Russian Jet Provokes U.S. Military Naval Ship

VirusGuard
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

"AS for the American Indians thing, I could easily point to wrong doings by your country hundreds of years ago. Are you a Brit? What about the Irish? The Scots? Virtual enslavement of the India? Are you a Digger? What about the aborigines? German--well there's not much to be said about them, that's pretty obvious."

Yes I can agree with all of that and yes I know my history but today it is the USA thats doing the wrongs and this places the world at risk when picking a fight with a nuclear power like Russia and what makes it worse is that Russia IMHO is not in the wrong here.

Now if the USA wants a fight with Russia then there is not much that I can do about it but I don't want this war in my back garden when it's not us that has started the fight this time.

I've visited the USA several times over the years and it has gone from an OK type of place to a place of fear that begins as soon as a visitor approches customs control to be interigrated by some under paid dick who hates anyone earning more than $5 an hour ! its so sad to see what the place has become and I myself would prefure some russian democracy to whats on offer from across the pond.

Even Ron Paul went public and told the world that the USA had spent $4bn in the Ukraine so as an american tax payer I would like to know if anyone asked you to vote on how your collective hard earned cash was spent abroad.

I've been to Russia in the last year (ancestral homeland). Security is just as bad and you meet dicks in uniforms all of the time--at least they still take bribes though. You don't seriously believe that Russia is a real democracy and is not ruled by oligarchs who want to turn a profit or control the country?

reply to post by NavyDoc

Yes, our President does not have a penis.

Who needs a penis, when you've got a stiff Boehner?

In all seriousness, military provocation/response falls far short of the reach of available economic options. As long as the US dollar remains the world's reserve currency ... no problemo.

Doc & Zaphod You made this thread worth the read!!

reply to post by NavyDoc


I reckon we probably rule out the reptiles.

I can't disagree with your position.....But then you aren't trying to ram it down my throat. I find that always helps in relations.....Maybe if we were to apply principles like that more widely we wouldn't be in this bloody mess?

I mean really.....What did the west think was going to happen when they started meddling in the Ukraine. How do you reckon the US would react if Russia started supplying sophisticated weapon systems to the Mexican drug gangs operating on the border?

The days of the US dictating to the whole world are over....Putin's made that very clear. Give it up, go home.

reply to post by SLAYER69


"I dunno, Saddam is fertilizing desert daisies and his worlds 4th largest army was turned to Russian made scrap metal. "

Saddam made the mistake of not building nukes but Libya once had free hospitals, free education, a paradise in that part of the world untill the USA put it's nose in and today 99% of the population in Libya would like to turn the clock back.

Don't confuse a barking dog with a bear, not the same leage.

Yes I hear what you are saying about gas running out but a war will consume a lot of gas and without a war then industry will just soak it up faster so yes we are screwed anyway.

Now I have to take isue with you about "Russian made scrap meta"

Are you talking about tanks Russia sold off "ON THE CHEAP" and needed replacing because during WWII the USA sold us lots of tanks that were anything but cheap along with a load of "Liberty" ships that was junk and on it's way to the scrap yard because I would have to remind you that it was Russian tanks that stopped Germany and not the ronson lighters send over from the USA to it's freinds in need.

Best you stick with jet fighters and avoid helecopters if you want to make russian hardware look like a pile of scrap metal

dam00
Im missing something here !
If I stood in my neighbours garden and started shaking a big stick at him, and then he let his dog out in the garden,that would be him being aggressive and provocative would it ? lol

but in this case you would be standing infront of his house, in the street on public property not in his yard. The Black Sea is not Russian Federation property, its international waters. So your analogy is a bit off.

reply to post by NavyDoc


All you are really saying there is that their gangsters aren't quite as sophisticated as our gangsters.....Give 'em time.

Fact is, it would be a better thing if the world were not run by gangsters.....Period.

Danbones
i made it to page four
no pictures?

prolly never even happened
like the incubator babies or the wmds or the bin ladens or healthcare
probably never will

Good morning Danbones! Your post was on topic. Amazing, that. I got a picture for you. Its not of a Russian "Fencer" but a Ukrainian one. They have over a hundred of these in their inventory. Note the vertical tail fin insignia.

