50,000 Russians protest in Moscow opposes Ukraine invasion

benrl
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

BECAUSE LEGALLY WE HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO.

They are not attacking Nato, it is a dispute between two sovereign nations that we have no part in.

Let the people of those countries deal with it.

I am so sick of these warmongers dressed as patriots clambering to send the Best and Brightest Americans to die on Foreign soil, Yes I am "anti american" for wanting America, to Focus on America.

By minding its business where it should, and not sticking its nose where no legal obligation exist.

edit on 16-3-2014 by benrl because: (no reason given)

They do have a legal obligation when Ukraine's people and government ask for support and help... or are you now claiming that it's illegal for Ukraine to do so? That's kinda "UNFAIR" wouldn't you say?... not sure if you have realised but the Ukraine is located between the EU/NATO and Russia.... would you like a moment to go rethink what your saying and come back with something that doest stink of I hate the US a while ignoring what's really right & wrong?

We get it you hate the US, jeez

reply to post by TritonTaranis


THAN they would have to take a resolution through the UN,

and Congress would have to step in.

TO make it legal.

Has that happened?

No.

ETA:

I love the hate US angle, thats a good dig, shows maturity and depth of thought on issues.

Nothing will change Putin's policy over Ukraine and the seeming intent to annex Crimea and the east.

This will be the outcome...

1. Putin will take no notice.
2. The ring-leaders will find their lives uncomfortable. People don't protest against Putin and get away with it.
3. RT.com, the mouthpiece of the Russian autocracy, will pretend it has not happened.
4. The Russian media, much downtrodden by intimidation and murders of journalists, will be cowed.

Regards

reply to post by benrl


you are right, so never mind.

Please continue on with your previously-scheduled bashing.

lakesidepark
reply to post by benrl

 

NATO and the U.S. signed an agreement (belarus accord) that the U.S. and NATO would defend Ukraine sovereignity for Ukraine's agreement to dismantle their nuclear missles and warheads.

They did their part and are now defenseless against Russia's trump card. And the west still has an agreement, without action needed from the UN.

You suggest that after stripping them of their defense, the west should ignore that agreement at the time they need that agreement the most?

Good one. You should add that to your west-hating list - that the U.S. will ignore and refuse to help the countries that the U.S has already disarmed and agreed to help. That will be real comforting to all the allies.

SO we just making up any facts now or what?

THE US AND NATO DID NOT SIGN, the signers where

RUSSIA, Ukraine And Belarus, so close but no.

en.wikipedia.org...

the2ofusr1
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

Once again ...Russia has not invaded Ukraine and have a agreement with Ukraine to have up to 25000 troops there . They have a base there . And like the above poster said , look at the protesters allowed to protest in Russia .Are they being beaten,pepper sprayed ? your headline is both false and misleading ...

I agree with you on this. It's all a murky swamp of maybes and legal questions. I think Russia is dancing on a very fine honed knife edge for that line of crossing into calling it an outright invasion...but so far? Yup.. Rumors of war or more, with everything still being in the Crimea, which is largely Russian by past demographics. The stuff put together well before anyone would have seen the need to spin for today.

reply to post by lakesidepark


So correcting your false propaganda,

Saying Americans shouldn't be dying over foreign interest,

That the US should focus on the NUMEROUS problems at home,

Means I am bashing the US.

I am saying let Ukraine and Russia, and the citizens their of, decide their fate.

IF its going to the UN, getting a LEGAL action taken, so be it.

We don't need super patriot cheerleaders crying to send OUR young to die for what the Ukraine citizens should be doing.

that is all bashing? got it.

benrl
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

THAN they would have to take a resolution through the UN,

and Congress would have to step in.

TO make it legal.

Has that happened?

No.

Really?

The United States and Britain signed a commitment with Boris Yeltsin to protect Ukraine’s borders in exchange for the nation giving up its nuclear weapons, a little-known agreement known as the “Budapest Memorandum" signed by former President Bill Clinton and former prime minister John Major in 1994

Also I believe it is well documented with the West taking there concerns to the UN which you claim hasn't happened lol

reply to post by TritonTaranis


Yes, but the problem being in that agreement the penality for violation of the statement of "assurances" where vague with no force beyond "okay we won't".

Which is why we see no direct unilateral action against Russia by the US, as they didn't violate an enforceable part of it, SO again what do you have?

A treaty with no teeth when it comes to the Assurances, and still needs UN or Congressional approval.

ETA:

Turn off Fox news and take a step back, we have to at least pretend to be a nation that follows laws, and their are legal steps needed to take action, NONE of which have happened.

reply to post by benrl


Noted the first count, but my 'false propaganda' has been edited and deleted, and acknowledged to be false by me. So that agrees with me on the first part.

The rest of your postings in this thread, especially the noted 'super patriots' and 'FOX news watchers', agrees with me on the SECOND part.

Now leave me out as I have already acknowledged I have no part in this thread and should have refrained from comment. As my comments, much like yours, have nothing to do with the Russian people protesting a Russian action, which is what this thread was ORIGINALLY about.

Continue on , with what you do. Whatever that is. But make it topical. Thats what I should have done.

peace, I'm out.

50,000 people protesting....must be costing the American and German governments a fortune....

benrl
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

Yes, but the problem being in that agreement the penality for violation of the statement of "assurances" where vague with no force beyond "okay we won't".

Which is why we see no direct unilateral action against Russia by the US, as they didn't violate an enforceable part of it, SO again what do you have?

A treaty with no teeth when it comes to the Assurances, and still needs UN or Congressional approval.

