Russian Federation Council Agrees to Putin's Request for military intervention in Crimea

MessageforAll
reply to post by DJW001

 

Thx for the reply, though, I think these are tactics used by every nation, they all go to the same bookstore.


BREAKING NEWS At least 100 demonstrators waving Russian flags have stormed into the regional administration building in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, and occupied at least one floor of the building. Itar-Tass news agency says there are no police on the scene. The 11-storey building has been flying the Russian flag, rather than the Ukrainian flag, for three days, Reuters reports.

edit on rdAmerica/Chicago303000000k2014 by MessageforAll because: (no reason given)

So it begins... What we are seeing is Russia in a panic. Their take over of the Crimea was called out, and the justifications Russia used are being dismantled. With the reaction of the world towards Russia, noting its actions are in violation of international law, we are seeing Russia speeding up its plans to occupy large portion / all of Ukraine.

The Russians are accepting the fact they are going to be on the losing end of world reaction. In for a penny, in for a pound. Russia will accelerate its plans, take what it wants, and then settle in and reinforce.

Putin has lost all grip on reality and the Ukrainians are going to pay the price for Putins stupidity.

andy1972
I must admit, at the moment the Russian PR machine is failing BADLY in it's task.

I was not aware we should cheer propaganda...

The use of propaganda, while assuming the people who view it will just accept it without thought, is always a bad idea. The images Russia has been using to justify their own actions inside Russia have been called out by numerous countries / groups.

If Putin's actions in Crimea were based on facts, then there is no need for propaganda.

This is another example of how Putin is lying to the world in order to re-start the Soviet Union.

andy1972

DJW001

MessageforAll
reply to post by DJW001

 

Thx for the reply, though, I think these are tactics used by every nation, they all go to the same bookstore.

The United States has never used the "Protecting ethnic Americans" excuse for annexing territory. Just saying.

No, they use the excuse - "war on terror" to annex countries...just saying...

What countries have the US annexed under the war on terror?
What countries have the US annexed?

MessageforAll
14:37: UK Minister of State at the Foreign Office, Hugo Swire, tells the BBC: "We must engage with Russia. It's no good this rhetoric, we need to engage and work our way through this very, very tense situation."

Putin refuses to speak with Ukraine to resolve this issue. Why would Putin peak to the west? Putin has made his decision and will not back down from it. He can't.

The moment Putin backs off is the moment he is done in Russian politics (so long as he continues to allow elections. My guess is things will be changing there quickly as well).

Yahoo News - Ukraine in crisis | U.S. to Russia: 'It is an act of aggression; it must stop'

Poland just invoked Article IV under the NATO charter -

Update, 3:15 p.m. EST: NATO's secretary general said that the North Atlantic Council will meet Tuesday following a request by Poland under article 4 of NATO's founding Washington Treaty:

Under article 4 of the Treaty, any Ally can request consultations whenever, in the opinion of any of them, their territorial integrity, political independence or security is threatened. The developments in and around Ukraine are seen to constitute a threat to neighboring Allied countries and having direct and serious implications for the security and stability of the Euro-Atlantic area.

The Russian Ambassador to the UN apparently was taken to task by the US Ambassador over his remarks -

Update, 3:52 p.m. ET: U.S. and Russian ambassadors exchanged sharp words at the United Nations in New York on Monday. Vitaly Churkin, Russia's ambassador to the U.N., said ethnic Russians are under attack in the Ukraine from "anti-national radicals" and defended the possible use of force in Crimea.

"We're talking about defending our citizens and our compatriots, on defending the most important human right, the right to life," Churkin said.

"There is no evidence that ethnic Russians are in danger," U.S. ambassador Samantha Power responded. "Russia is trying to convince the world community that up is down, and black is white.

Xcathdra
Under article 4 of the Treaty, any Ally can request consultations whenever, in the opinion of any of them, their territorial integrity, political independence or security is threatened. The developments in and around Ukraine are seen to constitute a threat to neighboring Allied countries and having direct and serious implications for the security and stability of the Euro-Atlantic area.

Article 4 of said treaty is BS.

It gives NATO the right to pick a fight with who they want, this is as good as the "they have WMD'S" the USA used to illegaly invade Iraq.

