Minimum wage hike would kill a half-million jobs: CBO

Economically, minimum wage has always proven to be a loser. Jobs that pay minimum wage are supposed to be entry level jobs. Going to 'college' and getting a 'degree' doesn't guarantee anything. Getting an education in a field that has marketable value does. It's also very important with any field that requires a degree for the student/graduate to excel in the degree (read GPA here). That usually means work, and a lot of folks these days seem to shy away from that. Another thing is being willing to accept lower paying jobs to get experience, because after all about 99.999% of students straight out of university are virtually useless until they get industry experience (in all of the industries I've every been in anyway). Becoming marketable isn't all about pursuing that career that makes you feel good, unless of course you can feel good about your career and succeed by making it marketable. Society and business owe you nothing. You need to work for it.

NONPOINT21
reply to post by xuenchen

 

I'm not saying McDonalds is small by any means, but for example sake, if you raise minimum wage to 10.10 then every burger has to go up .40 cents or more which only actually hurts the middle class. Now introducing the $2 menu.

The middle class will be harmed much more by actually eating McDonald's burgers than it will be by paying an extra 40 cents for them. Maybe if the price of fast food went up dramatically due to an increase in the minimum wage there would be fewer morbidly obese Americans with chronic diseases requiring expensive medical care.

Just "saying".

reply to post by xuenchen


Minimum Wage increase would only kill jobs in certain industries because the greedy, rat-#e CEOs and other executives actually believe they are worth what they pay themselves. Other industries will just pass the cost onto consumers.

A perfect example of a US company doing very well economically is Costco. The CEOs are still wealthy by they pay their employees above minimum wage and provide health care (and last I checked Obamacare didn't change things for Costco).

So yes, raising minimum wage will kill a lot of jobs in certain industries. But that's simply because the executives are greedy f&@ktards who are obvious incapable of solving the real problem.

The winners with an increased minimum wage:

- people who work for minimum wage, or any wage below $10.10. The benefit is relative to the amount they make now, and the average hours per pay period

- The government, who will now have a nearly 50% increase in income taxes. The taxes the employee pays is only part of the equation. The other half (or more) is what the employer pays.

The losers:

- Business. Higher wages and higher payroll tax. Yay.

- Anyone who buys anything. What, you think business is going to take it in the keister for their minimum wage employees? Nope...prices will go up.

In the end, even the minimum wage employees really don't benefit, as prices shirt upwards to account for the additional labor costs for low cost items. But now your kids can make $10.10 an hour doing whatever it is they do.

Why does the real issue here get ignored? Our currency is slowly devalued (its called "inflation"), so that every year it takes a little more to make it. Were this not happening, were the dollar not rotting, minimum wage would likely never need to be looked at for increase.

reply to post by WCmutant


BBRROOO you dont understand!

Paying people will ruin the economy duhhh!

I see so much crying about raising the minimum wage so that the jobs that require next to no skill sets can pay a livable wage.

reply to post by hangedman13


These low wage jobs you speak of don't require no skills...in fact, they require a number of skills. They just do not require specialized skills.

What does that mean for entry level jobs that require some skill??

I suspect that they will offer higher than minimum wage to attract those skills....as they do now.

Are they going to scale up to make them worthwhile jobs? Very doubtful

These jobs have worth...otherwise they wouldn't exist.

You can rail against the evil corporations all you want, but without them there are no jobs period

And you can rail all you want, but without CONSUMERS, corporations have no market....no market means no profit. People can't spend money they don't have. That means no products get bought....no services are required. Corporations go broke....or as would happen now...they would be bailed out ad infinitum.....just as the banks are now. Either way...it is a huge burden on the government....ie. YOU, through increased taxation to subsidize the same corporations.

In which case you get to deal with all the extra hoops our friends trying to raise the min wage have set up. Permits, licenses and inspections all the fun hurdles you get to go through before even worrying about actual costs of day to day running.

This is a separate issue that has nothing to do with the need for a raise in the minimum wage. That goes straight to where the blame for this lies....squarely with the people. Laws get enacted everyday that do nothing to benefit society. I agree that government red tape is killing business...but as i said....a topic for another thread.

If you notice the trend when you work that unless you are a ceo or other corporate big wig, lots of people get a piece of your pie.

My point exactly. Our share of the pie is exceedingly small....and shrinking more all the time. The cost of living keeps increasing, yet wages stay flat vs inflation. All this despite a more than 30% increase in over all worker productivity in the last 30 years.

To my point...observe the following....

CEO to Worker pay

Wallmart....1034:1
Target.....597:1
Walt Disney.....557:1
MacDonalds......434:1

Now do you see why your piece of the pie seems so small?

Seems you made my point for me.

reply to post by Mamatus


I know what you mean.....