ETA:

Turn off Fox news and take a step back, we have to at least pretend to be a nation that follows laws, and their are legal steps needed to take action, NONE of which have happened.

I'm not American and neither are you

Sorry but I'm not sure where you got confused but nobody is saying the treaty is in effect right now, or acceptable to go through with, just yet.... but when Russia roll into Eastern Ukraine it will be... And then it's game on

NATO has warned go no further than Crimea

All you're doing is just going on and on and on about the US's wrong doings which have nothing to do with Ukraine, but for you it justifies ignoring Ukraine claiming that there voice doesn't matter because the US is speaking up for them and the rest of the world in agreement? What about the rest of the world and the Ukrainian they don't matter to you, right and wrong doesn't matter because the US is speaking up OK

You really couldn't be anymore ignorant

Can you explain what action the "West" not the US as you keep mislabeling... should take other than the diplomatic peaceful approach it has been taking for the past two weeks ?

To say that the west shouldn't get involved while being asked for help by the Ukrainian people and government and the fact it being direct threat to peace on Europe boarders is nothing short of pathetic

All While Russian invade on the call of an illegitimate leader kick out of office by his own government and an ethnic minority thinking they have the right to break away is outstandingly biased

Christ your DELUDED to the core

andy1972
50,000 people protesting....must be costing the American and German governments a fortune....

Lol

Brilliant

Impossible!

The CIA doesn't have 50,000 operatives in Russia.

Western Propaganda

SLAYER69
Impossible!

The CIA doesn't have 50,000 operatives in Russia.

Western Propaganda

Yaaawwnnn....they paid protesters, students etc, to protest in Ukraine....im not saying they actually used cia operatives...jesus...or please tell me you were being ironic or sarcastic..

reply to post by TritonTaranis


Mentality like yours got us into Iraq and Afghanistan. No more. People love this country in different ways, why can't you argue why you think it's right for the US to get involved as opposed to trying to paint every American that doesn't support getting into yet another conflict with yet another Nation as un-American. It's disgusting to do that. "They've asked for our help" who is they? The neo-nazi's or the pro-EU or the pro-Independent Ukrainians?

And let's not forget that it was proxy wars with Russia that led to the Taliban taking control of Afghanistan. Then the fight against the Taliban that gave birth to Al-Qaeda. Just a few months ago we were on the verge of supporting Jihadists in Syria and did infact supply them weapons, yeah Assad is a monster... are Jihadists any less so?

It sucks when Nations splinter into different factions, innocent people... children suffer, starve and are blown to pieces. But when there is no right move to make it doesn't mean you draw from a hat which faction to defend. The better option is to stay out of it or offer support and protection for refugees.

There is nothing we can or should do with Ukraine, our involvement will only lead to worse suffering later and our men and women don't deserve to die in the name of vagueness or worse intentional undermining of a people. I love my fellow Americans too much to let them die for that without my voice saying NO!

Now, if you're so pumped for war with Russia, go encourage Putin to invade Poland. Poland, by treaty we are legally bound to defend.

Benrl in the mean time... I am proud to call you my countryman. Thank-you for your rational Patriotism.

the2ofusr1
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

Once again ...Russia has not invaded Ukraine and have a agreement with Ukraine to have up to 25000 troops there . They have a base there . And like the above poster said , look at the protesters allowed to protest in Russia .Are they being beaten,pepper sprayed ? your headline is both false and misleading ...

Yeah you're right

They're not invading and occupying they're holding the Ukrainian military in there bases because the they like to be surrounded


Based there does not permit then to do that and your ignorance and stupidity is of the charts

the2ofusr1
reply to post by benrl

 

You might have a argument from the Iraqis and the Afghanistan people .The Us is good at usurping the law .The war on Iraq is the one that stands out the most .

this situation could compare to afghanistan if one were to parallel crimea with the northern alliance and said it was to help them because their opposition to their government, or if one said the iraq war was to help kurdistan for the same reason.

this behavior in ukraine by russia is just as questionable as either of those previous wars of ours were if you want to be objective here, what russia is doing is securing resources and trade influence through passive aggression and intimidation.

aggression is still aggression even non-violent acts like what russia is doing in ukraine, i mean intervening in a sovereign states domestic affairs and annexing part of their territory as a result is an act of war regardless if that territory wants it or not.

This is a fantastic development in Russia.

People are making their views open, to be heard by the Government.

This is a pro active, seemingly peaceful protest...as it should be.

Lets hope the days of Stalin murdering 10 million + Cossacks and other Russians are over.

In this day and age, we need less "Waring Tribes" and more cooperation.

While the US Govt/Military machine are responsible for recent stupid aggression towards smaller countries,
It is important to remember that Millions of ordinary Real Americans protested in cities, nation wide, against war being
proposed by the "Bush-ranger" Govt of the early 2000s.
Unfortunately, to fall on deaf government ears.
We all know what History now shows.

reply to post by namehere


What I see happening over there is 2 fold . ! Isolate Russia and Impose impossible economic conditions on the Ukraine people www.youtube.com...


Confessions of an Economic Hit Man is a book written by John Perkins and published in 2004.

According to Perkins, he began writing Confessions of an Economic Hit Man in the 1980s, but "threats or bribes always convinced [him] to stop."

According to his book, Perkins' function was to convince the political and financial leadership of underdeveloped countries to accept enormous development loans from institutions like the World Bank and USAID. Saddled with debts they could not hope to pay, those countries were forced to acquiesce to political pressure from the United States on a variety of issues. Perkins argues in his book that developing nations were effectively neutralized politically, had their wealth gaps driven wider and economies crippled in the long run en.wikipedia.org...