Whats happening in the Ukraine "may have serious implications for the security and stability etc etc etc ...and it might not.

However NATO may not wait to see what happens...and using this BS as an excuse, start WW3.

I hope im wrong..

andy1972
Article 4 of said treaty is BS.

It gives NATO the right to pick a fight with who they want, this is as good as the "they have WMD'S" the USA used to illegaly invade Iraq.

Whats happening in the Ukraine "may have serious implications for the security and stability etc etc etc ...and it might not.

However NATO may not wait to see what happens...and using this BS as an excuse, start WW3.

I hope im wrong..

edit on PM1Mon20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

Invoking article IV is valid.

The BS would be the reason Russia gave for invading Ukraine.

Also - wikileaks released the information about the WMD's that were located in Iraq. For people who love Assange / Wikileaks, they sure seem to forget / intentionally ignore that information.

Vitaliy Churkin Russian envoy - "years ago Ronald Regan invaded Grenada to protect a thousand US citizens that lived there..and they wernt under threat - in the Crimea, there are millions of Russians."

BBC QUOTE -
Andy Szpuk in Nottingham, UK emails: There has been no concrete evidence that Russian civilians in Crimea were ever under threat, it's the flimsiest of excuses to invade a neighbouring country, violating not only international law but basic morals too. The West should act!

Yes, they should'nt have said there were ethnic Russians under threat..
What they should have said "We're looking for Al Qaeda" and nobody would have compained..

andy1972
BBC QUOTE -
Andy Szpuk in Nottingham, UK emails: There has been no concrete evidence that Russian civilians in Crimea were ever under threat, it's the flimsiest of excuses to invade a neighbouring country, violating not only international law but basic morals too. The West should act!

Yes, they should'nt have said there were ethnic Russians under threat..
What they should have said "We're looking for Al Qaeda" and nobody would have compained..

Wasn't that the very excuse Putin used to invade Chechnya.... twice?

reply to post by andy1972


Exactly.

The Ukraine situation is something that has been simmering since the collapse of the USSR and even before when Crimea was made part of Ukraine, many view it as illegal.

The most viable solution is allowing Crimea being again Russia and allowing the Russian identity part of Ukraine, mostly the East a say in again becoming Russian or at least Russian allied independence.

Places like the US should back off, it isn't their place for even offering an opinion. The UK's PM is correct in saying no action required from the UK and everywhere else should be saying the same.

Ukraine letter to United Nations outlines nation's situation

A draft law on annexation of the Crimea was registered today in the Russian Parliament.

Yesterday, 2 March, trying to capture the armory of Ukrainian Air Tactical brigade (near
Sevastopol) Russian Armed Forces used stun grenades against Ukrainian soldiers. As a result
Ukrainian officer sustained brain-contusion and shock and was brought to medical facility.

Tonight, Russian Air Forces aircrafts twice illegally entered Ukrainian airspace
threatening air security. These incidents received proper reaction from Ukrainian Air Forces, as
Ukrainian aircraft immediately took off towards violators and was in the alert zone ready to act
against violators of State airspace border, which allowed avoiding serious consequences.

Today Ukrainian military base in Kerch was surrounded by Russian soldiers.

Russian Military blocked Ukrainian military units in Novoozernoe, Perevalnoye and
Feodosia, demanding to surrender and seal arms and ammunition, while promising to ensure
security with submachine gunners of Russia. Ukrainian navy troops refused to comply with the
Russians orders.

Ukrainian Navy ships have been blocked in Sevastopol Bay by Russian Navy vessel KIL-158, seagoing tugs and patrol boats of the RF Navy. The representatives of the Russian Navy delieverd an ultimatum to the personnel of
corvette "Ternopil" and command ship "Slavutich" to lay down their arms until 18.00 March 3
and leave the ships otherwise they will open tile fire. Ukrainian sailors clearly stated the oath of
allegiance to Ukrainian people.

Today the first attempt has been made to capture the Ukrainian Navy Headquarters by
armed men, and the other attempt is expected.
Russian Special Forces continue to capture the military and border facilities in the
Crimea, offering Ukrainian army to voluntary surrender until 18.00 today.
In Feodosia City the Russian Kozaks groups have been capturing all administrative
buildings and started to distribute the arms to civil volunteers to form the self-protection
groups.



