NJ Public School sued over "Under God" in Pledge of Allegiance

a reply to: 200Plus

While on the surface it may make me look somewhat hasty and foolish, it very much supports my supposition that religion is and should be a personal endeavour not to be flaunted and cheapened in public. Take a gander at the Jefferson bible. It's a rather interesting read and gives a great deal if insight as to TJ's thoughts on christiantity.

a reply to: peter vlar

My post was not meant to make anyone look hasty or foolish.

I honestly think you, me, and Jefferson agree more than it would appear

We just have different ways of conveying the same thoughts.

Jefferson just happens to win every time.

We all have gods or Gods depending on the person. The question one has to ask is what are you willing to live your life for and sacrifice everything for? Answer that question and you will have found your god or God. (YOU in general of course)

a reply to: rickynews

What if it read "under allah" would christians get offended?

a reply to: rickynews

What if it read "under allah" would christians get offended?

originally posted by: rickynews
A Humanist group is suing a New Jersey public school for following a NJ state law which requires students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

The group believes that the words "Under God" should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance because it discriminates against "atheist children". The Attorney for the group suing the NJ school stated “Such a daily exercise portrays atheist and humanist children as second-class citizens, and certainly contributes to anti-atheist prejudices”

An Attorney for NJ Public schools released the following statement: “We are disappointed that this national organization has targeted Matawan-Aberdeen for merely obeying the law as it stands”

Once again, our liberties,freedoms and traditions are under attack. The notion that the words "Under God" are in anyway discriminatory is not only a complete farce, but is also an organized effort by the very few to undermine the principles which America was founded. And in NJ, it is in fact the state law.

Very few Americans have an objection to the words 'Under God" in the Pledge, yet a frivolous lawsuit by a small "humanist" group based out of Washington, D.C is attempting to change and re-write the values of the majority of Americans. This type of atheist group is a "religion" in itself, as is Atheism itself.

The Atheists agenda is clear... Remove Almighty God from every reference, and from every document, and soon thereafter, you remove Him from altogether from Americans. In a world where Good vs. evil continues to battle, it's not difficult to recognize those who stand for what is right and just, and those who stand with diabolical forces.

What's next? Can we expect the Atheists to claim Americans can no longer celebrate the tradition of Thanksgiving, because "giving thanks to a God that doesn't exist" is an insult to them?

Story link found here: www.foxnews.com...

The words "Under God" were not in the original penning of the pledge of allegiance. Also, our constitutional rights include the right to choose whether or not we say those words, as they qualify as "religion". But this big fuss is completely unnecessary. If you don't want to say the words, omit them when you get to that line, and finish the rest of the pledge. It doesn't take a whole lot of common sense to close your mouth when it comes time to say those two words. That's all it takes. Problem solved.

Additionally, YOUR personal comments on the matter do NOT reflect our constitutional rights. We have the freedom to practice religion or abstain, and your disdain for anyone who resists the status quo is most unsettling. Not unexpected, but unsettling. The very least you can stand for is the American constitution, as an American. The same constitution that guarantees your right to post on this forum with impunity.

originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: luciddream

Does it mention a Christian God?

It could be one Nation under Marduk - if that's what YOU want it to be.
It could be one Nation under "the self" - if that's what you want it to be.
It could be one Nation under the Flying Spaghetti Monster in the Sky - if that's what you want it to be.

Even the Christian Bible says there are many gods. Why do people attack the Christian religion when any God is mentioned?

Could it be more anti-Christian sentiment rather than anti-god?

I sometimes have to wonder.

Really? I'd love to see a letter from the Vatican supporting your claim that Christian doctrine includes the existence of multiple gods. Preferably signed by the Pope himself. Polytheism is pagan-based and therefore blasphemy, so good luck getting that letter.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

1 Corinthians 8:5

Don't look to the "Holy Mother Church" for anything about God. Everything they do is 180 degrees from what was handed down to them (another topic perhaps).

originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: AfterInfinity

1 Corinthians 8:5

Don't look to the "Holy Mother Church" for anything about God. Everything they do is 180 degrees from what was handed down to them (another topic perhaps).

Oh, well I guess that means you can make any claim you want. Hooray for you.

