The Best Flight 370 Scenario So Far - Theory of an actual pilot

reply to post by Vasa Croe


That's for pilots and they are regulations. You won't be in a fit state to fly but you will stay alive. The passenger system is an emergency system designed to keep you alive until the plane descends to a lower altitude. It can keep you alive but not for very long.

JimTSpock
reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

That's for pilots and they are regulations. You won't be in a fit state to fly but you will stay alive. The passenger system is an emergency system designed to keep you alive until the plane descends to a lower altitude. It can keep you alive but not for very long.

If the plane is depressurized at that altitude, even if you were able to get one of these masks on your face, it would do absolutely nothing for you. It has no forced oxygen coming out, it is a continuous slow flow and not enough to keep you from hypoxia. The mask itself is not rigid nor tightly fitted enough to allow you to get oxygen at that level. I am not a pilot, but I know there are plenty on here....maybe one can explain this better than I can.

You have to have pressurized oxygen at this level.

"In fact, the distance between the point of last radio contact and Kuda Huvadhoo is 2,000 miles, which a 777 at cruise speed would cover in far less time. Flying in a straight line from the Gulf of Thailand, MH370 would have appeared over the island no later than 3 a.m. local time, well before sunrise." Link

"It may also have been flying at reduced speed to conserve fuel, either because whoever controlled the plane wanted to maximize its range, or because jet engines are less efficient at low altitude."

If it was MH370 flying over the Maldives, it could have only had enough fuel to continue flying for another 30 or 45 minutes. The 777 has a top speed of 590MPH and a cruise speed of 562MPH so once flying over the Maldives it could have continued for approximately 280-420 miles. (Maybe I'm over simplifying this, it has been a long day.)



What I don't understand though is what are the odds of MH370 flying low enough to be masked by terrain with the crew members incapacitated?

If they were not incapacitated and someone was intentionally piloting the plane at this altitude, why would they just crash the airliner into the sea instead of something more noticeable?

TheTalentedMrBryant
"In fact, the distance between the point of last radio contact and Kuda Huvadhoo is 2,000 miles, which a 777 at cruise speed would cover in far less time. Flying in a straight line from the Gulf of Thailand, MH370 would have appeared over the island no later than 3 a.m. local time, well before sunrise." Link

"It may also have been flying at reduced speed to conserve fuel, either because whoever controlled the plane wanted to maximize its range, or because jet engines are less efficient at low altitude."

If it was MH370 flying over the Maldives, it could have only had enough fuel to continue flying for another 30 or 45 minutes. The 777 has a top speed of 590MPH and a cruise speed of 562MPH so once flying over the Maldives it could have continued for approximately 280-420 miles. (Maybe I'm over simplifying this, it has been a long day.)

What I don't understand though is what are the odds of MH370 flying low enough to be masked by terrain with the crew members incapacitated?

If they were not incapacitated and someone was intentionally piloting the plane at this altitude, why would they just crash the airliner into the sea instead of something more noticeable?

They were just coming in for a landing at GAN International.....

Some expert talked about this guy on CNN this morning and said the turn being programmed into the flight data a full twelve minutes before the turn made the theory unlikely.
I guess once we find the plane well know for sure.
I think they will find it by the weekend.

reply to post by Vasa Croe

As you climb above sea level the total pressure, and hence the partial pressures reduce until at 10,000 ft the partial pressure of the oxygen in the lung reaches 80 mbs. This is the minimum that a healthy person can tolerate and accordingly, if the climb is continued above this height, the first symptoms of lack of oxygen, or hypoxia, appear. Between 10,000 and 15,000 ft the ability to perform skilled tasks such as aircraft control and navigation are impaired while between 15,000 and 20,000 ft there is a marked deterioration of performance, even of simple tasks, together with a loss of critical judgment and willpower. Thinking is slowed while muscular incoordination and clumsiness result. Above 20,000 ft the symptoms become severe, rapidly leading to unconsciousness.

