Debunked to Death

Ok I�ve wanted to post this for some time now, but I�ve just been so lazy to. Now it�s Friday afternoon in Wales and I�m getting ready to go out. But before I do, I must get this off my chest. First off let me say that I�m totally guilty of this and so are many of the members of the AboveTopSecret.com community. So don�t accuse me of hypocrisy, call me a heretic and burn me at the stake because I don�t deserve it�yet. But who am I to say what I deserve anyway? Enough. On with the post.

Debunked to Death
Yes that is the term I�m going to start using. It�s common activity on ATS. Debunked to death is what we do. Whenever we are presented with a member claim, story, or evidence we do a process called debunking.

For those of you that don�t know, debunking is way to approach a subject in order to prove it false or valid. Debunking can take on the form of flaming, questioning, analyzing, video enhancing, comparison, or simply just finding discrepancies in the story. We debunk because we want to live by our creed: �Deny Ignorance�. No one wants to be �had�, �made a fool of�, or �deceived� (see Aussie Bloke) and that is our inspiration to debunk. Debunking gives us that warm fuzzy feeling inside, kind of like when you climb up the pole in gym class (females, you have no clue). It makes us feel as if we accomplished something and made the ATS community somehow just a little better.

But now debunking has genetically evolved and mutated into something that we can�t handle. It�s a creature literally. We no longer debunk. We Hyper-Debunk. Hyper-debunking is destroying AboveTopSecret.com.

I know the above sentence is going to be grossly quoted during this thread, but that is what I genuinely feel. Let me get flamed for it, I�m ready. Because eventually this thread is going to be Hyper-debunked. But let me tell you what Hyper-Debunking exactly is.

Hyper-Debunk � An attempt to render any statement, story, or morsel of evidence false. The possibility of truth has been disregarded. It can no longer be held by the magestrium of truth. It is false. We know it�s false. And its just a matter of time before we discover how its false.

Here is an example. A new member signs up to ATS and post pictures of an alien sitting in a swing set waiving at him. The photo takes place in the middle of the day in the confines of his backyard. He posts it and also video-taped the event on his Hi-8 camcorder. He doesn�t know how to digitize the video and doesn�t have to time to learn as he is busy working an 8-5 struggling to put food on the table. We don�t hear from until a week later. Here is what he is greeted to:

- The aliens head is disproportioned.
- Look how the aliens moves his arm, its too jerky.
- The skin looks like it�s plastic.
- Aliens only use telepathic forms of communication, they wouldn�t wave.
- Wheres the ship? Aliens ONLY travel in ships.
- When you walk up to an alien, electronic equipment is disrupted, why is your camera still operating?
- Aliens are hypo-allergenic to swing-sets. This event could never happen.
- Why don�t you hurry up and digitize the video. Only a hoaxer would lie about not having video.
- Why did the alien come in your backyard. What�s so special about you?

And of course my all-time favorite�

- It looks too perfect to be real, so I�m going to say it�s a hoax

Yes these responses might seem over the top. But these were actually derived from actual responses posted on ATS regarding Ghost, UFO, and Alien evidence.

The above responses are forms of Hyper-debunking. Screw them, they don�t belong on AboveTopSecret.com nor do they belong in the dialect of any person trying to prove or disprove anything. You�ve heard of Pseudo-science. These are pseudo-comments in the form of hyper debunking.

How do you know the portions of an Aliens head?
Is it a prerequisite that aliens must travel in ships in order to exist?
Maybe alien skin resembles plastic.
How do you know what aliens prefer or what they don�t like?

�etc

Pseudo-comments. The list goes on.

I�m looking at my clock and it�s about time to go out, so I�m going to wrap this up although I intended this to be an overly long post. But we all know no one reads long post!

Anyway, final thought:

Hyper-debunking has no place on AboveTopSecret.com

[Edited on 11/27/2004 by Simulacra]

I love you, I really do. Well not really, but I agree. No one really knows what the alien would look like or do. Its brilliant.

"Hyper-debunking is destroying AboveTopSecret.com."

As predicted i'll quote that sentence.