I think it's a pretty lame thing to pledge allegiance in a public location in a secular nation to begin with. But if I were forced to (which I never was), I just wouldn't say the words that "offended" me. And if I were forced to say the words (which no one is but just for the sake of argument), they would still be meaningless to me. Just as no one is preventing anyone from praying or forcing them to pray, no one is forcing anyone to say meaningless words. While I understand what bothers them about this, suing the school seems to be a total waste of everyone's time, money, and effort.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

I didn't make ANY CLAIM I WANT - I gave you the passage in the Bible that I mentioned. Why do I need a letter from the Vatican to read the Bible?

Who are you Torquemada?

originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: AfterInfinity

I didn't make ANY CLAIM I WANT - I gave you the passage in the Bible that I mentioned. Why do I need a letter from the Vatican to read the Bible?

Who are you Torquemada?

And who is to say that that particular line was not referring to gods and idols made by men?

I hope one day that Christianity will be gone. It's only a matter of time, they are Bronze Age teachings after all.
However, lawsuits like these are not the way it's going to happen.
This whole thing is a waste of time.

originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: AfterInfinity

1 Corinthians 8:5

Don't look to the "Holy Mother Church" for anything about God. Everything they do is 180 degrees from what was handed down to them (another topic perhaps).

That specific line makes it look like the church is admitting there are many gods worshipped by man but when you read all of Corinthians what it's really talking about worshipping of false idols and eating offerings left to those idols. E line prior to the one you refaced says:

4Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.

Making it pretty clear that god/Jehovah/Yahweh what ever you want to call him is the only true and real god.
Te succeeding line confirms this by stating:

6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him

People may dislike my lack of religiosity but its not based on ignorance. I was a bible edumacated mofo who went to church 6 days a week and was an altar boy for years. I can still recite the entire mass by heart if I show up at a wedding or funeral.

i understand ol torky could actually read...
unlike some self appointed inquisitor types one might encounter these days

they had books and papers he had to follow
but he was the consequence for not swearing allegiance to the pope...
at least in the US you can choose atheism or what ever
and as long as you don't have multiple wives or gay marriage in your agenda you should be OK

and the word god?
applies to any and all gods not just christian ones...

a reply to: AfterInfinity

And who is to say God was not made by men?

Christianity is 2000 years old, Judaism is a few thousand years older. Man had religions for tens of thousands of years before then. Where was God during that time. Where has he been for the last two thousand years. Seems you need that letter from the Vatican more than I do. I need no confirmation for what I believe.

As a New Jersey resident I think they should be addressing this to the State Legislature as it is part of the Constitution of New Jersey. Suing the local municipalities only causes the resident's property taxes to increase when forced to defend against this suit in regards a law they did not write. Higher property taxes will certainly not endear me to your cause even if I think you may have a point in an issue.

a reply to: peter vlar

That's why I wrote this in an earlier post -

We all have gods or Gods depending on the person. The question one has to ask is what are you willing to live your life for and sacrifice everything for? Answer that question and you will have found your god or God. (YOU in general of course)

a reply to: beezzer

To the athiests who want to ban "Under God", you are a bunch of narrow-minded idiots who will be burning books if we allowed it.

Narrow minded? How about we take turns, and some days the kids say: Insha'Allah? Hare Krishna? Jah Rastafari?

Idiots? :-)

Separation of church and state - that's what this is about. It's school - not a Christian church. It's also not an indoctrination camp where kids learn to submit to the will of their country or love it unconditionally and unquestioningly

Asking kids to pledge allegiance to anything before they're even old enough to vote is ridiculous

You say just don't say it if we don't like it. Give me one good reason why your desire to say it should come first - before neutrality - which is fair to everyone

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

To the people who disagree with the Pledge . . . .

Then don't effing SAY IT!
Don't agree with it?

DON'T SAY IT!

You don't own this country Beeze - I live here too

I'm just as American as you are

You can say whatever you want about God in your own personal world on your own time in your own way. There's no reason I should have to honor your belief system in a place that's meant for everyone

originally posted by: beezzer
To the athiests who want to ban "Under God", you are a bunch of narrow-minded idiots who will be burning books if we allowed it.

Oh, you sweet-talker, you! And you're simply incorrect. I am neither a narrow-minded idiot, nor do I want books banned.

originally posted by: 200Plus
1 Corinthians 8:5

LOL Maybe you should read it.

4 Concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but One.

5 For though there be what are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many “gods” and many “lords”),

6 yet to us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we in Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ by whom are all things, and we by Him.

Too bad people who quote the bible don't really know what they're talking about...