Creationism Will be the End of Cristianity.

a reply to: solomons path

find something else to call myself.

well let's see. i'm a woman. ut oh, that gets me in trouble with half the planet, right off the bat.
i'm white. egads, say it isn't so. i'm currently the slime of the earth who enslaved black people.
i'm christian. apparently i did the inquisition. raped people, and whatever the hell else happened on the planet that can be attributed to christians, as if they were sole proprietors of human dna.
i'm american, that makes me auto-stupid, violent, greedy and erm, i'm sure there's a few more in there.
i like to read and theorize about the meanings of ancient texts, including the sumerian ones, that makes me a sitchite (did you know sitchin wrote the sumerian texts? me neither)
i'm a creationist. that means i don't believe in evolution, which means i'm an idiot and a few other choice epitaphs

etc, ad nauseum. i'm just pointing to the obviousness of it all. i'm not going to rename myself so you won't call me an idiot, i'm going to request you return me the favor of not calling you one. as you'll notice, as of yet, i haven't called you anything derogatory other than request you abide by your own rule regarding bigotry.

originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: Agree2Disagree
Atheists go by facts.

No...no they don't.

Atheists claim "there is no god"

There is no "fact" to support this claim. Science cannot even possibly provide a fact for them because science does not deal with SUPERNATURAL occurrences, such as DEITY.....PERIOD.

A2D

a reply to: Toadmund

Unaware of a major NT era fact yet you purport to be a very knowing 'expert' on the validity of the NT.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

GUFFAWS to the max.

a reply to: ArtemisE

But that's just it, you don't understand. I'm not talking about the "warm and fuzzies". I'm talking about experiences in life, not sensations.

a reply to: solomons path


Soooooooooooooo . . . with my PhD in clinical psych . . .

and your training in whatever . . .

who is likely to be more knowledgeable about psychological projection?

I'm truly underwhelmed at your expertise in that as well as in assessment of the Biblical record.

a reply to: ArtemisE

In addition to my first response about the "warm and fuzzies"... I'm not talking about some that the "God machine" can recreate. That's all fine and dandy, but we're talking about completely different types of experiences.

a reply to: JohnFisher

Well put.

Autonomy and free will are vital for there to be an authentic capacity to

CHOOSE LOVE.

There have to be authentic choices with different consequences depending on the choice, else the choice is meaningless.

I think Walter Martin had the free will analogy that was best . . . imagine a computer as big as the postulated multiverse. Every possible choice of every organism for all time was in the computer program already.

AT THE LEVEL OF EACH ORGANISM, there was authentic free will, choice with real consequences.

HOWEVER, God the Programmer also has choice and great ability to nudge even free will choices in a way that results in His will.

In terms of these sorts of threads . . . as The Manual declares . . . "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God."

When folks declare there is no God, they have signaled a certain level of willful blindness that no amount of argument or even brazenly factual evidence can have the slightest effect on. Even Holy Spirit seems to leave such folks alone short of major prayer, repentance, confession etc. That's a VERY FRIGHTFUL STATE to be in.

I don't expect to influence such folks in the least. However, there are likely folks who have genuine questions that satan uses the willfully blind to influence toward damnation. I think it's fitting to, as Peter instructed, provide to every man an answer for the hope that lies within us, as best as we can, with Holy Spirit's help.

originally posted by: JohnFisher
a reply to: BO XIAN

What you speak of is something foreign to those who don't know Him. They don't understand. They think we're stupid, misinformed, or gullible. If we speak of our experiences they'll call it something else. They think they know what we're talking about, but they don't. But we know... We are fortunate brother. Just remember how difficult it can be to submit oneself to the way. After all, we walked in darkness ourselves.

Absolutely indeed. Well put.

And that's the crux of it.

Americans and Europeans particularly seem addicted to being their own god. We have, as a culture, followed the Pied Piper from hell toward the deception that being our own god is workable and sensible. . . . that we COULD even BEGIN to joust with The Creator and win.

It's idiocy.

