Scottish independence: Barack Obama backs 'strong and united' UK

I think many people are under-estimating the Scottish people.

Do you really believe that people's opinions will be swayed either way solely on Obama's response?

Speaking as an interested outsider looking in it seems to me that there is so much nonsense being spoken by both sides.
Salmond and Sturgeon are a nefarious double act who will use every trick in the book to achieve their goal of attaining power in an independent Scotland as evidenced by their insistence on giving 16 year olds the vote whilst disallowing the 400,000 Scots who live in other parts of the UK a vote.
I've tried as hard as possible to view things from a purely neutral stance and it seems apparent that their goals are one's of personal advancement and aggrandisement with more than a smattering of English loathing thrown in.

But the major UK political parties are only marginally better.
As with most other regions of UK outside of London and The Home Counties the Tories have more or less abandoned Scotland as a lost cause and Labour simply take them for granted, again just like they do with other regions of the UK like North East England etc.

Why would Scotland feel any sort of allegiance to such a London biased entity that the UK has become?
I know I feel very little fondness and affiliation towards it.

But I personally do have faith in the British people and feel we have a better chance of making positive change by remaining united together whilst also having increased devolved power to ALL the regions.

The simple truth of the matter is that the British people as a whole are becoming more and more disillusioned and pissed off with the whole London centric nature of UK economy and politics.

I hope the Scots ignore the romantic propaganda of the independence supporters and unsubtle attempts of the union supporters to influence opinion by trotting out every single A-Z list 'celebrity' or politician.

As said earlier, Scotland will do as Scotland see's fit - and that is only right and proper.
But it would be naïve to expect people from outside of Scotland not to have an opinion and to be at times as equally passionate as the Scots themselves.

A African American against being independent...you couldn't make it up.
The question was a set up as most press conferences are. Anyway...he'll be getting his US funded tridents back on and around the 19th. that's what worries him the most.
Nuclear deterent FAQ

originally posted by: TritonTaranis
A campaign based on on pure lies and fantasy

Alex Salmond YOURE A BIG FAT GREEDY LIAR

Thankfully most scots have had a decent education and can see through the YES campaigners lies which they get caught out on time and time again, a YES vote would see only Scotland's 1% benefit... The country would undoubtably end up in the Euro and in the toilet

Really...Do feel free to tell us about the lies the yes campaign and Alex Salmond have been caught out on time and time again..

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
A African American against being independent...you couldn't make it up.

Why?
Is this some odd slavery or civil rights dig?
I think you'll find that freedom and equality are completely different from a referendum by a nation to break up a union to become a single sovereign nation.

If Scotland votes No on sept 18th we will be the only country in the World ever to knock back the chance of independence and will be seen as a weak and cowardly Nation.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
If Scotland votes No on sept 18th we will be the only country in the World ever to knock back the chance of independence and will be seen as a weak and cowardly Nation.

That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. It's also completely false.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

The thing is, you are trying to make out that Scotland is somehow a subjugated, downtrodden country enchained by a colonial master - and you know that is a complete downright lie and misrepresentation.

Remember, The Union came about at the behest of Scotland and not England or Wales or Northern Ireland.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol

The thing is, you are trying to make out that Scotland is somehow a subjugated, downtrodden country enchained by a colonial master - and you know that is a complete downright lie and misrepresentation.

Remember, The Union came about at the behest of Scotland and not England or Wales or Northern Ireland.

Very true. We in Wales never got much of a choice.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

....We in Wales never got much of a choice.

Indeed.

You've certainly had less choice than the Scots.

But at least the Welsh have a Welsh Assembly where you can have a certain degree of control over your own matters, exactly the same as in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
We English are not afforded such a privilege.

Quite embarrassingly we in North East England had an opportunity to vote for our own regional assembly in 2004 - we voted against it much to my dismay.
It was a complete farce.
There was minimal publicity and media coverage given to it and what did occur was totally one-sided with those in favour of the assembly given no opportunity whatsoever to air their opinions etc.
Given the developments of the last 10 years and the opportunity for a full and public debate on the subject I'm absolutely certain the vote would at least be a damn sight closer. (I suspect that where I live and the surrounding area would vote for a North Eastern Assembly under such circumstances, but that's just opinion and lacking any statistical support).

At least Scotland is having a frank and open discussion even if there is a lot of utter bollocks floating about.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol

The thing is, you are trying to make out that Scotland is somehow a subjugated, downtrodden country enchained by a colonial master - and you know that is a complete downright lie and misrepresentation.

Remember, The Union came about at the behest of Scotland and not England or Wales or Northern Ireland.

The Union came about because the wealthy land owners put all their money on Black and it came up red with the Darien project... 99.9% of the people of Scotland had no say, no vote..
Subjugated and downtrodden...i lived through the Thatcher years, i saw my work closed, every pit in the land closed because of her and her ilk and this area has never recovered. I'll never forget what these people did to Scotland..(poll tax a year before anywhere else in the UK) and if we vote No on Sept 18th they will do it again...well, they gotta keep those voters down south happy and in work.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

....We in Wales never got much of a choice.