Ukrainian Border Service headquarters in Crimea has been captured and blocked by
Russian troops. At noon, Russian soldiers with military trucks broke down the doors, destroyed
workstations and communications equipment.

There has been drastic increase of pressure from Russian military on Ukrainian border
guard officers. During seizures of border guard units there was brutal use of physical force,
threat of weapon and menace. Professionals of Russian Special Forces try to perform
psychological pressure on border guard officers and in categorical form demand to obey to the
new authorities of the Crimea Autonomous Republic. They actively make attempts to crimp
personnel, call for information on investigation-operational divisions and information on
operating personnel.

Russian military forces continue implementing their plan of complete blockade of
communications in Crimea, in order to cut communication of Ukrainian Armed Forces in
Crimea with General Staff.

Russian military nearly every half hour commit provocations in Crimea.
A series of provocations were carried out over the past few days, which would aim to
legalize the presence of Russian military contingent in Crimea.

In contrary, Ukrainian armed forces are protecting their staffs, military units and bases,
and are not responding to any provocations that occurred over the past days.
Due to blockade of all state institutions in Crimea by the Russian Armed Forces, these
institutions are almost unable to function properly, which creates social tensions in population.

Today, the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine officially informed about the rapid
increase in number of military machines and equipment on the Russian territory along the
Eastern border of Ukraine, namely Kharkiv, Lugansk and Donetsk regions. It includes, 9 trains
of military equipment (APC) unloaded from Voronezh side, 5 armoured vehicles (APC) and 2
mechanical transport vehicles from Bochkove- Leninskoye with field kitchen.

Governor of Rostov region of Russia ordered to deploy camps in Russian districts
bordering Ukraine.

Such activities of Russian Armed Forces indicate their preparation for a possible
invasion by Russia into Ukraine not only in Crimea, but also in to Eastern regions in Ukraine.


As of today, since 24 February, approximately 16,000 Russian troops have been
deployed in Crimea by the military ships, helicopters, cargo airplanes from the
neighboring territory of the Russian Federation. The Russian troops keep taking their
attempts to seize, block and control crucial governmental and military objects of Ukraine
in Crimea: the Parliament of Crimea, all civil and military airports, means of
communications, radio stations, customs service, military and coastguard bases,
Headquarters of the Ukraine's Navy in Crimea. All main roads are blocked.

Also a large number of Russian military troops is ready for being redeployed from Novorosiysk.
Access to the Black Sea is blocked by 10 Russian Navy vessels, including vessels of Baltic Fleet.


Permanent Mission of Ukraine will continue to inform all Permanent and Observer Missions to the
United Nations on the latest developments of the situation in Ukraine. Actions by the Government of Ukraine for normalization of the situation in Crimea The leadership of Ukraine takes appropriate measures aimed at political resolution of theconflict with the participation of the UN, OSCE and other international organizations.


The Law of Ukraine "On State Language Policy", adopted in 2012 (protecting languages
of national minorities) is still in effect. Acting President used his right no to sign draft adopted
by the Parliament. As of now, Russian language is as protected as it was before on all territory
of Ukraine, particularly and especially in Crimea.

Acting President Turchynov has mandated to establish a worldng group for "immediate
elaboration of a new Law of Ukraine "On Language", to consist of all ethnic groups and
national minorities.


Yesterday, highly respected persons have been appointed as Governors of Eastern and
Southern regions of Ukraine. All of them are locals of those regions, and not members of any
political party. It was an important step to calm down situation.


Members of new Ukrainian Government come from different regions of Ukraine,
including Eastern and Southern regions. These people will duly represent interests of those
regions. 4 (four) ministers of Ukrainian Government were born in Russia.


Despite existing economic problems, Government of Ukraine has provided necessary
financing to the population of Crimea in order to avoid social tensions.


Acting President Turchynov supported the establishment of the "Council of National
Trust." He stressed that the country will always protect rights of its people "no matter what
language they speak, no matter where they live, and no matter what church they go to."