A lot of the blather on such threads is of the nature of stuff that even the most rabidly hostile to God would not begin to think of saying such things to their boss. They realize 1/10th such cheek would likely get them fired and out on their tin ear. Yet they presume to tell God what reality is and how immoral God is!

Ignorance gone to seed.

a reply to: ArtemisE

Nonsense.

Atheism has virtually ALL the features of a religion.

I'm tired of proving that. The evidence is out there.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: solomons path

find something else to call myself.

well let's see. i'm a woman. ut oh, that gets me in trouble with half the planet, right off the bat.
i'm white. egads, say it isn't so. i'm currently the slime of the earth who enslaved black people.
i'm christian. apparently i did the inquisition. raped people, and whatever the hell else happened on the planet that can be attributed to christians, as if they were sole proprietors of human dna.
i'm american, that makes me auto-stupid, violent, greedy and erm, i'm sure there's a few more in there.
i like to read and theorize about the meanings of ancient texts, including the sumerian ones, that makes me a sitchite (did you know sitchin wrote the sumerian texts? me neither)
i'm a creationist. that means i don't believe in evolution, which means i'm an idiot and a few other choice epitaphs

etc, ad nauseum. i'm just pointing to the obviousness of it all. i'm not going to rename myself so you won't call me an idiot, i'm going to request you return me the favor of not calling you one. as you'll notice, as of yet, i haven't called you anything derogatory other than request you abide by your own rule regarding bigotry.

Oh please . . . stop playing the victim and stop creating straw men.

I never called you an idiot. And I couldn't care less about all those other things you are. If you don't behave like the typical christians I was describing before, good for you. I have never called you anything, personally. Stop trying to act like I did, just because you don't like what I think of the typical christian.

a reply to: ArtemisE

And they are wrong.

There's solid evidence of even the Exodus from Egypt.

And I've seen plenty of miracles in my own life as I've articulated on these threads many times . . . e.g. raining on 4 sides of a drying hay field but not on the drying hay.

a reply to: solomons path

I'm already chewing a pretty heavy bite, so I'm not looking to get into anything heavy with this reply... But...

The sort of behavior you're referring to would be prevalent without Christianity just like it has been always. So Christianity isn't the source of such bigotry. Any preacher who calls for his church to deliver a person to the devil is a false teacher. We are warned about such things in our bible. That's why it's especially important for a Christian to read the bible his/herself. Without the nourishment of scripture we are vulnerable to false teachers, prophets, and doctrine. Counterfeit Christianity is the source of all these horrible things, and I'd call it the devil's work. But let us clarify, true biblical Christianity is not what you're talking about. I am in agreement with you when you rebuke their actions.

a reply to: solomons path

oh i missed a few of your points:

as regards the pastor and the LGBT thing, that's not a good thing they are doing. i personally believe gay people are either born that way or are pressured by society to be that way. i don't blame them either way and would never ostracize them for something they have no control over. did you know there also atheists who do things you won't agree with and that i would be hard pressed to blame all atheists for, since clearly not all atheists do those things? really this is an easy step for you to get over.

so, judge away Christian and tell me all the ways I have upset your imaginary father. Heavy artillery . . . classic!

i find you not guilty. none of us are. this whole thing on earth is like a giant experiment, and more than half the information is being withheld from us. or at least, that's my theory. i'm standing by it, and nothing you can say will change my mind.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Agreed.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: solomons path


Soooooooooooooo . . . with my PhD in clinical psych . . .

and your training in whatever . . .

who is likely to be more knowledgeable about psychological projection?

I'm truly underwhelmed at your expertise in that as well as in assessment of the Biblical record.

Well Doctor . . . excuse me. I guess I must bow to your brilliance, even though nothing about your writing style or previous posts (ever) point to "PhD" or knowing anything about psychology.

I have achieved only a meager M.S. in Developmental (Cognitive) Psychology and B.A. in Secondary Education. So, you are right . . . you would know MUCH more about projection. However, your reading comprehension lacks a bit, as I have never discussed the "biblical record", so I'm not sure you could be underwhelmed by that.

