Greenwald's Finale: Naming Victims of Surveillance

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I like the way you put that: "The worst guy to have in the worst losition to have him doing the worst thing he could do"... But can you clarify what you mean by him being the worst type of person ? For when (if) I ever anecdotally repeat this.

It's good that this is being posted. If there's only a small number of names that defends the NSA when they say they're very selective. If there's a couple million names (as I believe there will be), people are going to be pissed when they find themselves on the list.

a reply to: kkrattiger

Oh by worst guy I mean worst to end up doing this from the NSA's perspective. He was a network admin type, which means he had to have access to what everyone else was up to within reason for where he was working, just to do his own job.

I've read now where 2-Man security had been suggested for access to anything highly sensitive with copy ability, and it may have been Snowden himself who mentioned it within one of his reports of having tried to get superiors attention. I don't know if that actually happened or not, but the idea sure is good and the lack of it explains a lot to how this could happen. Admin access with no accountability checking with how sloppy it sounds like they were being?

Oh this list could be real good.. Interesting, anyway.

As much as I am pleased that all this NSA stuff is out in the open now, since no matter how you look at it this information has awakened a large percentage of people who were otherwise sleeping beforehand, I still have a lot of questions...and some of them involve the validity of Mr. Snowden (and Greenwald, among others) himself. To start with, has anyone read this particular article?

pando.com...

It seems Mr. Greenwald (and Matt Taibbi, Jeremy Scahill, Laura Poitras etc.) have left their previous posts in order to start a new on-line digital media venture with eBay founder Pierre Omidyar, called 'The Intercept'. Such would be a noble enterprise, collecting so many esteemed journalists under one roof with the purpose of paying them well for their services and setting them free to right the world - except, there is a small problem here...

...for, it seems, Mr. Omidyar has been confirmed as a known financial contributor to the current push to destabilize the Ukraine, loaning money to further the cause. Now, wouldn't this create some consternation concerning the information that his employers are being paid to put out there? Just how impartial could these journalists be, knowing that their boss is involved in destabilizing countries around the world?

Could it be that these particular journalists, esteemed reporters of wrongdoings world-wide, have been given a 'golden handshake' and given an ultimatum to publish according to party lines for their new found lines of credit, or else... 'Michael Hastings'?

OK, so...if what I say is true, then so what? What are the ramifications?

1. Those running the MSM and saturating the media with the party line realize that there will always be a small percentage who will actively think and ask real, meaningful questions about the 'brainwashing' going on. For them, they have devised a 'counterculture' medium to intercept them and give them information that seems legit, while actually diverting them from the actual goals with half-truths and outright lies.

2. The Snowden information is one such operation, meant to give those of us who yet have some reasoning facilities intact something that seems aboveboard and penetrative into the dark underworld of our shadow government...and indeed, it is - to a degree. Yet, it doesn't really give us enough information to do much about what is going on, and for those of us who are awake - and have been for quite some time - NOTHING that Snowden/Greenwald has published so far is really surprising, as we have kind of suspected all along that something like this has been going on all along.

3. On Mr. Omidyar - now, this really confounds me, personally. I mean, here you have an American with large financial means but who is starting a new digital media enterprise, and he has hired everyone that has basically challenged the MSM with hard-hitting, revelatory articles illustrating the EVIL of our government over the last decade...including Glenn Greenwald, who regularly publishes information given him by Edward Snowden - the same Mr. Snowden who has been publically vilified and threatened with prosecution at the least and outright hanging by lampposts at worst by our elected government representatives...yet, Mr. Omidyar has not elicited a single word of outrage for FUNDING the people behind these revelations? Now, why would this be? Could it be that Mr. Omidyar is perhaps somehow furthering the aims of our shadow government by allowing all this information to get out into the public domain?

Personally, I think Mr. Snowden et. al. is a red herring. I think there are FAR worse things going on than we know of. I believe that the NSA - or whatever branch of government is involved - has capabilities FAR beyond what we know of, and they are letting us know what is coming out now for a couple different reasons: 1. so that we fear doing things on-line due to the ability of the NSA to track everything, and this fear cows us from truly ACTING to free ourselves; 2. so that we fixate on the things the NSA is doing and not pay attention to FAR WORSE things the government is doing.

Plus, there is this: ever hear of the book, 'Catch 22?' Here is the Wikipedia link:

en.wikipedia.org...

Notice that there is a character in the book named 'Snowden', and he dies a gruesome death despite the main character, Yossarian, trying to save him. Now, remember what the phrase 'Catch 22' means in the general lexicon?

