Greenwald's Finale: Naming Victims of Surveillance

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I am interested to see this list. It will hit home. We don't know how big it is, we don't know if there are politicians on there, or regular people, or what.

For a lot of people it could make them second guess their "I'm not doing anything wrong so I have nothing to worry about" mantra.

a reply to: darkbake

Unless there's 150 million+ names on it I think it's going to have the opposite effect. People are going to find out that their names aren't on it, take that as a reaffirmation that they're a good person and the government system is good, and rationalize the few hundred thousand-million on it as bad people that need to be watched.

This is important. The NSA, Prism, and so on seem to continue to be an area where the average American is totally asleep or doesn't really care. Before Snowden and Greenwald, most people would have called reports of such activities tin-foil conspiracies. They still believed and still do that the CIA, NSA, and Pentagon are lovey dovey, all about fighting dem evil "terrorists," ONLY ever use force or spying abroad to foster human rights and democracy, with pure motives, and if you gave them a chance, would love to have hot cocoa with you and cuddle up like a teddy bear. This is one reason why the average citizen is not afraid of such surveillance. If big brother is so lovey dovey and also all about human freedoms and liberties across the world, then of course from that premise such powers are in the hands of the good.

The second reason is that most people would rather stay psychologically in their pre-existing paradigm and comfort zone, and would rather justify such spying through cognitive dissonance than actually become uncomfortable and see it as wrong, even though such spying poses a danger to all of us.

The third reason is that most people do not understand the history of surveillance, civil liberties, and police powers across the world and the slippery slope that other countries have gone down into tyranny, for example in communist countries or far right dictatorships.

The fourth and final related reason for a lack of care and acknowledgement of my previous points is that most Americans have been totally brainwashed by American exceptionalism and the prevalence of 6th grade level understandings of global and domestic affairs to believe that America is impervious to the mistakes that other countries have made. "I mean sure joe-bob, them communists can't be trusted to have unlimited surveillance, but hell, our CIA and NSA be bible-believing patriot Christians. Sean Hannity done tell me so."

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000

The man who helped bring about the most significant leak in American intelligence history is to reveal names of US citizens targeted by their own government in what he promises will be the “biggest” revelation from nearly 2m classified files.

Glenn Greenwald, the journalist who received the trove of documents from Edward Snowden, a former National Security Agency (NSA) contractor, told The Sunday Times that Snowden’s legacy would be “shaped in large part” by this “finishing piece” still to come.

His plan to publish names will further unnerve an American intelligence establishment already reeling from 11 months of revelations about US government surveillance activities.

Greenwald's Finale: Naming Victims of Surveillance

Oh goodness.... This might be a whopper and one to really shake things up!

Who HAS the NSA actually spied on, to get down to the brass tacks. What companies, which people and whom among the public have they been peeping on and listening to like creeps outside a window?

It sounds like we may be about to find out. There are different levels of different acts in this whole thing, and that's not justifications, that's statement of fact. As much as it was for Woodward and Bernstein contrasted with who Deepthroat turned out to be, vs. lesser leakers and so on.

One here was a bona fide credentialed journalist and acted with the backing of a recognized news organization. Good for him, as probably the cleanest of the whole lot, and certainly with the most obvious motives.

I'll be looking forward to finding this final part for his writing when it pops up and spreads out. Afterall...

....are any of our names on it? (looks around the audience)

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
This is important. The NSA, Prism, and so on seem to continue to be an area where the average American is totally asleep or doesn't really care. Before Snowden and Greenwald, most people would have called reports of such activities tin-foil conspiracies. They still believed and still do that the CIA, NSA, and Pentagon are lovey dovey, all about fighting dem evil "terrorists,"

That just goes to show the power of propaganda through TV and movies.

The masses will believe anything as long as they are told it enough.