Pic

Russian Fencer

My question to all the "it was russian fighter" crowd is how do you know? My other question is why was it allowed to get within a thousand yards of an American destroyer, "multiple" passes?

Maybe this event was staged to generate hostile feelings toward Russia? Nah, couldn't be. Theres no need to have anything like this staged…

I love how some ppl love to hate the US, and say "you do more harm than good". Some of these ppl are probably from countries where the US gives financial and other aid but they don't complain about that do they?!..... Also some of these ppl are from countries that if Russia decided to go on the war path and march towards western Europe, these same ppl would be running and crying for the US to come save their butts. You like to bite the hand that feeds you, but when that plate runs out of food don't come crying for more!

reply to post by NavyDoc


"I've been to Russia in the last year (ancestral homeland). Security is just as bad and you meet dicks in uniforms all of the time--at least they still take bribes though. "

Well you beat me on that one, been very close but no I've never been.

"You don't seriously believe that Russia is a real democracy and is not ruled by oligarchs who want to turn a profit or control the country?"

Well lets me answer by saying that Russia seems to be moving in the right direction whilst the USA is moving in the other direction so looking forwards I would edge my bets on Russia.

Met Russian military personal and they scared the $hit out of us and also american personal who had this habbit of stopping what they were doing twice a day to salute a flag and they looked scared to death incase they past wind whilst a tune was played out over the speaker system.

ten on ten ! Again I would edge my bets on Russia

Cydonia2012

This free money you talk about comes with far to many strings attached and I would think that the USA could do with all that money itself to cut the worlds bigest prison rate down to size where old people comit crime to do time just so they can get some medical treatment.

Our puppets are the only ones that get to see this free money that you have to stump up from your taxes and maybe you can tell me how $4bn spent in the Ukraine has helped any of the working class people and then I might be able to say why people bite the hand that feeds it

VirusGuard

Saddam made the mistake of not building nukes but Libya once had free hospitals, free education, a paradise in that part of the world untill the USA put it's nose in and today 99% of the population in Libya would like to turn the clock back.

Don't confuse a barking dog with a bear, not the same leage.

Personally I think the West should have stayed out of both, but since you brought Libya up. Good ole Muammar wasn't any saint either. Having said that. Libya's future hasn't already been written in stone.

reply to post by intrptr


Interesting idea.....Given the current situation (& precedents like the Tonkin Gulf Incident and the USS Liberty) it's certainly worthy of consideration.

Still wouldn't be surprised if it actually was a Russian probe, using the aircraft to test the capabilities of the upgraded Aegis ship.

EDIT - PS:

Snarl
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Yes, our President does not have a penis.

Who needs a penis, when you've got a stiff Boehner?

ROFL!

squarehead666

NavyDoc
The point is that no country is blemish less if you look at it's past and it's rather stupid to point out hundred(s) year old atrocities and try to extrapolate them to people living in the here and now.

edit on 15-4-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

Very well said sir.....If we can avoid adding to the overall 'blemish' total in the next few years it would be a very good thing.

The way I see it is simple.....The West has made it's attempt at bringing the whole globe under its dominion and singularly failed.

The cost of this attempt has been so enormous that our own economies are in imminent danger of imploding. This problem has been exacerbated by the actions of the financial elite, quietly defrauding us while we were distracted by 'terrorists' or now just plain old Russians (again).

IMHO our collective efforts would be much better spent rebuilding our economies on a more equitable and sustainable model.....Without financial elites. (Didn't Jesus have something to say about those BTW?)

WWIII will profit no one.

I agree that WW 3 should be avoided at all costs, and I do not think that this incident, nor like ones, will either lead to, nor trigger a limited much less an all out nuclear exchange. However, the suggestion that the "West has made it's attempt at bringing the whole globe under its dominion and singularly failed" is something that is offensive, and very inaccurate. Let's face it, the 'West" is code for The United States, who has been a beacon of hope and freedom across the globe for the past Century.

Countless millions and millions of people, and nations, have been set on the path of economic and political freedom as a direct result of the support and assistance of the United States of America.