Here is how an Increase in Minimum Wage will effect a business and you as the consumer......



You raise the minimum wage and something has to give. Costs WILL got up, that's a given. Even if a business only passes half of the cost of a Government Mandated wage increase to fellow business with their product, it would still necessitate the end consumer business raising prices 15% to still make the same money as a business owner.

The Person making that new wage isn't exactly styling either.....instead of making $15,392 a year (7.40hr time 40 hours a week time 52 weeks) they now will make $21,008. But now prices of everything they buy will cost 15% more and since most minimum wage people spend 100% of income, they have a net wage increase of $3,151 a year or $1.51/hr....all of that is before taxes. Inflation would follow any major increase in the minimum wage. If you disagree, then please spell out in detail why costs wouldn't rise?

The answer is obvious......we need Government mandated prices and Government mandated profit margins as well as Government mandated wages. The New American Dream.

Nope...prices will go up.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Prices are going up no matter what....inflation has seen to that and "they" still aren't done inflating yet....in fact, it seems there is no end in sight. Hyperinflation is a truely frightening beast....and it's coming. Add to that the fact that most row crops are grown in California...and as you know it has been experiencing a severe drought....and you are most certainly going to see higher prices...wayyyyyy higher. This increase in the minimum wage will be sorely needed for many families.

So, if we raise the minimum wage, people will get paid more, but they will end up doing two or three people's jobs, and less people will be hired. Those greedy, corrupt CEO's will do ANYTHING so that they don't get a cut in their checks.

deadcalm

To my point...observe the following....

CEO to Worker pay

Wallmart....1034:1
Target.....597:1
Walt Disney.....557:1
MacDonalds......434:1

Soooo...... just so I am clear. What exactly would be a good ratio for you for a CEO?

Obviously the stockholders of those companies seem to feel that the return on those salaries are worth the cost of those CEO'S. Is it worth paying "fair market price" for someone's talents, goods or services?

The main problem with minimum wage is that you can raise the minimum wage to any amount you want but it does zero for the minimum wage worker.

Going from $7.25 to $10.10 is a 39.3% increase. As a result of the new increased wage, all items will go up 39.3% to offset the expense. So instead of paying $3.25/gallon for gas, you will pay $4.52/gallon. And you can count on that being the very first thing that increases in price. Milk, bread, meat...it will all go up in price very quickly. Those that are making $9.00/hr, will more than likely only go up to $10.10/hr. So they become basically punished for doing a little better than minimum wage.

But let's look at things that do not change overnight. Welfare checks and food stamps. The amounts remain unchanged, so with the increases in food prices and gasoline the dependent effectively take a 39.3% cut in how far their dollar will go. The FPL (Federal Poverty Level) number will not change overnight either. So many that are "working poor" will lose their benefits that they depended upon today to get by today.

Well, we can't have the people barely getting by to no get by so we have to eventually change those numbers. So more tax dollars need to be spent to keep the poor and working poor eating and have electricity. And here is where it becomes interesting, a higher tax burden has to be placed on less people because there are 500,000 less employees and even less in the barely above (within 2-3 dollars per hour) the new minimum wage.

A far more simple solution to "raise minimum wage" is to not give any tax breaks or incentives to companies that have any employee making below let's say $15.00/hr (or even this proposed $10.10 per hour). Why the government rewards minimalist behavior when the goal is to improve the economy in ways that allows tax money to freely flow with the least amount of effort or oversight.

reply to post by Ahabstar


Getting an education in this country is massively expensive.

amfirst1
reply to post by rickymouse

 

They don't pay their loans until after college and most likely they will land a job that pays more than the minimum. Minimum is for teenagers. I used to make $5.50 an hour and moved up, way up. It's not meant to be permanent. I rather have a job then not have a job.

I know a half dozen people with degrees that work in the food industry. Two are managers at two local Subways, one works at Subway, one works at Menards, and another works as a waiter in a restaurant. They are friends of my kids. The jobs just aren't out there yet for a regular college grad to get a job in their fields. There are openings in the medical field yet these jobs are also being filled by people with higher credentials than the job requires.

I don't know how jobs are where you live, but I have been told that this is going on a lot around the country.

Get off your a** and find a better job. One that requires SKILLS. Fast food jobs employ poorly educated, unskilled workers. Why should they get more money for doing nothing? They get more money and everything else goes up, its a lose-lose. I worked at a grocery store for minimum wage in high school and moved up from there, that's kind of how it works. Go to college for a piece of paper that says "I PAID A BUNCH OF MONEY AND STILL DON'T KNOW SH*T" or go out and find a better job that pays more. Don't dare tell me their not out there, either. Look harder. If your still having problems, lower your standards and take what you can get for God's sake.