The onset of hypoxia can be delayed by increasing the proportion of oxygen in the inspired air with the result that the partial pressure of oxygen in the lung is increased. Assuming that the pilot is breathing 100% oxygen when the climb is commenced, then the partial pressure of oxygen in his lungs will not fall below 130 mbs until 34,000 ft is reached. Climbing above this altitude, even when breathing 100% oxygen, will result in a reducing partial pressure of oxygen in the lung and breathing 100% oxygen at a height of 40,000 ft is equivalent to breathing air at 10,000 ft. Above 40,000 ft, hypoxia can only be prevented by employing pressure breathing. In practice, oxygen systems are never 100% efficient and 35,000 ft is a sensible limit.

You need to breathe oxygen to stay alive, you might get hypoxia but you might be able to stay alive. You don't just get minor hypoxia and instantly die, you need enough oxygen starvation to kill you. And if you are breathing oxygen from the oxygen mask it can keep you alive.

So if you breathe 100% oxygen at 40,000ft that is equivalent to 10,000ft of altitude.

AutumnWitch657
Some expert talked about this guy on CNN this morning and said the turn being programmed into the flight data a full twelve minutes before the turn made the theory unlikely.
I guess once we find the plane well know for sure.
I think they will find it by the weekend.

I agree - I think some major news tomorrow or Friday on this story

JimTSpock
reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

As you climb above sea level the total pressure, and hence the partial pressures reduce until at 10,000 ft the partial pressure of the oxygen in the lung reaches 80 mbs. This is the minimum that a healthy person can tolerate and accordingly, if the climb is continued above this height, the first symptoms of lack of oxygen, or hypoxia, appear. Between 10,000 and 15,000 ft the ability to perform skilled tasks such as aircraft control and navigation are impaired while between 15,000 and 20,000 ft there is a marked deterioration of performance, even of simple tasks, together with a loss of critical judgment and willpower. Thinking is slowed while muscular incoordination and clumsiness result. Above 20,000 ft the symptoms become severe, rapidly leading to unconsciousness.

The onset of hypoxia can be delayed by increasing the proportion of oxygen in the inspired air with the result that the partial pressure of oxygen in the lung is increased. Assuming that the pilot is breathing 100% oxygen when the climb is commenced, then the partial pressure of oxygen in his lungs will not fall below 130 mbs until 34,000 ft is reached. Climbing above this altitude, even when breathing 100% oxygen, will result in a reducing partial pressure of oxygen in the lung and breathing 100% oxygen at a height of 40,000 ft is equivalent to breathing air at 10,000 ft. Above 40,000 ft, hypoxia can only be prevented by employing pressure breathing. In practice, oxygen systems are never 100% efficient and 35,000 ft is a sensible limit.

You need to breathe oxygen to stay alive, you might get hypoxia but you might be able to stay alive. You don't just get minor hypoxia and instantly die, you need enough oxygen starvation to kill you. And if you are breathing oxygen from the oxygen mask it can keep you alive.

I agree but even the example you just put up is talking about the pilot and pressurized oxygen. Passengers do not have pressurized oxygen. In a rapid depressurization at 45k feet the would be out before they could even reach for the mask, let alone pull it taught so the oxygen flows and have the dexterity to strap it over their heads. Even if they tried to hold it to their face tgere isnt enough oxygen supplied by the system to keep them from losing consciousness at that level.

reply to post by Vasa Croe


You don't need pressurized oxygen to stay alive that is saying the pilots need pressurized oxygen to have no oxygen starvation and no hypoxia at all and not be impared to fly the aircraft.

As it says you can breathe 100% oxygen not pressurized at 40,000ft and that is like 10,000ft of altitude which won't kill you.

In a rapid decompression getting the mask on and getting enough oxygen to stay alive might be difficult but it would certainly help and would be better than having no mask at all.