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


I know Crimea is part of Ukraine but it is AUTONOMOUS (therefore having it's own parliament) and has more than twice legally claimed independence from Ukraine only for Ukraine trashing their claim.

Many Crimean and ethnic Russians in Ukraine feel that their inclusion in Ukraine as part of Khrushchev's deal and the break up of the USSR was illegal and have disputed their being part of Ukraine in the first place.

The Crimean government ASKED Russia for help, hence troops guarding bases etc.

News agencies should be held in suspicion due to their omission of these IMPORTANT and RELEVANT facts.

news.yahoo.com...

SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (Reuters) - Crimea's parliament voted to join Russia on Thursday and its Moscow-backed government set a referendum within 10 days on the decision in a dramatic escalation of the crisis over the Ukrainian Black Sea peninsula.

The sudden acceleration of moves to formally bring the Crimea, which has an ethnic Russian majority and has effectively been seized by Russian forces, under Moscow's rule came as European Union leaders gathered for an emergency summit to seek ways to pressure Russia to back down and accept mediation.

The Crimean parliament voted unanimously "to enter into the Russian Federation with the rights of a subject of the Russian Federation", the RIA news agency reported. Its vice premier said a referendum on the status would take place on March 16.

The announcements, which diplomats said could not have been made without Russian President Vladimir Putin's approval, raised the stakes in the most serious east-west confrontation since the end of the Cold War.

en.wikipedia.org...

On 19 February 1954, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union issued a decree transferring the Crimean Oblast from the RSFSR to the Ukrainian SSR. [30] [31] The transfer of the Crimean Oblast to Ukraine has been described as a "symbolic gesture," marking the 300th anniversary of Ukraine becoming a part of the Russian Empire.[32][33] The General Secretary of the Communist Party in Soviet Union was at the time the Ukranian Nikita Khrushchev.

In post-war years, Crimea thrived as a prime tourist destination, built with new attractions and spas for tourists. Tourists came from all over the Soviet Union and neighbouring countries.[21] Crimea's infrastructure and manufacturing was also developed, particularly around the sea ports at Kerch and Sevastopol and in the oblast's landlocked capital of Simferopol.

Following a referendum on 20 January 1991, the Crimean Oblast was upgraded to that of an Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic on 12 February 1991 by the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR.[34]
In Independent Ukraine

With the collapse of the Soviet Union, Crimea became part of the newly independent Ukraine, which led to tensions between Russia and Ukraine.[nb 1] With the Black Sea Fleet based on the peninsula, worries of armed skirmishes were occasionally raised. Crimean Tatars began returning from exile and resettling in Crimea.

On 26 February 1992, the Verkhovniy Sovet (the Crimean parliament) renamed the ASSR the Republic of Crimea and proclaimed self-government on 5 May 1992[36][37] (which was yet to be approved by a referendum held 2 August 1992[38]) and passed the first Crimean constitution the same day.[38] On 6 May 1992 the same parliament inserted a new sentence into this constitution that declared that Crimea was part of Ukraine.[38]

Crimea's southernmost point is the Cape of Sarych on the northern shore of the Black Sea, currently used by the Russian Navy.

On 19 May, Crimea agreed to remain part of Ukraine and annulled its proclamation of self-government but Crimean Communists forced the Ukrainian government to expand on the already extensive autonomous status of Crimea.[22]:587 In the same period, Russian president Boris Yeltsin and Ukrainian President Leonid Kravchuk agreed to divide the former Soviet Black Sea Fleet between Russia and the newly formed Ukrainian Navy.[39]

On 14 October 1993, the Crimean parliament established the post of President of Crimea and agreed on a quota of Crimean Tatars represented in the Council of 14. However, political turmoil continued. Amendments[clarification needed] to the constitution eased the conflict,[citation needed] but on 17 March 1995, the parliament of Ukraine intervened, scrapping the Crimean Constitution and removing Yuriy Meshkov (the President of Crimea) along with his office for his actions against the state and promoting integration with Russia.[40] After an interim constitution, the current constitution was put into effect, changing the territory's name to the Autonomous Republic of Crimea.