Quite embarrassingly we in North East England had an opportunity to vote for our own regional assembly in 2004 - we voted against it much to my dismay.

So you voted for your own regional assembly, you failed and you were dismayed, but we Scots should somehow not be allowed to have this opportunity.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
If Scotland votes No on sept 18th we will be the only country in the World ever to knock back the chance of independence and will be seen as a weak and cowardly Nation.

That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. It's also completely false.

Really, False??? any facts to back this up.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: TritonTaranis
A campaign based on on pure lies and fantasy

Alex Salmond YOURE A BIG FAT GREEDY LIAR

Thankfully most scots have had a decent education and can see through the YES campaigners lies which they get caught out on time and time again, a YES vote would see only Scotland's 1% benefit... The country would undoubtably end up in the Euro and in the toilet

Really...Do feel free to tell us about the lies the yes campaign and Alex Salmond have been caught out on time and time again..

I wouldn't believe a word that Salmond says. He stated UKIP was an English only party that wouldn't win a single Euro Seat in Scotland.

Wrong Mr Salmond.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

The Union came about because the wealthy land owners put all their money on Black and it came up red with the Darien project... 99.9% of the people of Scotland had no say, no vote..

But they were Scottish nonetheless - and it'll be their descendants who'll be ruling and controlling you if you vote for independence and they'll be equally as amoral and corrupt as they were then and as those who govern US now are.

Best way of changing that is by sticking together and getting rid of the scumbags and their self-serving system together.

Subjugated and downtrodden...i lived through the Thatcher years, i saw my work closed, every pit in the land closed because of her and her ilk and this area has never recovered.

Yip, so did I.
And Scotland has received a damn sight more investment etc since than where I live.
North East England, the only part of the UK where house prices are falling, cost of living is going up whilst average family income is coming down, the home of food banks and record house repossessions, highest number of families living on and below the 'poverty line' in the whole of the UK, rising unemployment, blah blah blah.
Sorry, as much as I feel empathy towards the Scots I also know that you are far from being the most alienated and marginalised region in the UK.

I'll never forget what these people did to Scotland..(poll tax a year before anywhere else in the UK) and if we vote No on Sept 18th they will do it again...well, they gotta keep those voters down south happy and in work.

The Poll Tax was how many years ago?
And I think you'll find that it was rioters from all over the UK that put a stop to that!
And its impossible for something similar to occur now thanks to the devolved power you have in The Scottish Assembly.

So you voted for your own regional assembly, you failed and you were dismayed, but we Scots should somehow not have this opportunity.

First of all, I've never suggested for one minute that you shouldn't have the opportunity to vote on independence - in fact I've made it perfectly clear on numerous occasions that you should have that right, and you are - I just hope that Scotland votes to remain part of the UK, if you vote for independence then so be it - The Right to Self-Determination.

See, those bastard English again, 'allowing' you the right to vote on independence. How inconsiderate of them.

Secondly, you've already got the equivalent of a North Eastern Assembly - its called The Scottish Parliament based in Holyrood and it has quite considerable power - far more than any North Eastern Assembly would ever have.

Trying to give the impression that Scotland has no say over the governing of itself at present is absolute bollocks - and you know it.

So you kill heaps of scots and claim government? Cause that is what happened.

As said Scotland could become independent and join the UN

Look at Ireland

a reply to: Soloprotocol


originally posted by: Soloprotocol
If Scotland votes No on sept 18th we will be the only country in the World ever to knock back the chance of independence and will be seen as a weak and cowardly Nation.


originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. It's also completely false.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Really, False??? any facts to back this up.

Perhaps you should be supplying some facts to support your statement before asking for facts to dispute it?

a reply to: Reinmax

So you kill heaps of scots and claim government? Cause that is what happened.
As said Scotland could become independent and join the UN
Look at Ireland

Please elaborate - your post makes no sense whatsoever.

Do you actually know anything about Scotland, the UK and their systems of government etc?

a reply to: crazyewok

I agree with you on this one Ewok. I dont think its anyone's business what others do in their own damn country.

now, considering our history of almost never agreeing on anything..lol
Take this with a grain of salt and know its not directed at you. No beef OK.

This is how Americans feel when others from other countries try to interfere with what we do in our country or judge us for our way of being.

I think its best to not assume anything about other cultures and just let people do what is their own damn business anyways.

We only judge from an ignorant point of view no matter what. We lack the understanding of the nuances, history and context of anything we only see from the outside in.

While there is some perspective to be considered from that position, its still only just for you. Everyone is always better off by shutting up and leaving others to figure out their own way.

If the UK doesn't want Scotland or if Scotland does not want the UK then everyone else should be respectful and BUTT OUT.

We all deserve our own people and the outcome of our decisions, good and bad. Have your opinions sure. Just keep them to yourself unless asked. Otherwise you are just wrong for interfering and actually doing a disservice to everyone actually involved.

Have a good one.

It's not so much as We are Better together, it's more like, The rest will be worse off without us...A lot worse off.

ye ken if Scotland does become independent and Salmond and his crew get elected then run us into the ground he will definitely get his heid kicked in nae doubt aboot it!