NJ Public School sued over "Under God" in Pledge of Allegiance

Why does it had to be in the school in the first place? Can we go to everyone and tell them this is what majority wants, so your minority rights means nothing?

Damn, what is this 1930s? back of the bus!.

There are many this can apply to, race, religion, sexual orientation etc.


Those should keep their mouth shut as well?

originally posted by: luciddream
Why does it had to be in the school in the first place? Can we go to everyone and tell them this is what majority wants, so your minority rights means nothing?

Damn, what is this 1930s? back of the bus!.

There are many this can apply to, race, religion, sexual orientation etc.


Those should keep their mouth shut as well?

What about those who are perfectly comfortable with including gods in their pledge to America? Or those who want to? We can't please everyone 100%, so what's your idea of a good compromise?

a reply to: rickynews

very few to undermine the principles which America was founded

I do not think you know the countries history.

The words "under god" should be removed from the pledge. The original wasn't written with the words "under god" were added in 1954.

The Pledge of Allegiance A Short History

In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

Dr. Mortimer Adler, American philosopher and last living founder of the Great Books program at Saint John's College, has analyzed these ideas in his book, The Six Great Ideas. He argues that the three great ideas of the American political tradition are 'equality, liberty and justice for all.' 'Justice' mediates between the often conflicting goals of 'liberty' and 'equality.'

In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

"humanist" group based out of Washington, D.C is attempting to change and re-write the values of the majority of Americans.

Actually they are trying to change things "back" to what this country was founded upon.

Can we expect the Atheists to claim Americans can no longer celebrate the tradition of Thanksgiving, because "giving thanks to a God that doesn't exist" is an insult to them?

So who told you thanksgiving was about giving thanks to god? It was about giving thanks for the blessing of the harvest and of the preceding year and even though many feel that is a religious nature many secularists also celebrated it in the past and present. There was neve any need for god to be brought into the mix. In the US my family observed the holiday and it was all about the Turkey and corn/maze American Indians introduction of the crop. If you want it to be all religious have at it I couldn't care less but don't try to force your views on me.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

it would have been un uncapatalized c

u know creator,,Mom and Dad.

unless u were obeying the Commandment about honouring ones mother and father.

then maybe.
hey its an actual Document.
big C

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: BobAthome

I don't know about you, but my Creator(s) were my mom and dad.

ya they had more respect back then.
Creator.
big C

originally posted by: Grimpachi
...it was all about the...corn/maze...

I knew what you meant but I got a visual of all these pilgrims stumbling about lost in the cornfield.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: luciddream
Why does it had to be in the school in the first place? Can we go to everyone and tell them this is what majority wants, so your minority rights means nothing?

Damn, what is this 1930s? back of the bus!.

There are many this can apply to, race, religion, sexual orientation etc.


Those should keep their mouth shut as well?

What about those who are perfectly comfortable with including gods in their pledge to America? Or those who want to? We can't please everyone 100%, so what's your idea of a good compromise?

Good compromise = get rid of the god part which was added much later(1954 or so), if it can be added, it can be deleted.

Extreme Compromise = get rid of the whole pledge in school.

a reply to: BobAthome

You're going to have to prove the big C version there buddy. Until then, the only creator(s) responsible for my presence on earth are my mom and dad.

originally posted by: BobAthome

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: BobAthome

I don't know about you, but my Creator(s) were my mom and dad.

ya they had more respect back then.
Creator.
big C

Yeah,
Those founding fathers had sooooo much respect for the big C version of the creator that Jefferson went and wrote his own version if the bible and took all the supernatural godlike magic out of it. What did the church call people like that? Oh yeah, heretics. Not exactly a term synonymous with respect for the Christian Lord of the Rings.

originally posted by: luciddream

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: luciddream
Why does it had to be in the school in the first place? Can we go to everyone and tell them this is what majority wants, so your minority rights means nothing?

Damn, what is this 1930s? back of the bus!.

There are many this can apply to, race, religion, sexual orientation etc.


Those should keep their mouth shut as well?

What about those who are perfectly comfortable with including gods in their pledge to America? Or those who want to? We can't please everyone 100%, so what's your idea of a good compromise?

Good compromise = get rid of the god part which was added much later(1954 or so), if it can be added, it can be deleted.