The system is designed by the aircraft manufacturers and must pass certain regulations, it is not there just for show. It can supply enough oxygen for a limited time at the aircraft's service ceiling or it would not be certified to fly at that altitude.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in any other Flight 370 thread, but here it goes...

The final bit of information that was floating around was the attempt of an "electronic handshake" between the Rolls Royce engine and a satellite, right?

Let us just say that the pilot flew the plane to it's destination and landed to begin preparations for the next phase of whatever may happen next.

Once the engines are restarted wouldn't Rolls Royce be able to find that out immediately because of an "electronic handshake" attempt?

Maybe I should ask this question as well....

How quickly can a planes engines be removed and replaced? In my view that is the ONLY way they can get that plane off the ground again without being noticed.

Unless Rolls Royce and Boeing are in on it as well.

reply to post by olliemc84


If such an elaborate plan did take place it would not be difficult to remove or disable the engine monitors once on the ground.

reply to post by JimTSpock


Yeah that answer is what I was afraid of.

So somewhere on this earth is an off-the-grid 777.

Terrifying.

Now I have another question: If the plane crashed why did the emergency beacons not go off?
I've now heard at least a dozen pilots/engineers, people who are qualified to know such things, say that when a plane crashes one of two emergency transmitters will activate, one is for land crashes and the other is for water. Yet we've heard nothing of an emergency beacon being activated.
I've purposefully avoided watching or listening to msm on this incident (to keep my head from exploding over so many opposing reports) so maybe the question has been answered and I've just missed it.

stargatetravels

AutumnWitch657
Some expert talked about this guy on CNN this morning and said the turn being programmed into the flight data a full twelve minutes before the turn made the theory unlikely.
I guess once we find the plane well know for sure.
I think they will find it by the weekend.

I agree - I think some major news tomorrow or Friday on this story

edit on 19-3-2014 by stargatetravels because: (no reason given)

Can someone help me get the time line right? Was the turn programmed before the last contact with ATC?

reply to post by xmaddness


S&F for you. Interesting find.

Simple, concise and to the point. It is probably the best theory I have heard so far....at least the most probable.

Thanks for posting this...great read.

diggindirt
Now I have another question: If the plane crashed why did the emergency beacons not go off?
I've now heard at least a dozen pilots/engineers, people who are qualified to know such things, say that when a plane crashes one of two emergency transmitters will activate, one is for land crashes and the other is for water. Yet we've heard nothing of an emergency beacon being activated.
I've purposefully avoided watching or listening to msm on this incident (to keep my head from exploding over so many opposing reports) so maybe the question has been answered and I've just missed it.

Firstly they are searching 2 million nautical miles
Secondly you have to get within 5 miles of the 'transmitter' to be able to detect it.

JimTSpock
The oxygen mask system onboard aircraft is designed to work at high altitude that's what it is for. It works at 40,000ft+. But only for about 15 minutes.

The passenger oxygen system is meant to function at crushing altitudes for a brief period of time. The theory is that the Captain will return the aircraft to an altitude that has breathable air. At high altitude only a forced pure oxygen system will keep you alive. Another thing to consider is that it is also around -60* at 40,000'+.

I tell you what, its insane its like a movie script but not in a good way,

i hope it has a happy ending though

AugustusMasonicus

JimTSpock
The oxygen mask system onboard aircraft is designed to work at high altitude that's what it is for. It works at 40,000ft+. But only for about 15 minutes.

The passenger oxygen system is meant to function at crushing altitudes for a brief period of time. The theory is that the Captain will return the aircraft to an altitude that has breathable air. At high altitude only a forced pure oxygen system will keep you alive. Another thing to consider is that it is also around -60* at 40,000'+.

You hit the nail right on the head there

well spotted

olliemc84
Once the engines are restarted wouldn't Rolls Royce be able to find that out immediately because of an "electronic handshake" attempt?

The Rolls data was being sent through ACARS which was not functioning after 1:37 or before.