And nothing will come of this. The majority of People hear and buy into the msm angle. This 2 shall pass and the sheep will continue eating blindly. Not even a hiccup will occur.

originally posted by: interupt42
And nothing will come of this. The majority of People hear and buy into the msm angle. This 2 shall pass and the sheep will continue eating blindly. Not even a hiccup will occur.

Im no soothsayer but I would hazard a guess that you are 100% right.
Nothing came of any of the other allegations.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: darkbake

Unless there's 150 million+ names on it I think it's going to have the opposite effect. People are going to find out that their names aren't on it, take that as a reaffirmation that they're a good person and the government system is good, and rationalize the few hundred thousand-million on it as bad people that need to be watched.

There you go. I agree.

I have a feeling that list is going to be very long.

a reply to: darkbake

Indeed.. in returning back toward the topic.. lol.... I am looking forward to seeing it, too.

If Greenwald did pull the names by a collection wide search as opposed to some list of names already in there from the NSA, it could be extremely interesting. Never know who may be on something that is mined that way.

originally posted by: OneManArmy

originally posted by: interupt42
And nothing will come of this. The majority of People hear and buy into the msm angle. This 2 shall pass and the sheep will continue eating blindly. Not even a hiccup will occur.

Im no soothsayer but I would hazard a guess that you are 100% right.
Nothing came of any of the other allegations.

It brings me no joy in stating that, but that is just what I have seen time and time again.

We have started wars under false information, have had presidents killed , billions of dollars unaccounted for, Gov't connected madams have disappeared, billions taken from tax payers to bailout lobbying private firms, manipulation of the market, billions spent overseas yet many here don't have a pot to p1ss on, wealthy congressman becoming extremely wealthy after office, certain laws like insider trading not illegal for them, II can go on and on but the end result is always the same. They do what they want and they get away with it.

People care more about sports , Hollywood gossip, and posting motivational quotes on Facebook than realize that our gov't no longer works for the people but rather the highest bidding lobbyist or themselves. The most the majority does in regards to politics is to blame the other side.

This too will become a republican versus democrat issue and while the masses beat themselves to death over who is to blame they will continue laughing to the bank. Its a proven system and its been working for them flawlessly . The only thing that threw a little wrench on the process was the internet which they are taking care by repealing net neutrality.


The only way I see this as any impact to the system is if the list contained the names of every registered democrat and republican. Than maybe the masses will start to wake up.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Before Snowden and Greenwald, most people would have called reports of such activities tin-foil conspiracies. They still believed and still do that the CIA, NSA, and Pentagon are lovey dovey, all about fighting dem evil "terrorists," ONLY ever use force or spying abroad to foster human rights and democracy, with pure motives, and if you gave them a chance, would love to have hot cocoa with you and cuddle up like a teddy bear.

Well, quite frankly, those would have been people willfully ignorant of what the Government was doing to them and through them, in their name. Take this for instance.....

The giant spy agency, Maryland's largest employer, has been the subject of intense controversy in Britain and across Europe since a report released in January by the European Parliament concluded that "within Europe, all e-mail, telephone and fax communications are routinely intercepted by the United States National Security Agency."

That sounds like a current headline eh? Surely it's from Snowden's disclosures, for how revolutionary the media has made them sound.

In fact ..if I just ..ahem..redact something here..hehe

The report focused on a system called (NOTHING TO SEE HERE) through which the NSA and its spy partners in Britain, Canada, New Zealand and Australia share communications intercepted from around the world and systematically divide the huge task of analyzing the "take."

"Each of the five [countries] supply 'dictionaries' to the other four of keywords, phrases, people and places to 'tag,' and the tagged intercept is forwarded straight to the requesting country," according to the report.

Source

It pretty much describes what IS happening right now (and that co-working is how they've spied on their own populations without "actually" spying on their own populations for a couple decades, at least).

Outraged we should be..... Wrong it surely was!

So .. Arg! Where was the outrage? The "redaction" was the Project name "Echelon", and that article was written in 1998 by the Washington Post. (Oh and the title of the article is something they directly debunk before going into what was known) A couple others...not exactly timely, and that's kinda the point.

