Author: Time to Welcome Snowden Home With Ticker Tape Parade

If the NSA was watching/listening/intercepting/recording all of these people, why wouldn't they spy on their own employees as well?

So the NSA reeeeallllyyy didn't know Snowden was "slurping" data? They couldn't assassinate or "suicide" him? They couldn't divert a flight he was on? They couldn't secretly hold his family hostage?

I think this is some kind of very elaborate dog and pony show. The information Snowden "leaked" was IMO pretty well understood by anyone that cared to investigate. We've known about massive data intercepts in the form of CARNIVORE and ECHELON from way back.

Perhaps I give to much credit to our government, but I'm pretty certain the "watchers" are being watched themselves.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: crazyewok
The courts have stated in other cases like his, and similar to his, that he broke the law. He released classified information. That is against the law, and the charges would be under the Espionage Act, that is very clear on what the penalties are for. At least he is no John Walker, as he did not do this for profit.

Yeah great.

But doesn't answer the key question of why he should willing come home to the USA when all he got waiting for him is a cell, a orange jump suite and some painful shower room memories.

I know i rather stay in Russia....

Yes he done the right thing.

Yes he broke a crap ton of US laws.

But he can have his cake and eat it IE do that and escape a bleak future? Why not!

a reply to: MystikMushroom

So the NSA reeeeallllyyy didn't know Snowden was "slurping" data?

Seriously excellent point. If the NSA is really as big into spying as Snowden says, then there is no way that they would have missed what Snowden was doing. As much as the NSA watches/listens in on us ... you can bet that they do so ten times more with their own.

Either the NSA spying is incompetent and toothless ... or the knew what he was doing and fed him what they wanted him to know and release ...

a reply to: crazyewok
Because he is waiting, the problem is that he is also a pawn, and just doesn't know it. He is waiting for this to die down, to be offered a pardon to come home and think all is going to be right as rain. Most presidents, when leaving office, will give last minute pardons, and if the next sitting president decides to dismantle the NSA or reduce its mandate, then he is hoping that he will be offered a presidential pardon allowing for him to come home.

But what he fails to see, and this much is very clear, is that when it comes to countries and geopolitics, they tend to trade for people, as well as resources. So if the USA were to say capture a high level person of Russian interest and they want it back, care to guess who Russia is going to offer up in exchange? So while yes, right now he has some freedom and is not in jail, he is at the same time, sitting and praying that Russia is much better.

And what happens to him, should Russia decide he is more of a liability than an asset, then where does he go from there? In short he is stuck, he can not just leave the country, not publicly, nor can he simply come home. A jail is still a jail, no matter how lavish it is.

Then again, if the claim he made is true, he very well may disappear in Russia. Sides do you honestly think he is allowed to do what he wants in Russia?

No they are watching him very closely, a good chance where he is living is bugged, everything he says or does is reported back. And if his claims of being a spy is true, he will disappear from public view, as the Russians will want to debrief him. And between you and me, I would rather sit in a prison cell in the USA, than be debriefed by people who used to work for the KGB.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: uncommitted
What Snowden did, is not treason.

Fair do's, I bow to someone with more knowledge of US law. Espionage it is then.

a reply to: uncommitted
If one reads the Constitution of the United States of America, of all of the crimes that can be committed, Treason is the only one that is specifically mentioned. No other crime is mentioned, and the requirements to convict a person of treason is also very much mentioned as well.
Here is what is stated:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Think about it, the US Federal government would have to produce 2 witnesses to swear in an open court that Snowden committed an act of treason. Furthermore, they would have to prove that his actions were used against the USA in a time of war, or he would have to confess in open court to that charge.

Now here is the real problem for the US Government, and this is why they will not charge him with treason. If the information is as bad as the hype suggests or he is a spy as he claims, they can not have such in an open court, cause then they could not present the evidence for all to see. Think about it, if the information is that damming, and you were to prosecute this case, would you want all of it exposed for the entire country to see, as part of the court record? No, and if he is a spy, you do not want him going into open court and giving testimony, as it could compromise further national security. So going by that, they are going to go through with the lesser charge and that way the evidence can be secured and out of sight.

a reply to: FlyersFan
Right, the number one rule of anyone that has dealt with network security, is that you suspect your highest odds on attacker will be an insider.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

I was with you until the "the evidence can be secured and out of sight" bit. Snowden has repeatedly talked about more information that he has, hence me thinking he stole classified information more for the purpose of making himself the poster boy for the CT crowd (which, as this thread shows, he's done a fairly good job of). If he wished to give testimony about being a spy for CIA or any other organisation he could do it where he is right now - couldn't he? I'm sure at some point when he loses some of the limelight he seems to crave then he will be back with more claims.

a reply to: uncommitted
He has already stated he is a spy. Do you not think that the Russian counterparts to those organizations are not paying attention? They were watching along with the rest of the world to what this man stated, and now he is going to find his welcome in Russia will not be so pleasant.

Most countries, when it comes to say a spy defecting or taking refuge, do so carefully. They do so with caution, to see where the person’s loyalties are. His stating he wants to go home would be an indication that he is still loyal to his former country. So the pleasant nature of his stay is going to slowly end. I am sure that his handlers, the FSB, are going to have much more questions for the man, and want answers, as they will be reporting to Putin.

Putin will then have to decide if he wants to continue to keep the man or not. And he will be looked on with suspicion every time he leaves the country, as there will be questions if he is meeting with the CIA. His admission of being such is going to be a complete disaster for him. Or he was told to state such, and is being used. Right now, we will have to wait and see where this leads.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: uncommitted
He has already stated he is a spy.

Yeah, but he's said a lot of things. Not that I expect it would ever be verified one way or another.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I thought he was just responding to a question when he said that.

Here is the definition of a spy.

An agent employed by a state to obtain secret information, especially of a military nature, concerning its potential or actual enemies. One employed by a company to obtain confidential information about its competitors. v.verb To observe secretly with hostile intent. To discover by close observation.

I'd say he qualifies as a spy.

a reply to: phinubian

I can't believe you got stars for this comment.....how else was the public really going to hear about this? And I mean the real truth and nature of the programs. Our government by going up the ladder? Give me a friggin break...