Author: Time to Welcome Snowden Home With Ticker Tape Parade

a reply to: twohawks

That kind of plays into its stupidity.

Snowdens leaks bringing to light actions that erode rights and privacy and that very government eroding rights and privacy under the guise of protecting citizens can't both be honorable.

Sort of like two sports teams praying to god for a win before the game.

Take invading a country under false pretense. That's not honorable. But aiding with the rebuild is honorable. A rebuild that wouldnt have been necessary without the invasion in the first place.

So what value does honor have? What real concrete absolute value does it have?

a reply to: thisguyrighthere

In this day and age I find little our gov. does to be honorable. However, that being said, the constitution and the bill of rights I find to hold a great deal of honor and foresight in their drafting. Please don't mistake the people for the ideals.

I think snowden is a actor in a Big play how many times have people come out in the last 40 years in America to say one of the 3 letter agency's have gone rogue on the constitution .

Remember any of them ? most died or went to jail but snowden escapes with hundreds of secret files
and nobody got angry when this info came out /no mass riot's nothing .

This is exactly what the Goverment was watching the reaction to this to see what they can get away with next on the ELOI
good little sheep the goverment loves ya now go back to sleep .

Look at the fuss Watergate caused and Nixon was only watching a few Obama was watching the world on his watch and he was given NOBEL prize for peace [ you could not make it up if you tried ]

SNOWDEN ignore him meee thinks

a reply to: FlyersFan

What the NSA and other agencies have been and are still doing is despicable and in violation of the Bill of Rights AFAIAK. However if Snowden is ever allowed back here via "an amicable agreement" then I'll be convinced it was a planned operation to indoctrinate everyone to the idea we're being watched 24/7. I've pretty much believed that to be the case, from the beginning. I guess we'll see what the future brings and how history records this episode.

originally posted by: crazyewok

Yeah he may be abit of a traitor and a dabbler in treason, but seeing as your entire goverment seems to be made of traitors ? Then hell I say stick it too them.

One could argue he did not commit treason. If he did it would mean he was "adherent to the enemy, gave them aid and comfort." But, that is exactly what he did for his countrymen by exposing these programs. If he is a traitor, does that make the U.S. (and citizens of all the other nations being surveilled) the enemy? To me, how the U.S. government is framing its position and the operations it is conducting, it certainly seems that way.

a reply to: twohawks
UKUSA has been in existence since 1948.
if you are unsure of what that is or what it is used for, I suggest doing some research on it.

If you served in the Armed forces, federal service , yes it is implied in my opening remarks, for those who may not know that, you do take an oath, now the last time I checked as a contractor, just to get a clearance, in most instances you do not swear to this oath, raise your right hand or anything of that sort, what Snowden did, is the absolute opposite of honor, it was dishonorable and deserves punishment.

I would hope that our government is not crawling with those who think like Snowden or we are in bigger trouble than any 3 letter agency could inflict, what most people need to be worried about now, is the access to your personal information and activities that private corporations have, credit files, etc that really have no proven track record or sense or honor or obligation to protect you, data is being warehoused that is almost the same magnitude as what some would protest against 3 letter agencies having access to, because what is sifted via social media, and other stealthy platforms may even be more sensitive than a capture phone call wishing someone happy birthday when the sifting was meant to capture someone who was actually planning some damaging attacks against the U.S., those citizens at home and abroad.

There are a lot more complex issues if you really think about privacy that needs to be discussed but done so with some level of responsible or legally coordinated exploitation, not by egregious actions or anarchist methodologies under the guise of being a so called "patriot" completely minimizing and nullifying the work of the "true patriots" that you might be referring that lost their lives in defense of our nation and the society we all enjoy regardless of the parts that we find disagreeable.

originally posted by: phinubian
a reply to: twohawks
UKUSA has been in existence since 1948.
if you are unsure of what that is or what it is used for, I suggest doing some research on it.

If you served in the Armed forces, federal service , yes it is implied in my opening remarks, for those who may not know that, you do take an oath, now the last time I checked as a contractor, just to get a clearance, in most instances you do not swear to this oath, raise your right hand or anything of that sort, what Snowden did, is the absolute opposite of honor, it was dishonorable and deserves punishment.