Seems these days everything is destroying ATS from younger members to flaming.

I'm getting rather sick of these melodramatic statements, they lack perspective and they are starting to dominate this forum.

Perhaps Simulacra would prefer it if every claim were greeted without criticism. I would not. There is no middle ground. Anyone submitting info here knows that it will be tested to the full but they also know that if they pass through it then they have credibility.

No questions, no credibility.

The first route of these sort of comments should be private and through the "complaint" feature rather than these types of topics which frankly do not help in any way however well written they are.

Staff are constantly evaluating the board and discussing it.

ATS is embarking on a process of technological change which will transform it very much for the better.Perhaps members who love this site as I do will hold off on this naval gazing until we all have a chance to get turned around.

If any member has an issue with any post they can contact a staff member either by U2U or by the complaint feature.

Man, I'm, really surprised we have lasted so long and grown so big!

Skeptic, I hope you are learning from all these young turks you've just shown up, looked around and have realized we are in a tail spin! Pull up, Overlord, before we auger into the landscape!!!!



Sorry, I couldn't help it.

Originally posted by John bull 1
Seems these days everything is destroying ATS from younger members to flaming.

No it's the people with green profile backgrounds that are destroying ATS.

I'm happy with how ATS is progressing and how it is being moderated

Posting a pic of a UFO, or alien, or whatever, is an attempt to debunk
the "truth" as is currently understood/believed..

So what's the difference?

It works both ways..you see

Originally posted by UK Wizard
I'm happy with how ATS is progressing and how it is being moderated

My complaint is not with how its being moderated. It's with the ordeal of Hyper-Debunking.

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Posting a pic of a UFO, or alien, or whatever, is an attempt to debunk
the "truth" as is currently understood/believed..
So what's the difference?
It works both ways..you see

I have NO problem with debunking. It's Hyper-debunking that makes absolutely no sense.

Originally posted by John bull 1
I'm getting rather sick of these melodramatic statements, they lack perspective and they are starting to dominate this forum.

How does my statement lack perspective?

Originally posted by John bull 1
Perhaps Simulacra would prefer it if every claim were greeted without criticism. I would not. There is no middle ground. Anyone submitting info here knows that it will be tested to the full but they also know that if they pass through it then they have credibility.

I don't think your understood the meaning of my post. I have no problem with debunking. It's great. I encourage it. But it's the hyper-debunking that makes absolutely no sense.

Edit: Sorry for the triple post ATS.

[edit on 11/27/2004 by Simulacra]

Originally posted by Simulacra
My complaint is not with how its being moderated. It's with the ordeal of Hyper-Debunking.

Sorry I misunderstood you

I see nothing wrong with hyper debunking, not everyone is going to have to same opinion, in this thread, i refused to believe any of pictures as that type of evidence doesn't cut it for me. I need phyiscal evidence i can touch.

Originally posted by me in another thread
Personally i'd require and little grey to walk up to me and shake my hand before i believe that aliens visit earth....or a UFO landing in my back garden would do....I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just a very skeptical person

...It's a form of lying in situ. The person who discounts anything and everything someone else writes--indiscriminately--is NOT LISTENING. His agenda is more important.

...Having endured four years of this practice at NYTIMES/Abuzz--with no moderators in place and no let-up--it became very clear to me there are people sitting at computers who are paid to do this TO people whose views DISSENT. Fonghoul, bruced and massagattos did this for a living.

...REMEMBER NOW, Dissent from established views is forbidden. One would think we were living in the ancient Chinese Imperial Court, the way people use "Everybody said," and "We all know" as justifications for the most extreme language.

Here's an example of hyper-debunking: QUOTE:

"First of all, Clinton is a lying scumbag who will bend over for every country before helping US. To me he is a traitor and needs to be shot on the spot. He helped out the Chinese in so much lax security at the US National Labs, the secrets stolen are priceless. There have been 40 deaths linked to the Clinton Office. Crime was up during the Clinton era, now it is decreasing. This scumbag needs to be taken to Abu Gharib prison and treated in the correct manner for treason."--UNQUOTE.