'Snowden' was created to wake us up. He is there to make us think, and hope. However, he was fatally wounded from the start, and there was no saving him or hope to be gained from the knowledge he imparts, as it ultimately will mock us as we don't know what really matters...yet if we did, it would be too late to do anything about it.

I pray that I am wrong...

Am I correct in assuming that this list would be of people that have been monitored by Homeland Security as showcased in the episode of Jesse Ventura's 'Conspiracy Theory' (which was banned from repeats on television by the government)? I remember this episode from a few years ago and how Alex Jones and Jesse Ventura went to these alleged "Residential Centers' run by Homeland Security and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. There were also all these control centers cropping up all over America that were data centers for the NSA, I assume, and had the lists of people that would be deemed anti-American or terrorists.

In past documentaries by Alex Jones he showed these Martial Law practices where military police had to sort out all of the American refugees after a (simulated) emergency situation. In one scenario, Christian children were taken and forced to be re-educated. I think this was shown in the film 'End Game'. I have heard variations of this conspiracy and how in the event of an emergency like a flu epidemic, the survivors would be categorized in colored groups: Red, Blue and Green. Red are the Christians and militia types, Blue would be the police forces used to round up the Red group, and the Green would be the keepers that could be re-educated. [Side note: If you have seen the movie 'Prisoners', you will remember how one of the abductees was named Alex Jones and that the main character was a police officer who was forced to round up the militia type who was locked up at the end and blowing a red whistle. Woops, spoiler alert... ]

So this list that Edward Snowden uncovered from hacking the NSA would somehow relate to this above conspiracy? If so, what the people named should do Collectively is try to go green!

a reply to: Snarl

Collectively? I say we, er... they, form a group called "The Violated" and use all the tactics of the defamation league to claim victim status and hold "sit in" style protests all wearing a similar uniform of some sort...naked would be a good one. They already know what we look like naked from spying through our Web cams and cell cams. So we may as well just walk around naked. Our slogan "If you have nothing to hide then you would be naked." Or "should be naked like us." Or something ridiculous like that.

Maybe near naked with skin colored bikinis would be better.

Someone could make shirts for them that say "I was spied on by my goverment" or something like that and then make a YouTube video that shows each of these people for like a half second each so people can see that it's just regular people and you could be next. Or do interviews with some of them to let people make up their own mind if they agree it was an acceptable use of federal time and money (that's OUR time and money that WE pay for) to spy on all these people.

originally posted by: butcherguy
I am patiently waiting for this list to come out.

I will not be checking for my name.
I will be looking for the names of US Senators, Congressmen and members of the SCOTUS.

If we see names like that, the populace will know that our government has been hijacked. What would happen next?

Like the Chief Justice's name, after the closing arguments for Obamacare and before the announcement of the decision

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

His plan to publish names will further unnerve an American intelligence establishment already reeling from 11 months of revelations about US government surveillance activities.

Once the list is published everyone that logs on to see if they're on it will be added to the list.

"Can I see if my name is on the list?"

"Why do you want to see if you're on the list, hmmm?"

From memory in "Gulag Archipelago"…

In Soviet Union under KGB people would be randomly rounded up sometimes to fill work quotas. Once someone was arrested the family would come to the police station to see why they were arrested … and promptly be arrested themselves, charged with some BS and shipped off to work camps, too. It was an easy way to fill quotas. Or make lists of suspects.

I know were not there yet, just musing about "lists" of names.

What you've brought up is actually one of my personal fears, but to know that the KGB actually did what you have claimed has ramped up my paranoia a couple notches.

I would really like to get involved with a movement like join the NRA or support some political group or other, but I know the moment I get on anyone's list, good or bad, I end up on the man's list as a potential terrorist.

Something like this really stops me from getting involved, I'm even afraid to write my representatives any more.

ETA: I have no problem expressing myself here, but at least if I'm on the ATS list, and therefore on the government hit list, it is because of my own opinion and agenda and not that of a group or lobby.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I wouldn't worry about it to much. Enemies of the state are those that don't conform to the workaday regimen. If you work, pay your tax and consume, you can think whatever you like and won't be bothered (much).

The government needs those that support it fiscally, they don't really care what you think as long as you are an earner.

a reply to: thinline

Hear, hear!!!!

That's exactly my thoughts, be interesting to see what politicians, judges, media personalities are on the list as I have firmly believed manipulation has and is ongoing using the abilities that exist with this kind of surveillance - its naked power that is naturally corruptive to those with access.

To anyone believing in the democratic process or representative republicanism - this is its worst enemy.