All peoples, regardless of nationality, race or religion, long to be free and independent. The U.S. and its policies in general, albeit imperfect, has brought the freedoms that other nations and peoples have directly benefited from. The reality is that the U.S. has made tremendous sacrifices over 100+ years and across this globe so that other peoples can also be set free from tyrannical, controlling and pathological governments and individuals that seek only to obtain power, and retain said power for themselves, at the direct cost of the people for which they govern. For example, if you are a Russian citizen, what do you think would happen if you attempted to start a Television program that was opinion based, and was critical of Russian President Putin ? I think we all know the answer to that. In the U.S., we have the freedom to be as critical as desired of any and all of our political leaders, and trust me, we exercise this freedom on a daily basis.

It is truly scary to imagine our world without the influence of the U.S. What if Nazi Germany had defeated the Allies in WW 2 ? Do you have any idea as to what our world would look like today under Nazi global domination ? How about China ? Does anybody want China to replace the U.S. as the beacon of hope and freedom for all peoples of the world ?

Believe me, there are factions right here in the U.S. that have long preferred our nation to withdraw its influence in the world, and there are also many who support the U.S.'s role in the world as well. The U.S. is all too often "damned if we do, and damned if we don't". The point is that whether willingly or reluctantly, the U.S. must continue to offer the oppressed people of the world a better way, a new way and the life of freedom. Freedom is never, ever "free", as history has proven. Freedom itself is indeed quite costly, but it is worth the price. Freedom is not something a government "gives" or grants to people. Freedom is something that The Almighty God gives to each and every human being. It is governments, run by men, that attempt and all too often succeed in restricting or eliminating human freedoms. The U.S. is not the world's "bad guy", yet I am often perplexed and frankly disappointed and disgusted by the ungracious ingratitude often directed at the U.S. by some of the very nations and peoples that we have helped to support and set free. How quickly some (not all) people are willing to either discount the sacrifices the U.S. has made on their behalf, or how quickly they forget the history that the U.S. has helped shape and set on a good path in this chaotic world of ours.

Does America protect its interests ? Yes, of course. But the U.S. has, and continues to protect the interests of other nations, and our allies and friends, which include billions of other people seeking a better life...which starts with freedom, and which only can be obtained by freedom. The U.S. helps to make this world a better place, and some places are indeed much better than others.
The nations and peoples of the world who understand this have benefited greatly by aligning themselves with the U.S.

The enemies of the U.S. in WW 2, specifically Japan and Germany, are now 2 of the U.S.A's best friends and allies, and these nations, among many others who having directly experienced both tyranny and freedom, can best describe which way of life that they prefer.

The U.S.A. cannot solve the problems of the world alone, but at least the U.S.A does what it can to bring the hopes and dreams of billions of people living in this world a chance to determine their own individual and national destiny. It is for these and many other reasons, that I am very proud of my country, imperfections and all, and so I say... - May God continue to Bless the United States of America, the home of the Free, and the Brave.

When I say the west I mean the west.

When I say the US I mean the US.

I am fully aware of the complicity of my own and many other western governments complicity in much of this.

And it doesn't make any of it right, or even sensible.

Confrontation with Russia/China is not the solution to the problems of the western world.

I can't really be bothered to address the remainder of your post.....At least until you demonstrate some understanding of what 'American Interests' actually are, or can explain to me how the US actions are "making the world a better place".

The US government is rapidly turning into an Orwellian nightmare and you want the rest of the world to embrace it?

Hmmm.....

squarehead666
Confrontation with Russia/China is not the solution to the problems of the western world.

Agreed

Slightly off present topic

squarehead666
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

All you are really saying there is that their gangsters aren't quite as sophisticated as our gangsters.....Give 'em time.

Fact is, it would be a better thing if the world were not run by gangsters.....Period.

I don't disagree with that. I'm for smaller government, less regulation, less control, less taxes, and decisions made at the lowest level. One reason why government has such control and thus lobbyists and influential people try to manipulate it, is that we ask for it to be the solution to all of our problems. There will always be people who can influence government and politicians. The way to minimize the effect that it has on us, is to limit the power of the government.

reply to post by NavyDoc

Personally I find the solution to most of my problems is a phone call to a friend or a dip in the old wallet.....The government tends to be a source of problems for me!