ECHELON Online Surveillance /1998

. . . and they don't give a damn about personal privacy or commercial confidence. Project 415 is a top-secret new global surveillance system. It can tap into a billion calls a year in the UK alone. Inside Duncan Campbell on how spying entered the 21st century . . .

Source / 1988

Interview with a former US operative, now in Australia, of America's National Security Agency / 1973

Snowden should have known that just 'giving society a chance' was a pointless gesture, and I have a hard time believing he didn't. The NSA's capability and potential wasn't all THAT hidden, and something of an open secret. They've turned a bit more inward since 2001, but same old game with better equipment.

There is very little to anything NEW, except the high tech face put on the same old stuff No Such Agency got the nick name for. What IS new is what doesn't help US to know...but was gold to countries having to counter it.

Thanks for the reply and mention of Echelon. I think that many of us were aware that such surveillance was probably happening and has been for decades. For whatever reason, most Americans still seemed unaware of the level of such surveillance until Snowden, for better or worse.

It's also difficult to be "willfully ignorant" if most of the mainstream media is controlled/owned/influenced by the military-industrial complex and its allies. Information is controlled to the extent that counter-information provided through alternative sources is viewed as lies or silly conspiracies by most people. There is a mental veil or almost dream state present in the average person.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Before Snowden and Greenwald, most people would have called reports of such activities tin-foil conspiracies. They still believed and still do that the CIA, NSA, and Pentagon are lovey dovey, all about fighting dem evil "terrorists," ONLY ever use force or spying abroad to foster human rights and democracy, with pure motives, and if you gave them a chance, would love to have hot cocoa with you and cuddle up like a teddy bear.

Well, quite frankly, those would have been people willfully ignorant of what the Government was doing to them and through them, in their name. Take this for instance.....

The giant spy agency, Maryland's largest employer, has been the subject of intense controversy in Britain and across Europe since a report released in January by the European Parliament concluded that "within Europe, all e-mail, telephone and fax communications are routinely intercepted by the United States National Security Agency."

That sounds like a current headline eh? Surely it's from Snowden's disclosures, for how revolutionary the media has made them sound.

In fact ..if I just ..ahem..redact something here..hehe

The report focused on a system called (NOTHING TO SEE HERE) through which the NSA and its spy partners in Britain, Canada, New Zealand and Australia share communications intercepted from around the world and systematically divide the huge task of analyzing the "take."

"Each of the five [countries] supply 'dictionaries' to the other four of keywords, phrases, people and places to 'tag,' and the tagged intercept is forwarded straight to the requesting country," according to the report.

Source

It pretty much describes what IS happening right now (and that co-working is how they've spied on their own populations without "actually" spying on their own populations for a couple decades, at least).

Outraged we should be..... Wrong it surely was!

So .. Arg! Where was the outrage? The "redaction" was the Project name "Echelon", and that article was written in 1998 by the Washington Post. (Oh and the title of the article is something they directly debunk before going into what was known) A couple others...not exactly timely, and that's kinda the point.

ECHELON Online Surveillance /1998

. . . and they don't give a damn about personal privacy or commercial confidence. Project 415 is a top-secret new global surveillance system. It can tap into a billion calls a year in the UK alone. Inside Duncan Campbell on how spying entered the 21st century . . .

Source / 1988

Interview with a former US operative, now in Australia, of America's National Security Agency / 1973

Snowden should have known that just 'giving society a chance' was a pointless gesture, and I have a hard time believing he didn't. The NSA's capability and potential wasn't all THAT hidden, and something of an open secret. They've turned a bit more inward since 2001, but same old game with better equipment.

There is very little to anything NEW, except the high tech face put on the same old stuff No Such Agency got the nick name for. What IS new is what doesn't help US to know...but was gold to countries having to counter it.

originally posted by: Bassago
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Yeah, interesting. After reading this earlier (among other articles) it almost seems a moot point now. Anyone outside of the mind controlled propaganda folks are targets. The status quo despises us and it's only a matter of time until the hammer falls. So what will each of us do? I know my answer and suggest others clarify their stance on tyranny.