...The intention of this paragraph doesn't appear to have anything to do with conveying accurate information, nor with reasoning, nor with creating a better world. It's simply to act out Hate and Revenge.

...You know, that stuff just wears me down; it's no fun at all to have to deal with; but I confront it. I'm not letting people do that without comment.

Thank you simulacra, for bringing this up.

Originally posted by SimulacraIt looks too perfect to be real, so I�m going to say it�s a hoax

Yeah most the stuff you listed there are people who present opinions as a matter of fact. They're entitled to do that and the people who are intelligent enough to understand that will see right through it. All and all though people are entitled to their opinions good bad or indifferent.

What's with the rash of ATS doomsday posts? I guess there's not enough going on in the world these days.

Er..Simulacra, whats this about "aussiebloke"? How many Aussie members are there? just curious.

Originally posted by instar
Er..Simulacra, whats this about "aussiebloke"? How many Aussie members are there? just curious.

Not Aussie members. The summer of 2004 was the Aussie Bloak era. Some members of the board believed that the world was going to be destroyed by a few asteroids. This scare was created by a person calling himself Aussie Bloke. I believe it to be one of the most defining moments of ATS.

Simulacra, great post i agree with you on this 100%. I was had with the aussiebloke threads as well. I think that when your new at ATS you tend to be more gullible and you fall for more things than usual. I can speak from experience. However I can say you go through almost a kind of learning process through the months on ATS and you start to learn to pick up on things that either sound real or not. Getting flamed hurts and teaches the newer members to do the same. As we all know there is a big variety of ages among members and some are more impressionable than most. I believe its up to the more experienced and "elder" members to help out these newer members and also take it easy on there first few posts. But this also goes both ways, respectively new and old members have to take respect for the forums and not post silly or hoax threads. And older members need not put someone down for there post nor debunking to death... so to speak. Thank you

I understand your point but we MUST question EVERYTHING to get to the truth about anything. I touched on this on another thread but it is worth repeating.

If we are going to raise UFO and Paranormal research from the tabloid level to a serious subject then we can not blindly back everyone who claims to have "secret" knowledge or has been "abducted." We hurt ourselves and our community by doing this. Just as all the stories are probably not BS but on the other hand all the stories are not true.

Every time some one that has a following is shown to be a fake it effects even those that are creditable, the public tends to lump us all togather. The answer does not lay in 3-4 million people a day being abducted or lizardmen disguised as president Bush, but in finding the one or two or one hundred stories that CAN NOT be denied. Then the public will have to listen and the government will have to explain.

I know this is not the de-bunking you are talking about but we do need to keep in mind every time we wave BS under the publics nose and claim its true than the harder it will be to make them believe the truth

I have to aggre with him also. Even though I am rather new here I have noticed alot of sarcasim, insulting, and intimidation posts. I think that people should just admit it when they have been proved wrong and know it and also try to give real evidince not what they think. ( yes i know I did that in one of E_C's posts)
If people posted for real and not " just to post" I think the quality of the content on ATS would be greatly improved. A little kindness never hurt anyone. No offense E_C but im not a big fan but ive been tryign my best to be nice and calm to her along with providng viable evidince to the best of my knowldge. If more people could do this ATS whould be a much better place for Knowldge and elightnement.

ATS' whole pourpose of Deny Ignorance is a gret concept our posters often forget that and get carried away by the title ABOVE TOP SECRET. They see this as a site to inquire about the paranormal, goverment, adminstrations, consparicies.. They have all teh right to but when its post like... " The alien put a chip in my leg how do i get it out?" how is that Denying Ignorance.

The site should be about Denial of Ignorance not i had a fight with smirak of savuran 5.

if that made no sense dont worry im tired and distracted

hyper-debunking is fun though...

aliens are allergic to swings i love it

Originally posted by they see ALL
hyper-debunking is fun though...
aliens are allergic to swings i love it

Most of those comments were actually based off the ET:Alien Interview Thread. Check it out to get a sense of what exactly 'Hyper-Debunking' is.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just wanted to bump this thread again because I've seen a lot of Hyper-Debunking happening the past couple of weeks.