Following the ratification of the May 1997 Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership on friendship and division of the Black Sea Fleet, international tensions slowly eased. However, in September 2008, the Ukrainian Foreign Minister Volodymyr Ohryzko accused Russia of giving out Russian passports to the population in the Crimea and described it as a "real problem" given Russia's declared policy of military intervention abroad to protect Russian citizens.[41]

On 24 August 2009, anti-Ukrainian demonstrations were held in Crimea by ethnic Russian residents. Sergei Tsekov (of the Russian Bloc[42] and then deputy speaker of the Crimean parliament[43]) said then that he hoped that Russia would treat the Crimea the same way as it had treated South Ossetia and Abkhazia.[44] Chaos in the Ukrainian parliament erupted during a debate over the extension of the lease on a Russian naval base on 27 April 2010 after Ukraine’s parliament ratified the treaty that extends Russia's lease on a military wharf and shore installations in the Crimean port Sevastopol until 2042. Along with Verkhovna Rada, the treaty was ratified by the Russian State Duma as well.[45]

reply to post by Xcathdra


Is that letter written by the neo-nazi coupists? Because if it is, well you can see the contradiction cant you?

theabsolutetruth
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

I know Crimea is part of Ukraine but it is AUTONOMOUS (therefore having it's own parliament) and has more than twice legally claimed independence from Ukraine only for Ukraine trashing their claim.

The part you are missing with regard to the "autonomous" regarding Crimea is that the autonomy is subordinate to the Ukraine government. Crimea has no authority under the Ukraine Constitution / Law to unilaterally engage in foreign policy nor is it able to request foreign intervention. Only the federal government has that authority.

Autonomous and Independent are not the same thing. Hong Kong is an autonomous zone in China, however the Chinese government in Beijing is responsible for foreign affairs and the military.

I have no issues with a vote for independence for the Crimea, so long as its done in a lawful manner and ALL Ukrainians are able to vote (and by all I mean a country wide referendum).

Secondly what about the citizens in Crimea who are not Russian and who have no desire to be a part of Russia? Would those citizens be justified in ignoring law / constitution of Crimea in an effort to become a part of Ukraine or another country? I ask this because the Crimea is not 100% Russian. They are only 54% over the 2 million who live in Crimea.

Putin is once again playing the definition of "is" is by stating they wont annex Crimea. Cheap talk when the illegal government in Crimea states they will ask to become a part of Russia. Also, to dispel another myth about a law banning Russian - it never made it and was never passed.

Also, the reference by Russia to the "unconstitutional" government in Ukraine is leaving out a very important part. The Ukrainian government followed their constitution in lawfully removing the former President. Their legislative body took a vote and the measure passed by a large margin. The Presidents own party has stopped supporting him and those who were in his cabinet started to resign when gun fire erupted.

Yusomad
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Is that letter written by the neo-nazi coupists? Because if it is, well you can see the contradiction cant you?

The "letter" was issued by the Foreign Ministry of Estonia, not the Russian foreign ministry nor the Russian coupists in Crimea.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
reply to post by MessageforAll

 

Oh great... The Bear is baring its balls.

That is JUST what this situation needed. I cannot think of anything that could make this situation any better, than the addition of a few tens of thousands of troops, wearing no national flags, and therefore unable to be linked to any one nation, except by circumstantial evidence, meaning any criminal activity they may engage in cannot be traced to source in a thorough and solid fashion... that is bloody marvelous.

A nice even handed approach of course.

*overwhelming dose of sarcasm ends*

The fact of the matter is, that whether it was going to be Russia, or the US in association with the EU member states, someone was going to go into this mess, and try and play for the power. I think it is probably worth discarding any pretense that either side would have ever considered actually doing anything useful for the people of the Ukraine, but I would like to think that if the EU and US had gone and put people on the ground, that they would have shown up wearing the flag of their respective nations, not unmarked like these goons have.

I think this is all deeply shady business, and I do not think it is Russia's place, or any other nations place, to sort out the mess that the Ukrainian parliament has made for itself. Cleaning out that craphouse, is the job of the Ukrainian people, and they should have been allowed to get on with that of their own accord.