Most ATS members are probably already logged in the numerous US Fusion centers. My response to them is "Go for it., see what happens." Someone is not going home for dinner tonight.

link to graphic

Special note must be made of 'Alternative Media'. I've been consuming that for twenty years or so. I can hardly wait to access that data.

Where's this dang list, already? I have been waiting in anticipation.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Any idea on when this story is coming out? I hope someone on ATS keeps an eye out for it.

a reply to: darkbake
I saw your post come up in my subscribed threads, and I am thinking, 'Wow, maybe there has been a release.'
Dang it.
Maybe Greenwald received a message from the gubbermint goons telling him that people he love may have unfortunate accidents if he releases the list.

I'm not finding this by looking in the normal spots. I have the rest of Greenwald's book, complete except for this. The place I got the rest either isn't touching this or he hasn't put it out? Frankly, I am torn in several directions at once right now for focus so I'm also not able to turn my usual effort toward running this down right now either.

I think we'd all be very appreciative if someone else happened to post an update, if an update comes along that is worthy of posting!

I saw an interview, think it was the beginning of June, where he stated they had 4 to 6 weeks of work before release. Maybe in July it will be released.

I check The Intercept every day, and Greenwalds Twitter feed (though I do not tweet or even have an acct for that matter)-- That's how anxious I am for the list to be released! COME ON, already!
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

To begin with, I don’t trust Snowden, Greenwald or any of the others who’ve been so eagerly stirring up social/moral outrage and destabilizing relations between nations by releasing these “revelations” for those who’ve been in a coma for the past 40 years. I think their motivations are strictly self-serving and they’re simply wallowing in their 15 minutes of narcissistic fame. The government(s) may make superficial changes just to pacify the sheep, but I’d lay odds the intelligence establishment and spy agencies don’t miss a step, and instead will get even more sophisticated and intrusive as technology advances. And believe me, every nation does this to the very best of their ability. So, Mr. Snowden, Mr. Greenwald, et al, if you’re reading this all I can say to you is, “Thanks for the drama, but you haven’t accomplished a damn thing”.

I don’t know about you, but I haven’t been plotting to overthrow of the government or thinking about blowing up anything lately. Besides, whatever information the NSA, CIA, FBI, blah, blah, blah has about me probably pales in comparison to what the corporate world has on me. It just keeps getting better and better. Soon you will have the “Internet of Things” coming into your community via our beloved Google and a few other companies. If you ever thought maybe you were losing it because you suspected your refrigerator and toaster were conspiring against you, don’t be so hard on yourself; soon you may have a valid argument to back that claim. Not only will your appliances be recording your every move at home, they will also learn to talk to each other, compare notes and will be routing your personal information to various interested parties/companies. Christ, if that’s not bad enough, for years now on any day of the week ANYONE can go to any number of sites that proudly reveal every embarrassing, sordid detail of your personal life for only a couple bucks. Your whole life and every skeleton in your closet is only a couple keystrokes away for ANYONE (friends, employers, family, etc) who cares to look. Your life (and mine) is an open book, and has been for a long time now. And that’s what I call intrusive and is a privacy rights issue in my book.

Actually, I think it’s wrong on Mr. Greenwald’s part to publish any lists revealing personal information about private citizens. Maybe some people don’t want this information released for public consumption. And besides, I don’t know how he’s compiling these lists. You know, it’s quite easy for someone to mine lots of data about an individual and present it in a misleading, distorted fashion and totally out of context. I have a nagging feeling that he could do something of this sort to arouse public anger and disorder, thereby putting another feather in his hat as a crusader for the people. At least the spy agencies aren’t publicizing everything they know about you for the whole world to see. What makes him think it’s OK for him to do it?

Griping is easy. Solutions, and doing the right thing, requires a little more effort...