it is not a hard concept to grasp I don't know why you are so confused. Do you think before the ceasefire Hamas agreed to them blowing up the tunnels? No I doubt very highly that they agreed to that. So who broke the ceasefire?

They did agree but then sat down and started scratching their heads and said "hay I don't think this is right. We have to stop firing rockets but they get to keep looking for them". Duh. Oh yea cant what for these tactical and international relations brain surgeons to get recognized as a nation and get to set at counsel in the UN.

a reply to: buster2010

That's probably because Rafah wasn't a part of the ceasefire pal...
You see these "ceasefires" are conditional...
The "ceasefire" may be for Ramallah... But not for Hebron... Etc!!!
There is no such thing as a ceasefire where Israel is concerned!!!


Peace Buster!!!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Just a minor correction. Ramallah and Hebron are West Bank cities. Not Gaza population centers. The West Bank is where the Palestinian Authority rule and are working toward talks to find peace with Israel.

Gaza is where Hamas rules and is locked in a fight to the death with Israel.

Two lands with the same culture and people, divided by radically different leadership. One needs cease fires and the other needs a break from the one needing cease fires.

I am replying like this because I have two of you talking to me,

So let's get this straight you are saying that Hamas excepted a ceasefire and agreed to let Israel destroy the structures they built in the last 4 years with their men inside them for what? What the hell could they possibly gain from it? You are making an argument that they agreed to have their men, weapons and tunnels destroyed to just help Israel.Some of you are more deluded than I thought.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: tinner07
so destroying the tunnels they use to attack from is considered hostile? what if Israel discovered a roadside bomb planted by hamas, would they be allowed to diffuse it or would that be considered an aggressive act as well? in my opinion the tunnels are the same as a roadside bomb.

you cannot deny that every missile hamas launches toward israel is potentially targeting school children.

And you can apply your logic and say that every shell and missile from Israel is targeting civilians.

Well one thing for sure, Hamas certainly doesn't send out warnings that they are about to start launching rockets. There is no phone line from Hamas to Israle that warns them to move out of the way.