God's Law; Your wife

On the subject of stoning adulterers, I made these comments in the thread God's Law; Your wife

"We may think these laws are imperfect, and don’t match up to other principles found in the Bible.
Jesus draws our attention to one of these discrepancies.
He affirms God’s objection to the practice of divorce, based on the statement in Genesis that man and wife “shall become one flesh”.
This shows a clear intention that the commitment should be permanent.
Why then, do the laws allow a man to give a bill of divorce?
Because of “the hardness of your hearts”- Matthew ch19 vv3-9
In other words, God compromised, for the moment, allowing them to apply a law which did not meet his final intentions, because they were not yet ready to accept anything better.

And what about the death-penalty for adultery?
It reflects a zeal for thoroughness in “purging this evil from the midst of you”, removing threats to the all-important marriage relationship.
At the same time, though, it suggests a very human impatience with more “gradual” ways of dealing with bad practices.
Jesus himself was reluctant to enforce it (John ch8 vv1-11), which shows that here again he had doubts about whether it really expressed God’s will.
In other laws, we find the principle that life is forfeit only in exchange for another life; that’s the value of human life in God’s eyes.
So the use of the death-penalty for a lesser offence may not match God’s final intentions, and may be as much a compromise with human “hardness of heart” as was the permission to divorce."

On the subject of stoning anyone God never ever gave anyone any orders to kill, maim or stone. That is the devil. The scriptures are gnostic and the difference between their true meaning, the real information being given, starting with Genesis 32 30, and the pineal being the city to meet God in, versus this very dark grims fairy tale does even worse than hide something, it twists God into the Devil, and bears false witness against the real God, the Infinite Spirit of Peace and Love the unites all Advanced Progressed Higher State beings.

And being an inner journey, even what Christ said, it was never intended as an outer law, it was but a morality issue, and an inner guidance to perfect.

And here is the thing, we all come in with witnesses, Love and Wisdom/Common Sense. In the end, we can't say, oh the minister, pope or book said this, so we pushed down that feeling in our heart of horror knowing it was wrong, because outer is the beast and we are supposed to question everything around us. If its not truly kind, caring, never give up on anyone, Love its not God. If your salt grows flat.....

reply to post by Unity_99

You blame the devil, I blame "hardness of heart".
I think we're really talking about the same thing.

Historical footnote;

The "Wicked Bible" was an edition of the Bible printed in London in 1631, which became notorious because it accidentally left out the word "not" from the commandment against adultery.

There was not space in the OP to comment on the law of Numbers ch30 vv3-15.
This chapter is about the need to keep the commitments which have been made by oath, but also allows father or husband the right of veto over the oaths made by a woman.
These might be oaths about pledging something to the Lord.
Or perhaps oaths might also be used in making business agreements.
Either way, the veto would be based on the principle that the father or husband is the real owner of whatever was being given, bought or sold.
As such, it reflects the male domination of society as already mentioned in the OP.

For information; a companion thread on "daughters" will be published later this evening.

reply to post by DISRAELI

And what about the death-penalty for adultery?
It reflects a zeal for thoroughness in “purging this evil from the midst of you”, removing threats to the all-important marriage relationship.

It reflects someone who is incapable of thinking of a solution less violent and barbaric.

But you're free to think otherwise of course

Lucid Lunacy
It reflects someone who is incapable of thinking of a solution less violent and barbaric.

That is exactly what I said in the lines immediately following the lines you quoted.
I suggested the reliance on the death penalty came from the human element in the equation.
But I don't suppose you read that.

I made the same reply the first time you made that comment, but I don't suppose you read that either.

You said

"At the same time, though, it suggests a very human impatience with more “gradual” ways of dealing with bad practices."

Brutally murdering people for cheating is not "impatience". It's not a matter of too lazy to figure out a better solution.

It's demonstrating a complete lack of empathy.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Yes, but you didn't originally realise that you were agreeing with me.

reply to post by DISRAELI


I misunderstood. Please see my edit.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

In short, as I said, they were like the other nations around them.
See my second post, where I suggest that educating a people up to New Testament standards of morality needed just as much time and patience as the education of a child from infant-class level to university level.

reply to post by DISRAELI


As I already showed a superior morality co-existed with it. No need to bring in the NT to see that. Sure they reflected other nations of the time….but not all of them

As for the New Testament ushering in a better morality. Why didn't god incarnate earlier to do it?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Similarly, why are 11-year old schoolboys not taught to understand the equations of Einstein? Because they are not yet ready?

reply to post by DISRAELI


Not yet ready? I think you're ignoring the other half of my post.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

So your claim is that the morality of this set of humans was worse than the morality of another set of humans?
My point is that, whether this is true or not, the purpose of these laws was to improve it, something which could not be done sudddenly.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Not so much my personal claim. More like an empirical fact. That is unless you dispute what I posted is morally superior. In which case I would question your character. My point is, in light of people obviously existing during those times that in contrast demonstrated higher moral thinking, why didn't god incarnate then. Your point was that god wouldn't incarnate until the people were ready to understand higher moral thinking.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

The Biblical process is about the training of this particular people, so he was moving at the pace appropriate for this particular people.
There's not just a sudden jump from Old Testament to New Testament- gradual changes are already developing through the Old Testament period.
And I don't suggest that this process was the only factor in the timing of the Incarnation. Not knowing everything about the Biblical God's plans, i don't presume to know all the factors involved.

This thread now has two sequels, which continue the theme of "family law".
Your daughters
Your sons

There is now a "family law" group of threads covering four topics (which are divided in this way partly to bring each theme within the 7500 character limit which ATS demands).

Your wife
Your daughters
Your sons
Your family's land

Unity_99

rival
I don't recall of any "Gods" ever writing any laws...

I have heard of "men" writing laws and claiming it was under
God's instruction, but that's something less than an
actual God taking pen to paper.

This! Also even though the scriptures are metaphoric and always pertaining to inner things, our inner Michael defeats our inner dragons. Nonetheless there may be places where astronomy, astrology, past cycles and occult information, (there are a few dark things in there as well) and there may be twists of words, that don't express things clearly, on purpose by Rome along with some twists on morality, again by Rome, or the Jewish Scholars, but all going back to Sumar/Annanuki stuff.


So, this could be a set of rules from the slavers/ptb, but I can also see some inner meanings and metaphors as well.

For Mother, is the right hemisphere of the brain, the subconscious, and the pineal. Father is the left hemisphere, the conscious and more ego based part of us, and the pituatary. The offspring is The Son, or the flowering forth of the thalamus region, with the veil rending, and the son of man becomes the Son of God.

So, here could very well be a series of warnings about allowing your inner work and diretion to be polluted or nade unwhole, by other ideas, contamination akin to adultery. And so we are to go within. The wedding of the male and female is to be inner seeking and doing the work one came to do, overcoming the body suit , ie beast and gaining understanding, compassion, temperance, and love/wisdom. And overcoming ego. Shrugging off the temptress, temptations and the outer programs.

So I can see both some twists from PTB AND inner meanings here.

However, aside from being faithful, caring about making others happy more than self, and never harming another, abandoning family, causing such pain and suffering amongst spouse or children, and all that it means to grow up, which is a true integrity virtue, the harsh punishments never ever came from God. God is Love, only SATURN/SATAN, harms or smites.

And the freedom to leave dysnfunctional relationships is also God given. Inner wisdom reveals that.

That would be St. George defeating the dragons.

And what does the ancient Jewish scribes have to do with Annunaki, as it was Sumerian and much older?