Get ready to see all 313.9 million Americans on the list, haha.

originally posted by: Bassago
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Yeah, interesting. After reading this earlier (among other articles) it almost seems a moot point now. Anyone outside of the mind controlled propaganda folks are targets. The status quo despises us and it's only a matter of time until the hammer falls. So what will each of us do? I know my answer and suggest others clarify their stance on tyranny.

Most ATS members are probably already logged in the numerous US Fusion centers. My response to them is "Go for it., see what happens." Someone is not going home for dinner tonight.

link to graphic

According to this document, all the categories listed are considered "violent" and part of "Domestic Extremism."

Alternative Media is one of those categories. So I guess we're all on some list somewhere, considered to be "domestic terrorists" for following "interpretations of events and issues that differ radically from those presented in mass media outlets."

If this is a true govt document, then we all are screwed.

When did he say this list would be revealed?

Also I'm sure there are duplicate lists with several other colleagues in case he meets and early demise.

originally posted by: thinline

originally posted by: butcherguy
I am patiently waiting for this list to come out.

I will not be checking for my name.
I will be looking for the names of US Senators, Congressmen and members of the SCOTUS.

If we see names like that, the populace will know that our government has been hijacked. What would happen next?

Like the Chief Justice's name, after the closing arguments for Obamacare and before the announcement of the decision

That is the one case that stands out.
I wonder sometimes about all of the whackadoodle Republicans like Boehner saying that we can't get rid of Obamacare, maybe they have been blackmailed too.... I would be willing to bet that 90% of the Washington politicians have skeletons in their closets that are blackmail worthy.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I agree. I think this is precisely the kind of material many Americans like myself were hoping would be coming out. Dirty deeds done regarding Americans and widespread with specifics to personalize it all. This is what could bring change.

If his list is showing citizens and it covers the high society down to the middle-lower/middle class type folks? That could be one heck of a unifier in collective outrage. This has also built in a bi-partisan chain of outrageous things to get here, so the worst case scenario for politicians. Both sides mad at the same time and ....at the same thing.

I would assume that a good number of those names will be well-known. Hopefully a lot of Hollywood types will be on there, too. Get a large group of influential people angry enough, and things might start to happen to bring the NSA down.

I want to know why information about the UFO/alien coverup isn't being released; lots of people do. A lot of people have been expecting there to be revelations along this line from what Snowden uncovered. I'm disappointed that it is still being covered up.

a reply to: dovdov
Just a guess, but I suspect Snowden thinks of himself as a patriot, not someone committing treason. If the secret UFO files involve classified technology like project Mogul in the Roswell files, he may not want to reveal any information about any such classified technology. He seems to have a problem with all the illegal spying so that's been the focus. I'll bet he has a lot more information we've never seen that he won't share. Information regarding classified tech may take 50 years to reveal through official channels, like the Roswell stuff did.

In other old documents that have been declassified, we learned that the government didn't have any idea what was being seen in the unsolved cases. I would guess there are fewer of those in more recent times with better technology.

Regarding the OP topic, I assumed they were spying on everybody.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

It's like a bad reality show (if there are actually any good ones) because the protagonist in this case, Greenwalde, is playing the standardized, time tested, get-the-anticipation-up waiting game. This makes me believe the entire thing, Snowden, Greenwalde, etc. are controlled opposition. For what purpose I am not sure, but dealing with alleged "secrets" that could effect the entire world at worst and a few million people at best, needs exposure, not game-show-host games.

These people should crap or get off the pot.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Well, I give Greenwald a little slack here that Snowden doesn't get. While Snowden has been off hiding like a kid from his parents, all safe and sound with the Russians? Greenwald has been the one having quality time spent with British and probably American intelligence under conditions any of us would call hostile at the very least.

Snowden risks his public image and since landing in Hong Kong? Has had nothing but him image at true risk. Greenwald still has the goods to get him killed in such a way that history never even has evidence he died, let alone who or how. He's still out in public and standing behind his actions with his head held up ...not asking the enemy of his home nation to protect him.

I respect Greenwald, even if his every last action isn't one I'd have ever done. Some yes..Some? No way..but I respect it all for the man, motivations and end results he's bringing with it. Snowden? Well....If he really has nothing left? Then it won't break my heart if a random act of senseless violence came across the news from Moscow regarding some American upstart hiding in the shadows.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

The problem remains that this entire affair is being treated like it is being run by a game-show host. That creates a loss of credibility in my opinion as there are only two reasons for the delay in release; 1. it's controlled opposition in which case it's all about the money and 2. it's all about selling books which is all about the money.

I'll take 3 letters Alex and say "it's all about the money."

Cheers - Dave