Scottish independence: Barack Obama backs 'strong and united' UK

originally posted by: TDawg61
This is an easy one.If the Scots want you out then gell the hell out.

USA is the last country to comment on a states right to succeed from a union..........................

*cough* Civil war *cough*

a reply to: Soloprotocol

You don't seem to get it do you, conveniently.
What if the people from those islands decide they no longer want to be a part of Scotland?
Many already consider themselves as separate from Scotland as they do from England and the rest of the UK.
Some, would actually prefer to stay as part of the UK if Scotland votes for independence.

Do you believe Scotland has a right to dictate to all those islanders who should govern them?

I understand that you passionately believe in Scottish independence, and that is entirely your right, but perhaps it would be helpful for all concerned if you tried to support your statements with facts and responded to some of the questions that have been directed at you.

a reply to: TDawg61

This is an easy one.If the Scots want you out then gell the hell out.

You make it sound as if Scotland is under some sort of military occupation - I assure you it isn't and to suggest as much would be an insult to every single Scots person.

If you mean that if the Scots wish to leave the UK they should be allowed to, well, that's the very reason for the referendum and if that's what they want that's what they'll get - I don't think anyone really has a problem with that.

So, with all due respect, what exactly was the point you were making?

originally posted by: angelchemuel
a reply to: alldaylong

You also need to check out what the actual territorial waters would be for the Islanders compare to where the rigs are.

Ok i have checked it out. 67% of North Sea oil reserves lie in Shetland waters.
And The Shetland Islanders are not happy with what is going on with Scottish Nationalists. The oil is " theirs "they say ( as they fly blue and white nordic style flags from Shetland Isles mast's )

They are fighting amongst themselves before the vote has even taken place.



uk.reuters.com...

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: TritonTaranis

We have a wider diversity of parties in Scotland and the reason why the SNP did so poorly in the EU elections is because of their stance on the EU.
But I have watched a lot of Alex Salmonds interviews and while he has desires to remain an EU member he has clearly stated that the Euro will never be an option. Besides this, the Scotland yes vote is not about electing SNP as the government and AS as PM. The yes vote is just about whether we want to be independent nothing else, we will vote in who we want as PM and ruling party in 2016.
But the truth is we will have more control to decide and if the SNP find that their policies are not in line with how the Scottish people think then they will be sent a clear message. You can ask the Tories about that one.

Independents nothing else?

Yup that about sums up the idiots in he SNP and there supporters

There is the cliff, go jump it

Seriously tho. Why are you ignoring the SNP lying to the public to gain votes?

originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by: TritonTaranis

originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by: MrSpad
Well duh, of course the US would prefer the UK remain strong and united instead of divided into less powerful states. Scotland seems to think it will jump right into NATO and the EU but, that is not a sure thing. That alone invites the US and all of NATO and the EU into the fray.

If I were the Scots I'd want nothing to do with NATO or the EU. Having a little understanding of what they desire thru independence and based on their history, I'd say they're probably on the course of steering clear of those two entities.

Unfortunately

A YES vote would make joining the Euro far far more likely

And Scotland would need to seek NATO membership and protection or face the vultures, to my understanding the Mats are I favour of that move, that's just the reality of the world we live in today it's not brave heart times anymore the world has moved on and we're not attacking each other like idiots with swords

Not only that, but scots can seek a move away from the EU via UKIP who recently won in the European elections in the UK

What benefit does NATO serve Scotland? Who would attack Scotland? What benefits would the Scots derive from being a member nation of the EU? All they will gain by joining the EU is more debt and NATO will also cost them. If I were a Scot, I'd stay clear of them both.

Ok firstly attacks can be financial, influential, cyber, and many other ways

Scotland would be a target for EU enrolement, Russian, US, British, Dutch, Norway, oil company's

Scotland doesn't have a currency when she leaves the UK

The vultures

Don't be so silly, learn how the world works

a reply to: alldaylong

Well that's fair enough for the islanders and these are the type of issues that we will have to negotiate with the islanders and give them a fair share of the oil revenues. If we start an oil fund we could negotiate an allocation that would benefit the islanders fairly and still be part of a new Scottish union. The fact is the islands are Scottish at the moment and have been long before Scotland joined the union and if they feel they are not getting the representation they deserve then I am not against them getting a referendum at a later date.
But as I mentioned in another post party representation in Scotland is much more diverse, so I am of the opinion that if we gain independence that we may not get an SNP full government but a coalition government which although was a total failure in England it's because they are polar opposites in terms of ideologies and the Tories are way to facist to allow the Liberals have any control. Whereas in Scotland we are predominantly central left and have representatives from the green party who are quite strong in Scotland as their policies are actually more nationalist than the SNP as they are anti EU.
So I think once the decision has been made there will be plenty issues we need to deal with but I think that a better representation for each area in Scotland is the way forward.

a reply to: alldaylong

From your link...

Recognising the distinction, a grassroots group from across Shetland and its island neighbours, Orkney and the Western Isles, have started a petition asking for a second vote, a week after the Scottish referendum.

It would give islanders the option of choosing their own independence, voting to be part of Scotland, or sticking with the United Kingdom.

(bolded part me)
Erm...they want a second vote a week after the main one to decide if they want to stay with Scotland or the UK.....erm.....uuhhhhh....isn't that what the referendum is all about? Or am I missing something?

As to the 67%....you might want to look at the map. You see it's complicated, it's called maritime law and english constitutional law and then you have scottish law.
Basically it stands like this....
Scotland currently has 90% of all UK oil and gas reserves within its territorial waters as defined by ....here you go...