I would hope that our government is not crawling with those who think like Snowden or we are in bigger trouble than any 3 letter agency could inflict, what most people need to be worried about now, is the access to your personal information and activities that private corporations have, credit files, etc that really have no proven track record or sense or honor or obligation to protect you, data is being warehoused that is almost the same magnitude as what some would protest against 3 letter agencies, because what is sifted via social media, and other stealthy platforms may even be more sensitive than a capture phone call wishing someone happy birthday when the sifting was meant to capture someone who was actually planning some damaging attacks against the U.S., those citizens at home and abroad.

There are a lot more complex issues if you really think about privacy that needs to be discussed but done so with some level of responsible or legally coordinated exploitation, not by egregious actions or anarchist methodologies under the guise of being a so called "patriot" completely minimizing and nullifying the work of the "true patriots" that you might be referring that lost their lives in defense of our nation and the society we all enjoy regardless of the parts that we find disagreeable.

Baa baa baa!

Could you sound like anymore of a sheep?

So a true patriot is one that blindly follows the govements orders and whims no matter water?

Baa baa

Sorry but if everyone though like you there would not even be a USA! You would still be a UK colony!

a reply to: crazyewok

No what you are describing is a person without regard to their own word or honor, for example if you had a circle of friends or patriots that had goals, a militia perhaps, you do seem like the type that would be the first to reveal their secrets once you found them disagreeable in your own mind, so to others you could not be trusted in any sort of position requiring confidentiality of their operations and how they might wish to achieve them, have you ever sworn to an oath ? or possibly have you ventured to break the oath, if so , where is your line of personal integrity and honor?

originally posted by: phinubian
for example if you had a circle of friends or patriots that had goals, a militia perhaps, you do seem like the type that would be the first to reveal their secrets once you found them disagreeable in your own mind,

If I found them highly illegal and unethical then yes I dam well would!

There is being "honorable" and doing the right thing.

originally posted by: phinubian
have you ever sworn to an oath ?

Yes and as long as they comply with UK law I wont break them.

originally posted by: phinubian
where is your line of personal integrity and honor?

As me and another poster said there is being "honorable" and being a idiot.

Taking honor to the extremes results in gang murders family, honor killings , child molestations and whole army's following insane dictators

Sometimes being "honorable" is not always the right thing and is actually the stupid thing.

Id rather be known for someone that does the right thing not always the "honorable" thing.

The recent announcement by Snowden that he was a spy for the CIA is a blockbuster!
If true, it cancels out any possibility of the US forgiving him and only adds to the charge that he broke espionage laws.

It also makes ridiculous the idea of giving him a parade since it’s clear he may be involved in a complex espionage caper of some sort since he dribbles out information from time to time that casts doubt on his honesty.

Bottom line, we need to keep our power dry regarding Snowden, by not labeling him an enemy of America, but also not giving him a hero’s parade with the scanty and ever changing information we have of him, since we don’t know what goes on and has gone on behind closed doors.

a reply to: crazyewok

Well then I find you to be a very honorable and agreeable individual based on explaining what you really believe, I respect the fact you have that conviction, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but if it breaks the law then I do expect that same honorable individual will have zero problems facing the penalty, not simply mouthing off, making threats, thumbing his nose, just as Snowden, the actual object of this situation has done and now expounding even more of his spying acumen, not a theoretical on what you may do or what some other non existent circumstance might bring to bear.

a reply to: phinubian

I understand your position, and agree that there is as much risk of privacy concerns from the private sector as there is from the government. That, in and of itself, does not alter the fact that wholesale collection of data from American citizens and people abroad without due process is a legal or legitimate act. While the effects of such acts may be rather benign at this point, it has become painfully clear that the erosion of constitutional safeguards will further grant those in power, totalitarian authority.

In your oath, you also swore an oath to willfully obey "lawful Orders" and in point of fact, obeying unlawful orders could result in criminal prosecution for doing so. Not protecting the constitution of the united states and willfully performing acts to circumvent the constitution would be criminal.

In reference to the UKUSA agreement (Albeit it was a cursory overview) relates to the sharing of intelligence between five nations. Not the un-constitutional collection of said data to be shared.