Oh and for all the people working in the fast food industry, I know this is a generalization but I see it EVERY time i go into a restaurant, MAKE YOURSELF MORE PRESENTABLE AND MAYBE SOMEONE WILL GIVE YOU A CHANCE! Tattoo's and piercings all over your body won't exactly make you what I would consider a "Desirable employee". Plus, most of the workers in fast food and lower wage jobs really don't care if they are there or not, they're LAZY. Sure, there is a select few that actually work hard day in and day out at places like that but its few and far between.


Everyone deserve's a decent wage but if you want it you'd better be willing to work for it and not have it handed to you.


EDIT: I did NOT go to college and I am making substantially more than minimum wage. If I can do it, surely a college graduate can.

reply to post by xuenchen


You should check the source of the article. Everyone can relax!

The Washington Times

wiki

"The Washington Times is a daily broadsheet published in Washington, D.C. It was founded in 1982 by the founder of the Unification Church, Sun Myung Moon, and until 2010 was owned by News World Communications, an international media conglomerate associated with the church."

brice
reply to post by xuenchen

 

You should check the source of the article. Everyone can relax!

The Washington Times

wiki

"The Washington Times is a daily broadsheet published in Washington, D.C. It was founded in 1982 by the founder of the Unification Church, Sun Myung Moon, and until 2010 was owned by News World Communications, an international media conglomerate associated with the church."

edit on 18-2-2014 by brice because: typo

Great Catch !!!

Now check the New York Times;

WASHINGTON — A popular Democratic proposal to raise the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour, championed by President Obama, could reduce total employment by 500,000 workers by the second half of 2016. But it would also lift 900,000 families out of poverty and increase the incomes of 16.5 million low-wage workers in an average week.


Minimum Wage Increase Would Have Mixed Effects, C.B.O. Report Says

Human Sacrifice? Surely the government can do better....right?


and the CBO report itself;
CBO report

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Anyone who buys anything. What, you think business is going to take it in the keister for their minimum wage employees? Nope...prices will go up.

Right, Right Right,,, Some one has to pay the Piper and it's going to be the Consumer.
Here is an article of a restaurant in California that the owner has 50 employees and must
offer Healthcare under Obamacare, so he's passing the cost on to his customers through a
3% surcharge to pay for their healthcare.

HANCOCK PARK (CBSLA.com) — A local restaurant has added a surcharge to every tab in order to pay for its employees’ healthcare.
République, located on La Brea, is emerging as one of LA’s more popular, newer restaurants. However, the three percent surcharge is bringing about mixed reactions from the restaurant’s customers.

“Everyone has the same policy that I do as the owners,” owner and chef Walter Manske said. “And we offer it to everyone; (the) dishwasher, busboy, waiters, across the board.”

Linky
Now, if this owner is forced to pay all 50 employees $10.10 an hour, yes, dishwasher's, busboy's, waiters, Whoever!
Who in their right mind would think he's Going to Eat That Extra Hourly Cost, Who would think any small businessman would?
No, they'll add it to your bill one way or the other, the consumer will pay more, So, You Gained Nothing.

I just can't understand how anyone thinks a minimum wage job was a life time job choice.
Those job's are to get you trained for the future of financial responsibility not to buy a house and have a family.

deadcalm

Nope...prices will go up.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Prices are going up no matter what....inflation has seen to that and "they" still aren't done inflating yet....in fact, it seems there is no end in sight. Hyperinflation is a truely frightening beast....and it's coming. Add to that the fact that most row crops are grown in California...and as you know it has been experiencing a severe drought....and you are most certainly going to see higher prices...wayyyyyy higher. This increase in the minimum wage will be sorely needed for many families.

No, it won't. I am a person who sets prices for services and goods. My business model is ratio driven, meaning that if labor increases, so will the price of the stuff I am selling.

You cannot deny that. So that 2.85/hr more will soon be absorbed into the pricing schemes on the things they buy.

At at the end, its the government that makes all the money via increased payroll and income taxes. This isn't about people who sorely need help.

reply to post by guohua


Show me 50 million jobs that these people can be trained for.

No seriously do it.

I think at bottom it all comes down to this:

As our society is, we simply don't care about one another. If somebody is hungry, they probably deserve it. If they are poor, they probably deserve it. Either way, as long as "I" have "mine", the rest of "you" are none of "my" concern. As long as "I" have the luxuries "I" want, it's irrelevant if "you" have the necessities "you" need.

In short, we don't have a society. We have a mass of individuals who wouldn't give half a toss if nine out of ten people were experiencing massive suffering on a daily basis, as long as "I" was not one of them.

Frankly, I am ashamed of the members of my society. I have two young children, and it makes me sad that they are growing up amidst an entire nation of people who would just as soon spit on them as care about them as fellow human beings.