Creationism Will be the End of Cristianity.

a reply to: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing

precisely the point I was trying to make.

A2D

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: ArtemisE

Nonsense.

Atheism has virtually ALL the features of a religion.

I'm tired of proving that. The evidence is out there.

You've only proved anything to yourself.... Which is a very low bar considering you consider the warm and fuzzy's proof of the validity of the bible and you consider a rare meteorological happening a miracle.....

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

They claim there is no god.....but will swap instantly the second there is a shred of real evidence.... That's not a religion. IN ANY SENSE!

There is no god is our opinion. We think the evidence points to natural evolution. That is not a dogma. It's not that important to us. We don't preform rituals Or pay tithes or do marriages or base our entire life on it or die for it or kill for it or think your going to be tortured for all eternity because you don't believe it.

Atheists don't want your diety portrayed to our children as "truth" when it's anything but....... The only reasons they have activists is because none of us want you putting your religious laws on us or teaching our children your garbage. Ironically the same reason your side has activists. The only difference is that sciences ability to admit errors and find a better way has led to all the marvels of the modern era. While religion has provide loads of horrors while offering the warm and fuzzy's for those that buy it.

originally posted by: ReturnofTheSonOfNothing

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: tsingtao

While it is true that science is provisional...the atheist is not provisional.

The atheist states "THERE IS NO GOD".

Only gnostic atheism would claim to know there is no god, and 99.9% of all atheists are agnostic atheists..

Science can claim to know something. Find out there wrong. Make adjustments. Fix the problem and move on. ... Sure it means they didn't actually know.... We don't know anything the way you think you "know" Jesus. You "know " there's a Devine Jesus enough to ignore all other evidence. We don't know anything like that.... Besides maybe the love of my child, but that's also a chemical evolutionary reaction as well.

I bet y'all can't even imagine a scenario where Christianity was debunked for you... Every atheist can name thousands...

a reply to: ArtemisE

It was fun participating in this thread. Thank your for starting it!

My final thought is this:

In regards to the original post, I think the entirety of this thread provides sufficient evidence to deduce that young-earth-creationists will not be the end of Christianity. My brothers and sisters weren't phased by any of the issues brought forth in this thread. This is indicative of a larger phenomenon, which I'll get to in a moment. My focus is on the Christian stand because the demise of Christianity is the main focus of the original post. Bible based Christians aren't deterred by things like the science of men, interpretation of evidence, or anything else. There are over well over a billion followers, and it is rapidly growing despite the young-earth-creationists. It may be on the decline in the United States, but it's growing big and fast in many places around the world from Liberia to China and beyond. None of the criticism is preventing it, not even creationism.

We're here to stay, and nobody can change it.

It's pretty neat to see an entire thread demonstrate the answer to its own question/statement.

originally posted by: JohnFisher
Bible based Christians aren't deterred by things like the science of men, interpretation of evidence, or anything else.

Ironically that is exactly what the poster above you was just saying. It's not just Christians that deny everything other than their chosen Dogma. All exclusive Religions do this. That to me is why the fighting will never stop. It can't because nobody is willing to admit they are wrong. It's always the other guy. I think everyone who thinks this way should all go to one spot on earth and battle it out until there is a winner that way all the rest of the world can get along with our lives without the Religious nuts fighting amongst us.

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: ArtemisE

It was fun participating in this thread. Thank your for starting it!

My final thought is this:

In regards to the original post, I think the entirety of this thread provides sufficient evidence to deduce that young-earth-creationists will not be the end of Christianity. My brothers and sisters weren't phased by any of the issues brought forth in this thread. This is indicative of a larger phenomenon, which I'll get to in a moment. My focus is on the Christian stand because the demise of Christianity is the main focus of the original post. Bible based Christians aren't deterred by things like the science of men, interpretation of evidence, or anything else. There are over well over a billion followers, and it is rapidly growing despite the young-earth-creationists. It may be on the decline in the United States, but it's growing big and fast in many places around the world from Liberia to China and beyond. None of the criticism is preventing it, not even creationism.

We're here to stay, and nobody can change it.

It's pretty neat to see an entire thread demonstrate the answer to its own question/statement.

The thread was actually on. If creationists continue to be the loudest most publicized voices. Will the next generations with more technology, equate creationism with Christianity and never give it a second look.

a reply to: mOjOm

Oh no, if something doesn't jive with "The Word", well they just change the meaning or definition of things

well speaking from personal experience, i feel i'm a bit of a scientist when it comes to the bible and other ancient texts. i don't think they are myths. so my approach to them is, if something doesn't make sense, it's because there's a translation problem or i need to study the etymology. i find this preferable to just accepting what someone spoon feeds me and i'm thinking because you understand that concept, you won't mind me doing so as well.

now just take that idea and advance it to your understanding of other people. we're just looking for truths that support our world view, the same as anyone else. for example, in my adventures of figuring it all out, i've employed etymology, archaeology, geology, astronomy, astrology, and so on. would you prefer if it i just sat in one spot with my finger up my nose?

a reply to: undo

No there is no reason to punish your finger or nose over the situation. I'm also not talking about normal rational interpretation or philosophical pursuits. I also don't mean to imply All Christians even though I think I may have been to general in that first post.

I'm talking about the ones who literally twist the cherry picked phrases to suit real life conditions or events when there is literally no way any rational person could make the same connection. The ones who literally deny any evidence that might be a conflict to their interpretation of things.