I see you are a fellow Arizonan . . . surely a "PhD in clinical psych" must be doing research somewhere around town? Are you at ASU . . . UA . . . Mayo? Or, do you own your own facility somewhere? There is no way you are wasting your clinical background doing "counselling" and therapy work, right . . . so, you should be at one of the very few research facilities in town?

Also, where might I find something you have published . . . you don't have to give me your name, maybe something published as part of a team? You have been published right? I mean you do have your doctorate.

a reply to: solomons path

I've mostly counseled in agencies and taught in universities--mostly overseas in Asia.

My dissertation collected more than 1,000 variables but analyzed only a few of them . . . I've said more than I should have about that . . . though it looked at values extensively . . . I don't want to give the Jihadi's any more clues they could find me about given their anger over my web postings.

I've not really published extensively. I have a couple of things on Kindle.

One psych oriented and one TEOTWAWKI oriented.

Sorry if I mixed you up with one who was deriding the Biblical historical record.

At my age, I don't keep many details as straight as I once tried to do.

Yes, I registered your tweaky derisiveness in your post I replied to above.

a reply to: undo

Again . . . I never "attacked" you personally. You simply took exception to my criticisms of your preferred ideology. I wasn't even engaging you when I made them.

Those criticisms are simply what I have witnessed, still witness, and can show historically. It's a pattern of behavior. If you or other christians don't act that way, then you are the audience that the OP was talking about. Christians who don't raise a voice against those that perpetrate hatred, bigotry, etc. (or directly to the OP, willful ignorance or denial of reality) in the name of their religion.

Of course I don't agree with any "atheist" (or Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc) who would do those things either. Never said I did . . . but, this topic (thread) was about Christians. If you want to start a critical thread about the other religions I can make my criticisms of those there. It's not "bigotry" to level criticism, where criticism is due. I do not view any Christian with "fear, distrust, or hatred", which is what bigotry is defined as. I judge each person on their own, but day in and day out I witness evidence that those behaviors are prevalent in those who practice Christianity. However, that doesn't mean that there are not some very good in that belief system, as well (several in my own family).

Thank you for finding me "not guilty" . . . I, too, find you not guilty. And, I you are also free to have your own thoughts . . . I'm not trying to "mold" you into anything.

Try to have a good rest of the evening . . . I'm out.

originally posted by: BO XIAN

AT THE LEVEL OF EACH ORGANISM, there was authentic free will, choice with real consequences.

HOWEVER, God the Programmer also has choice and great ability to nudge even free will choices in a way that results in His will.

I love how Christians always alter words and concepts in order to justify their Dogma. They never bother to even contemplate the possibility that their Biblical Interpretations, which vary radically even from Christian to Christian, might be incorrect. Oh no, if something doesn't jive with "The Word", well they just change the meaning or definition of things. To them the only truth is the Bible, therefor they must instead change reality to fit the book rather than the other way around. How insane it must be to try and rationalize such behavior, I just can't imagine.

FYI, Even "nudging" free will no longer makes it possible to have Free Will. That's not me or my opinion. That is by definition. If you don't like it, too bad. You can't go around changing the meaning of things just to fit your agenda. Well, I suppose you can, but when others do it we call them crazy and either lock them up or medicate them before they cause too much trouble. It's your choice I guess........or is God nudging you in another direction????

a reply to: BO XIAN
Good . . .

I'm not trying to out you . . . however, at the level you ascribe to be, you should know that valid criticisms are not "bigotry" or "attacks" or anything else that gets bandied about this site.

I can understand the defense of your ideology, but c'mon. At your level of education, you should be able to have rational discussion without resorting to the circular logic of scriptural confirmation or claims of persecution.

Anyway . . . I've stayed one post past my time . . . see you around.

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: tsingtao

While it is true that science is provisional...the atheist is not provisional.

The atheist states "THERE IS NO GOD".

Only gnostic atheism would claim to know there is no god, and 99.9% of all atheists are agnostic atheists..