If I'm skint, I don't kick the neighbours (or anyone else's) doors in and take their s**t.....That would be unspeakably rude! People wouldn't want to talk to me or invite me round if I did stuff like that.

reply to post by squarehead666

Still wouldn't be surprised if it actually was a Russian probe, using the aircraft to test the capabilities of the upgraded Aegis ship.

Why use an outdated Fencer for that, though? If I were the Russians I would have stealth-ed right up on them with my best and scared crap out of the radar sentries…

Then theres the "it happened in International waters" thing. Russians felt a need for provocation out there with multiple passes?

Still wondering what the insignia on the tail fin of the infiltrator was…

Oh well. I am sure as time goes on there will be more "Russians are the bad guys" without any but main stream "evidence".

VirusGuard
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

"I've been to Russia in the last year (ancestral homeland). Security is just as bad and you meet dicks in uniforms all of the time--at least they still take bribes though. "

Well you beat me on that one, been very close but no I've never been.

"You don't seriously believe that Russia is a real democracy and is not ruled by oligarchs who want to turn a profit or control the country?"

Well lets me answer by saying that Russia seems to be moving in the right direction whilst the USA is moving in the other direction so looking forwards I would edge my bets on Russia.

Met Russian military personal and they scared the $hit out of us and also american personal who had this habbit of stopping what they were doing twice a day to salute a flag and they looked scared to death incase they past wind whilst a tune was played out over the speaker system.

ten on ten ! Again I would edge my bets on Russia

Cydonia2012

This free money you talk about comes with far to many strings attached and I would think that the USA could do with all that money itself to cut the worlds bigest prison rate down to size where old people comit crime to do time just so they can get some medical treatment.

Our puppets are the only ones that get to see this free money that you have to stump up from your taxes and maybe you can tell me how $4bn spent in the Ukraine has helped any of the working class people and then I might be able to say why people bite the hand that feeds it

edit on 15-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: Just took my sock off

If you are talking about saluting the colors, it is done out of respect and not fear. Most nations do that too. If you want to see a fascinating color ceremony, Google video of the color ceremony at the India/Pakistan border. It is an old tradition done by many countries in various forms. The Brits do this well.

Since it is so interested, I googled it for you: I like this version as it is narrated by Michael Palin.


As for Russia heading "the right direction," Meh, yes and no. Obviously heading away from Communism is a good thing, however, recently the same players seem to be back in charge. Putin is from the KGB and he is using KGB style tricks to maintain power. He'll be president for life essentially. Business, initially free and easy, is now being subordinated by the Mafia and the mafia leaders of yesteryear are now the oil and tech magnates of today. It almost seems like they were not ready for freedom just yet. One problem is that the same guys who were calling the shots then, are calling the shots now, just with different hats. One good thing we did for Germany in the post war period was to forbid former Nazis from having positions of power. Due to this, the old guard did not gain back some of their control. Not as well in Russia. Hopefully, they society will survive their growing pains and will continue on the path to a free, capitalistic society.

I agree, being in the debt we are, we have no business giving out money by the billions.

Yeah, we are headed the wrong way. Take the latest atrocity in the White House. I cannot figure out what is worse, that he is in there, or that a people elected him twice. More government, more government intrusion, and most people want it as long as they get their welfare check and American Idol is on.

rickynews
However, the suggestion that the "West has made it's attempt at bringing the whole globe under its dominion and singularly failed" is something that is offensive, and very inaccurate.

it is very accurate and sorry if the truth hurts.

rickynews
Let's face it, the 'West" is code for The United States, who has been a beacon of hope and freedom across the globe for the past Century.

Are you joking or can I have some of that stuff you are smoking.

As big as you are the west does not just mean the USA it's Europe too and "freedom" is not something you get from the USA.

I even read that in some states you are not even free to collect the rain water that falls from the sky and in other places you cannot smoke in your own home whilst giving home grown vegitables to someone will get the police kicking in your door and selling none steralized milk to people that want to buy it becomes a terrorist act of war.

So free that you cannot even deal with the crimals that pull off 9/11 because they are not only above the law but are the law.

Can you not see why Russians are not rioting to join you and the people in the Crimea all ran the other way at the thought of this "freedom" because I can

reply to post by NavyDoc


And at least, you and I and all Americans are Free to voice our views, for or against, across an array of subjects or policies, without living in fear of government retribution. Russia is Not Free.