I enjoy theology and discussion about Religion with people who are open to ideas and even "what if's" about religion too. It's the ones who come at you sideways that want to condemn everything to hell, scream "Sinner" to the world, absolutely refuse to change or even bend to different ideas and try to use biblical scripture like it's the be all end all absolute truth of the universe that can answer any and all possible questions and above all is absolute truth to the letter. That to me is someone who has become dangerously obsessed to the point of psychosis.

a reply to: undo

we're just looking for truths that support our world view, the same as anyone else.

And there's it in a nutshell. No, it's not the same as anyone else.

YOU are starting with your world view and then finding evidence to support it - that's called confirmation bias.

Other people accept that their own world view may be entirely wrong and look at all the evidence - if they find a fact that goes against what they've previously believed, then they adjust their understanding, however painful that might be. What they don't do is ignore or attack the facts.

Claiming that what you do is the 'same as anyone else' is plain wrong.

a reply to: mOjOm

it's a learning process. everyone's on different steps in the process

a reply to: benedictus

i wouldn't say that studying one ancient text to determine what is happening in another ancient text is bad.

here's an example:

i did comparative analysis on sumerian, akkadian, egyptian and biblical texts. i learned all kinds of things, such as akkadian enmerkar was the biblical nimrod. sumerian inana was egyptian isis. that "iah" is "yah" as in yahweh and that several pharaohs as well as biblical figures had names that had some version of iah as its meaning, such son of iah or just iah. i learned the iah is the akkadian ea who is the sumerian enki.

in this manner, i'm finding out all kinds of interesting things. if i didn't do the analysis, i wouldn't know, and if i didn't know, i would have a much smaller understanding of the world and history.

a reply to: undo

I don't either. But you say you have a kind of scientific approach in the way you approach the bible - I see nothing wrong with that. You also say that if something doesn't make sense, it's because there's a translation problem or you need to study the etymology. Again, that seems to me a perfectly reasonable approach to studying ancient texts (I Imagine you know more about this than me).

But there may be another reason why it doesn't make sense, and that it because that it's just been made up. Or maybe it's been re-translated, or passed on verbally from one person to another, changing subtly each time like a game of Chinese Whispers, or re-edited to please a particular ruling body at particular times in history. A truly scientific approach to studying the bible would understand that its a fallacy to assume the bible is true. Your admitting that you are finding evidence to support your world view kind of supports the idea that you are not taking a completely scientific approach to it. Maybe it's your world view that is the reason something doesn't make sense?

a reply to: benedictus

well i develop a hypothesis, then i study to develop a theory - this can only be achieved if i assume my material is worth investigating in the first place. if i start from the premise that it's not worth investigating, then i won't learn as much, as i'm really not invested in the outcome. it ends up being my theory and other people can agree or not. but if i didn't do that i'd still be a christian and not know a thing about why things were the way they were in the ancient world. most christian females, don't read the old testament because it scares them. it's dark and gloomy with all kinds of judgement and death and rapes and pillages and etc, and i wanted to know why that was. i didn't ignore it. i went in to find out why. and i think i did find out why.

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I understand your position friend. But what makes the claims so wild? Is of because the claims are beyond our scope of of understanding?

They are wild because no human should be able to do the things that Jesus is claimed to have done. If it is physically possible and we just don't understand it, then we need the scientific evidence to back it up.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: mOjOm

Oh no, if something doesn't jive with "The Word", well they just change the meaning or definition of things

well speaking from personal experience, i feel i'm a bit of a scientist when it comes to the bible and other ancient texts. i don't think they are myths. so my approach to them is, if something doesn't make sense, it's because there's a translation problem or i need to study the etymology. i find this preferable to just accepting what someone spoon feeds me and i'm thinking because you understand that concept, you won't mind me doing so as well.

now just take that idea and advance it to your understanding of other people. we're just looking for truths that support our world view, the same as anyone else. for example, in my adventures of figuring it all out, i've employed etymology, archaeology, geology, astronomy, astrology, and so on. would you prefer if it i just sat in one spot with my finger up my nose?

Only a Christian creationist would ever think they " figured it all out".... Lmao completely ridiculous....there is NO science in any "theory" ( guess) you have made......

a reply to: mOjOm

Ohhhhhhhhhh no!

It's not the Christians using the daffynitionary of rubber words.

Sheesh.

Who changed genocidal child sacrifice to Morlach on the altars of convenience "choice?"

Who changed black into white?

Who changed up into down?

Who changed left into right?

Who changed REGRESSING ALL THE WAY BACK TO BABYLON into "progressives?"

Who changed "science" into a cold blooded, narrow, rigid, lock-step, orthodoxy of RELIGION?

Gimme a break. What a travesty of an upside-down assertion.

Sheesh.

And now the cheek to rationalize raining on 4 sides of a drying hay field as a freak weather feature instead of the miracle it was.

What gross hypocrisy.

What unmitigated disingenuously clueless blather pretending to be erudition.

Truly the Manual is accurate . . . trying to bring such a perspective to understanding and enlightenment is impossible. Minds have been darkened and will not have any lights go on in them unless and until Holy Spirit performs a miracle in hearts, spirits and minds--probably in that order. And there appears to be little chance of that in great proportions of such perspectives.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

In . . . East Timor . . . I forget . . . 20-30 years ago . . . a whole group of folks trekking home in a heavy rainstorm after a Bible study . . . had to cross a river. They walked across the river seemingly in knee deep water. Yet, every person in the group knew from where the water was on the banks, that it was actually over their heads in depth.

Billy Graham investigated and found the assertions credible.

Of course you will not. You seemingly have no capacity to consider such evidence fairly.

Which leaves me wondering . . . what on earth ever conditioned you and other such perspectives on this thread, so fiercely to be so hostile to God.