I don't see how Ukrainians can clean up Kiev when it's being torn apart by western "sovereign" and eastern interests. If Russia doesn't step in I imagine this conflict could escalate and extend through decades, that could be a bigger disaster than if Russia simply went in and disestablished Kiev.

On the other hand as an American I really don't have much of an idea of how the conflict is but I'd like the anglo nations to play an indirect role and try to not exacerbate any escalations in any way. If Kiev can't handle Russia or their own people then why would I support assisting them so they can stay in power? I'd rather just let Russia have it. I'm not afraid of Russia, I've got a feeling that Moscow is good people and they certainly have been doing a better job handling their affairs than Kiev has theirs. Let Europe have Kiev and the west and let the east riot until the west gives it up and lets them join their mother Russia, that's a solution I would root for.

originally posted by: MysterX
reply to post by Catacomb

 

So you're claiming Russia instigated the coup in Ukraine, and not the US and EU then?

Which is completely astoundingly wrong to say of course, considering Ukraine was already siding with Russia, going against the EU, despite Ukraine having dangled a lucrative and strategic carrot towards the EU for some time!

Would the USA invade anywhere or anyone who was making overtures towards making an alliance with the USA?

Of course not...same thing applies to Russia and Ukraine.

The rest of my post still applies, the EU is encroaching on Russian borders - ex-Soviet state by ex-soviet state...this time it's strategically important Ukraine, literally bordering Russia proper.

With Romania, bulgaria and Poland under the EU umbrella, anyone can clearly see what is happening along every border with Russia...the Iron curtain that will inevitably rise along this new 'mega-EU border with Russia, will dwarf the previous curtain, in size, scope and implication for world security.

You think it's a coincidence that Ukraine is suddenly in turmoil as soon as the EU is told to take a hike and the deal is off with Ukraine joining the EU, but you somehow think this is a Russian land grab?

That's ridiculous.

This vibes with me. I thought it was too absurd to be true that this whole Ukraine debacle was Moscow looking to expand Russian territory. On the other hand the EU attempting a hostile takeover of Ukraine just as it threatened to side with Russia makes more sense.

I don't like this whole European Union thing. There's something fishy about it. Here the EUR is getting pumped up to new highs, a strong bear signal gets sent after what looked to be a likely triple top, the Ukrainian Hryvna collapses and the EUR makes for a sharp rebound.

I wouldn't be surprised if a few months down the road the Ukraine's economy deteriorates more and the EU makes an offer for them to discard their Hryvna and join the Eurozone, but hey that would probably be too obvious so I doubt they could get away with it. Anyway it worked either way as easy money and a way to prop up the EUR but it's still BS because Ukraine's economy is hurting.

EU better hurry up because joining the Eurozone won't be looking as attractive when the US shows its' first symptoms of a bearish reversal and their currency takes a nosedive. But here while the EUR is looking strong at highs it would look like an attractive offer. Sure there was a lot of money to be made on the Hryvna downside but I have a feeling in the long term the EUR downside will be several times more lucrative.

a reply to: MysterX

I think you may be on to something. Isolate Russia and withdraw financially from it despite its' richness in resource and infrastructure developed to the point of being able to take advantage of this position doesn't seem like a way to weaken Russia, it seems like a way to strengthen it. This also opens it up to China considering Moscow Exchange is trading at a good price and good support, the west has lost much of its' financial leverage as there aren't much likely profits left in trying to break its' support. China can buy up huge amounts of shares from stocks that were already undervalued relative to western stocks and this will lead to increased economic trade between the two. All of Russias latent material resources combined with Chinas latent human and financial resources tapped co-operatively could make these nations much stronger and more independent from the west. In the long - term the west could find itself scrambling. But at the same time this could possibly give the western powers even more power over their own countries as they focus on re-structuring to reduce dependence on China.

Or this Ukraine situation may have escalated to its' climax and now it's just going to be a big squabble about Crimea and Russian dominance over the eastern regions. Then after Ukraine stabilizes there can be more collaboration of Russian and European interests, for the benefit of all three parties.

I'd like if the US use its' power and influence to keep this conflict isolated between Russia, Ukraine and the EU and to curb any conflict between Russia and the EU.