I am not so naive as to think we don't have enemies out there in the world. Most of whom were created by our dismal foreign policies, however, if our goal as a nation is to protect our interest at all costs no matter the means we are no longer on a slippery slope, we're in the middle of an avalanche that will destroy this nation.

If he was lying about being a spy the NSA chief wouldn't have declined to comment, and Kerry wouldn't have said "we won't get into exactly what he did for us". They would crucify him for lying, but they can't. He probably has some proof of it.

Snowden is a true hero and hopefully he won't be the last. I hope his heroism inspires others to take apart this corporate military industrial complex down. He should be welcomed home as a hero. I'm afraid that some wacko would actually believe the anti snowden propaganda and kill him though. I'm afraid a homecoming isn't in the works.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: crazyewok


What this man did, was take classified information and release it to the public, all of the public. That is not treason.

Like it or not, if you have signed a secrets act then that is treason. You don't make the judgement whether you think you should. The location of any North American human assets (spies for want of a better word) is classified information - you think that should be released to all of the public? No, is it just where you want to draw the line?

I'm not sure Snowden is anything other than a glory hunter personally, but that's me.

Okay .. this is too much ...

CBS News ... John Kerry tells Snowden to 'Man Up and Come Home'

John 'Winter Soldier' Kerry telling someone else to 'man up' .... come home and come clean, eh? How about you do that first, Mr. Kerry.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Man up?

Isn't that sexist?

Doesn't that promote the alpha male stereotypes and "male privilege" that progressives have blamed for the mass stabbing in CA?

If a high ranking conservative made that statement I am sure the progressive blogs and MSM would be up in arms!

Especially since Snowden is openly gay!

‘MAN UP,’ ‘DON’T BE A PUSSY’ LABELED OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE AT DUKE UNIVERSITY by CLAIRE E HEALEY - GROVE CITY COLLEGE on APRIL 28, 2014

A new word-discouragement campaign at Duke University has labeled phrases such as “Man Up,” “That’s So Gay,” and “Don’t Be a Pussy” offensive language that “delegitimizes” homosexuality and oppresses and insults people.

www.thecollegefix.com...

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Okay .. this is too much ...

CBS News ... John Kerry tells Snowden to 'Man Up and Come Home'

John 'Winter Soldier' Kerry telling someone else to 'man up' .... come home and come clean, eh? How about you do that first, Mr. Kerry.

Why would he come home?

All he has waiting is 20 to life in a cell and a lot of prison rape waiting for him back at home.

I would not want to come home to that!

a reply to: uncommitted
What Snowden did, is not treason. If the USA was actively engaged in an armed conflict, and he delivered secret information to the group or country that the USA was engaged in said armed conflict with, then it would be treason. Providing, that the US Federal government could provide the proof, evidence and witnesses as prescribed by the law.

There was no witnesses to this, and as far as the public knows, he did not profit from said information, did not sell it to a foreign power. At most the federal government has him on charges of Espionage, as that would be what the laws would entail and show. But there is a catch here, and keep in mind that the federal government has to move very carefully here.

To prove and get him on said charges, the federal government cannot move against him in any other way, and has to show such in a court of law. If they take this to the Treason charge, as you would suggest, then the trial, by law, has to be out in the open, everything has to be put where the public can view it, all of the charges, the evidence against him. None of it can be classified or withheld from the public view. Now if the information is as damming as some would suspect, then the government can not have it out in the open and will go for a lesser charge, that will include prison and jail time.

The precedent is already set and if the federal government tries him for Treason, he will walk from the court a free man. So there is your choice, take him to court on a charge that will not carry weight, and he gets off scott free, or charge him with a lesser crime where he is going to do time. Personally I think that the federal government is not going to take him to court on Treason, cause if they did there are a few other people who should be retried in that case, like John A. Walker, who did far greater damage and did it for profit.

a reply to: crazyewok
The courts have stated in other cases like his, and similar to his, that he broke the law. He released classified information. That is against the law, and the charges would be under the Espionage Act, that is very clear on what the penalties are for. At least he is no John Walker, as he did not do this for profit.