The Continental Shelf Act 1964 and the Continental Shelf (Jurisdiction) Order 1968 defines the UK North Sea maritime area to the north of latitude 55 degrees north as being under the jurisdiction of Scots law[6] meaning that 90% of the UK's oil resources were under Scottish jurisdiction.[7][8] In addition, section 126 of the Scotland Act 1998 defines Scottish waters as the internal waters and territorial sea of the United Kingdom as are adjacent to Scotland.[9] This has been subsequently amended by the Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundary Order 1999 which redefined the extent of Scottish waters and Scottish fishery limits

Now, once/if Scotland gets Sovereign independence each of the Isles have their own territorial waters around them, which would still fall under Scottish law but with those little bye-laws if you will.
Now, you might want to check out this map...I'm hoping its big enough for you to see, but the territorial waters within the Scottish waters are clearly marked...and guess what....there's not an oil field within Shetlands waters...



I am happy to stand corrected if somebody can produce a map that would show Shetlands territorial waters extend into the oil fields.

Rainbows
Jane

If Scotland votes yes

Both the rest of the UK & Scotland will be full EU members within the next decade

Divide and conquer

a reply to: TritonTaranis

You do realise that the sterling pound is Scottish and the 1st head of the Central Bank was a Scotsman. So we have just as much, if not more right to use the pound than the rest of the UK. And if they want be stupid as to deny us it then we will not accept our share of the national debt. That simple.

a reply to: mclarenmp4

No-one has made any serious attempt to answer this question; why would an independent Scotland want to keep a currency that it would have absolutely no say or control over?
Sterling is controlled by The Bank Of England, is the currency of the UK - of which independent Scotland would no longer be a part of - and it is overseen and governed by the bankers in The City Of London.

Surely one of the main aims of independence is to rid yourselves of London's control and dominance?
By keeping Sterling you remain in London's thrall.

Its pretty much irrelevant if the first head of the BoE was Scottish - the current head is Canadian if memory serves me right.

You renege on the national debt do you think any financial body would be willing underwrite any future Scottish debt or heavily invest in Scotland?

And I wouldn't look to the EU - they'll be seriously pissed off with you.

As far as I can see having your own currency would be your best bet - but I'm hardly a financial expert, far, far from it, and I don't know how viable that would be.

ETA

Just done a quick search on Sterling, or the Great British Pound, GBP, and sorry to say, it most definitely is NOT Scottish - its what it says, British.
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: mclarenmp4

Can somebody please explain to me what the problem is over the use of the 'sterling'?
Scotland already prints its own money, albeit 'valued' against the UK sterling....so why is it not simple enough to just call it the Scottish Sterling and let it find its own value out in the world markets?

The Bank of England was founded in 1694, followed by the Bank of Scotland a year later. Both began to issue paper money.

Currency of Great Britain (1707) and the United Kingdom (1801)[edit]
The pound Scots once had much the same value as the pound sterling, but it suffered far higher devaluation until in the 17th century it was pegged to sterling at a value of 12 pounds Scots = 1 pound sterling.

In 1707, the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland merged to form the Kingdom of Great Britain. In accordance with the Treaty of Union, the currency of Great Britain was sterling, with the pound Scots soon being replaced by sterling at the pegged value.

In 1801 Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland were united to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. However, the Irish pound continued to exist and was not replaced by sterling until January 1826. The conversion rate had long been thirteen Irish pounds to twelve pounds sterling.

en.wikipedia.org...

So why can't the Scots just 'un-peg' it if you will?
Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: angelchemuel

Had a quick look and found one in a matter of seconds

www.offshore-technology.com...

There are more i am sure

I have what I believe is a clever stupid question. What will the flag look like? And what are the markings on your jets?
I was adopted into a sept of McClachlan.

a reply to: alldaylong

Mhm....and here's the map in larger scale....see that wee circle around Shetland...that's their territorial waters....Rosebank is way away from there.


If Shetland et all did get a separate vote, they would not get a larger chunk of territorial waters to extend to Rosebank or any of the other oil fields.

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: Freeborn

Because it eases the fears of the undecided voters and the unionists ie. Rangers fans who love old queeny. But yes after transitioning I would make a move toward a crypto-currency which Iceland are introducing and then once the crypto currency is established then the transition from the Pound can be made. Then like all other commonwealth nations we can vote to see if we want to keep old Marg.

Thanks for the links what I should have said was that Scotland already had it's own pound before the union with England and as such we have the same right to it as the rest of the UK. We could just create the Scottish pound and unpeg it with GBP much like Canada does with the U.S but I think Crypto Currencies will be the future as it removes the need for a central bank but either way I think we will continue with the pound for the reasons stated.

a reply to: angelchemuel

I think we will eventually but it's more to ease the fears of the undecided voters than anything else.

a reply to: mclarenmp4


You can have YOUR OWN GUN LAWS. Theres a sphincter pinching thought. Perhaps dueling...with BLADES of course. Gad can YOU imagine the LEGAL profession?

a reply to: angelchemuel

I think if it came down to international law, the Shetland & Orkney oil fields lie closer to the islands than the Scottish mainland.

I found this interesting article :-

www.telegraph.co.uk...

And this interesting snippet:-

Shetland and the Orkneys were the only parts of the Highlands and Islands to vote against a devolved Scottish parliament. And they both voted `no’ by thumping majorities (5,466 to 2020 in the case of Shetland: 5439 to 2104 in the case of Orkney).

a reply to: alldaylong

I've already said in the post above that we should deal with islanders more fairly. See this post.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I love that the No campaign has all been about negativity and we Scots are an optimistic bunch so keep it coming it only helps our cause rather than hinder it. Whatever the outcome of the islanders situation, regardless the rest of the UK won't be reaping the benefits from it and if you check my post on page 2 you will see that our economies are very different and far more diverse. So we'll be alright.