Extreme Compromise = get rid of the whole pledge in school.

That's not a compromise, that's getting your way and pretending its a compromise.

a reply to: Krazysh0t



see,, big C.

a reply to: peter vlar

"Jefferson went and wrote his own version if the bible"
i did not know that,,,

I'll check it,,


out.





never lol

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
What about those who are perfectly comfortable with including gods in their pledge to America? Or those who want to? We can't please everyone 100%, so what's your idea of a good compromise?

Say the pledge 500 times a day... just not in school. Then you get to say it as many times as you want and kids who don't want to (and don't want to be embarrassed or excluded during school) don't have to.

Everybody's happy!

a reply to: BobAthome

MANY words in that document are capitalized. Safety and Happiness for example.

a reply to: BobAthome

It would appear to me that there was some contention over what word to use in lieu of "God", otherwise they would have used "God" outright. It would seem that the use of the word 'Creator' is evidence of a compromise between those who wished to acknowledge a higher power and those who felt it served no practical purpose. This would explain the capital C, as a denotation of the significance which was meant to be assigned with the use of the word, in order to compensate for the lack of clarity regarding precisely what entity was being referred to.

a reply to: BobAthome

Of course you won't check it out. Why bother expanding your knowledge when it's far more comfortable to stay cozy in your insular little world with your finger in your ears so the bad people can't echo through the voices. Hey, it's your life and your prerogative. I just don't see the point of being ignorant just because you disagree with something.

a reply to: peter vlar

" I just don't see the point of being ignorant"
so don't be.

u made a claim,, as factal,,""Jefferson went and wrote his own version if the bible" ,, where is the link/evidence,, its your claim.

it like saying "have u stopped beating your wife"?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Ha-ha yeah. It is sort of an off day where I am having a bit of trouble articulating my thoughts. Without spellcheck I would be done for.

I just finished reading the thread and this isn't directed at you particularly so please don't think I am attacking.


As far as the lawsuit goes I do agree it seems frivolous at first glance, but this can sometimes be how bigger changes are made or precedents are set. If a court finds that reciting the pledge with the term "under god" is unconstitutional as it breaks the establishment clause then not only will that school be affected others will as well.

Of course there is the option where people can opt out of saying the pledge however that can cause division. Doing so essentially singles people out as either unpatriotic or godless maybe even both.

Ideally the phrase "under god" should be removed and the pledge should be recited as it was originally written and intended by the author Francis Bellamy. It is interesting that when he originally wrote the pledge he contemplated placing the word 'equality' within it however in those times many were against equality for both women and minorities. If changes were to have been made to his work they should have done so keeping in mind what he was actually hopeful for.

If the goals of the secularist group are what I think they are which is to change the pledge ( after some time in courts) perhaps the end result will reflect the authors original intent.

Whenever the issue of religion and public school comes up I always think about "The Louisiana Public School Cramming Christianity Down Students’ Throats" where a poor Buddhist kids rights were trampled on. As I am sure it is known I am strongly against any type of state sponsored religious power. Give them an inch they will take infinity + 1 miles.

a reply to: BobAthome

from Wiki

The Jefferson Bible, or The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth as it is formally titled, was a book constructed by Thomas Jefferson in the latter years of his life by cutting and pasting with a razor and glue numerous sections from the New Testament as extractions of the doctrine of Jesus. Jefferson's condensed composition is especially notable for its exclusion of all miracles by Jesus and most mentions of the supernatural, including sections of the four gospels which contain the Resurrection and most other miracles, and passages indicating Jesus was divine

Pretty easy to find. But even this uses the life of Jesus so was it really so different from the Bible? Did it not also reference God? The Christian God I mean.

a reply to: 200Plus

I quote, from your Wiki,,

"Thomas Jefferson believed that the ethical system of Jesus was the finest the world has ever seen"

Jesus the Son of God.
The Creator,,,

now your quote


"Yeah,
Those founding fathers had sooooo much respect for the big C version of the creator that Jefferson went and wrote his own version if the bible and took all the supernatural godlike magic out of it. What did the church call people like that? Oh yeah, heretics. Not exactly a term synonymous with respect for the Christian Lord of the Rings."

so your point was that Jefferson was a Heritic????????????


and same answer too you as well.
that jefferson was not Christian???