Why do Christians believe in Free-will if these Bible Verses are saying God predetermined everything

arpgme
reply to post by oktopus

 

This is completely off topic, and therefore your comment is spam.
We are not talking about what God or Jesus is, we are talking about whether or not The Bible is speaking for or against free-will.

Actually, I have a feeling he is right in his diagnoses. You would understand that we have free will if you believed. After reading your response to me, it is clear that you have that you have no understanding of who God is.

reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly


According to Christian Theology, God already knows everything. If God knows I will do something, but I don't do it, that would mean that I proved God wrong and that he doesn't know everything, so the only thing that I can do is what God already knows I will do.

reply to post by arpgme

According to Christian Theology, God already knows everything.

By theologians who probably were afraid that they would loose their jobs if they didn't come up with something really grandiose.
If it wasn't for such concerns, we the people would probably have come up with something a little more ordinary, I would think.
According to the Bible, that was what angels were for, to go out and see what was going on and to bring Him back reports.

reply to post by arpgme


Are you trying to accuse God of a lie?

Are you trying to put God into a bad light for others?

Beware!!

reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly

You would understand that we have free will if you believed. After reading your response to me, it is clear that you have that you have no understanding of who God is.

A believer would align his will with God's.
So he wouldn't be going around thinking about how he has "free" will.

jmdewey60
reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly

 

You would understand that we have free will if you believed. After reading your response to me, it is clear that you have that you have no understanding of who God is.

A believer would align his will with God's.
So he wouldn't be going around thinking about how he has "free" will.

You can choose to align your will with God's. It is a choice, of free will. But you already knew that and you are just saying silly things because you are annoyed.

arpgme
reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly

 

According to Christian Theology, God already knows everything. If God knows I will do something, but I don't do it, that would mean that I proved God wrong and that he doesn't know everything, so the only thing that I can do is what God already knows I will do.

Did you know that God specifically warned that people as foolish as you would say things as foolish as that?

Arpgme, let me try to explain your situation.

You never lied. You never intented to cause hurt, if you did, you found it to be beyound your control. I have no clue about your age. All you praise you have not yet become. You know by mind what you seek is true, the values you try to attain.

What you do wrong, is that you think you must attain them all by yourself!

Did you ever hear of... J e s u s ?

LORD Jesus is the support to obtain all you desire!

Diagnosing further. You know, inwards you are totally wrong! you have no clue where it comes from. You did not cause it yourself, and you hate it! You seem to have no love for others though you want to have.

Jesus is your savior! LORD Jesus. Praise Him up into the heavens, for at the moment you considered him probably lower than the dump you did in the toilet. Praise Him up into the heavens!!! Give Him the credit He deserves.

Jesus.. Jesus.. it's LORD Jesus!

When you pray, call Him Lord, you don't want to be called "rat" either when you are really a hippo, by figure of speach.

All you had in mind about what to become, is what LORD Jesus told you you can obtain when you make Him your LORD.

YOU are not the cause for your sinful nature, though you were born that way. I believe you hate it and want to get rid of it. LORD Jesus truly can transform yourself.

It's up to you! I know you will and you deserve the happy wellbeing.

reply to post by oktopus

oktopus
reply to post by arpgme

 

Are you trying to accuse God of a lie?

Are you trying to put God into a bad light for others?

Beware!!

No, and I'm not even sure how you came to that conclusion. Another false judgment. How many will you make in such a short time?

I said that if God knows everything then he already knows all of my actions I'll ever take, so only two things are possible:

I do not have free-will and therefore whatever God KNOWS must be fulfilled (because if I do something different that would mean that I surprised God and his knowledge was incorrect),

or God does not know everything and therefore I can choose any action since he doesn't already foresee it.

reply to post by arpgme


That's why I made my previous reply!

reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly

You can choose to align your will with God's. It is a choice, of free will. But you already knew that and you are just saying silly things because you are annoyed.

I don't think that it is "silly", and it has nothing to do with being "annoyed".
In the New Testament it says, "it is not of your own doing, lest any man may boast".
It never puts it into terms of it being a choice.

reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly

Did you know that God specifically warned that people as foolish as you would say things as foolish as that?

Did you know that the owners of this web site have specifically warned that name calling is a good way to get banned?

And don't you remember Jesus saying the one who calls someone a fool will go to hell?

reply to post by jmdewey60


there's no duality on this board. - Sad -

jmdewey60
reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly

 

You can choose to align your will with God's. It is a choice, of free will. But you already knew that and you are just saying silly things because you are annoyed.

I don't think that it is "silly", and it has nothing to do with being "annoyed".
In the New Testament it says, "it is not of your own doing, lest any man may boast".
It never puts it into terms of it being a choice.

That passage has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

jmdewey60
reply to post by FreeWillAnomaly

 

Did you know that God specifically warned that people as foolish as you would say things as foolish as that?

Did you know that the owners of this web site have specifically warned that name calling is a good way to get banned?

And don't you remember Jesus saying the one who calls someone a fool will go to hell?

edit on 15-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

What Jesus said is that calling someone a fool puts them in danger of hellfire. Similar to being angry. However, there are times when it is appropriate to call someone a fool and there are times when it is appropriate to be angry.

Anyways, I didn't call you a fool. I called you foolish for what you said, and it is true that you are foolish for what you said.

The easiest way to say it is just because God knows what you're going to do, doesn't mean you don't have a choice not to do it. We can all watch a car speeding down a road towards a cliff and know it's going to happen. Doesn't mean the driver doesn't have the choice to put on the breaks.

From many near-death experiences, many of them say time works different on the other side. There are many things they know on the other side that we don't quite understand in our linear time frame of mind. Think about the final destiny and punishment of Satan. God has preordained his fate. Now... could Satan somehow change that fate? Satan chose to abandon God and live outside of God's will. Is there any way that Satan could reconcile himself back to God? I don't think there is, and in that regard, Satan is predestined for the lake of fire. There's no way he can change that, and based on everything I know (meaning I have no clue), Satan would not chose another fate. It's his free-will to go there to the end because he has driven himself to this fate.

We absolutely have free-will, but there are things about us, inside us, that very few of us understand that probably makes the difference in this debate. Jesus said many times that he brought his message that those seeing would not see, while those who did not see would see and be saved. Did Jesus know every person who was going to chose to follow Him? He said that He knows who his sheep are and they hear His voice, and follow.

So as I sit here right now, I could chose to abandon my faith in Jesus, declare that everything He said was a lie, that the Holy Spirit is a lie, and the Father has no right to tell me a single thing. I could, it's my right of free-will, but I won't, and I will continue to do my best to chose Jesus, the Father, the Holy Spirit, and the love they bring to the world and the universe around us. I hope you all will exercise your right of free will and chose to follow them too. Don't follow Satan into his lake and final prison.

Another question, does God have free will? Consider the debate between God and Abraham over Sodom and Gomorah. Did God know Abraham would tallk him down to 10 people? Or was God so sure of His plan that it didn't matter, and He allowed Abraham to debate Him to the point that it wouldn't matter. What if Abraham had asked for one person, and then offered Lot as that person to spare the two cities?

Just a silly debate. We don't know, but the example this story tells us is that God is a part of the universe unfolding around Him, and He adapts, and maybe is willing to change His mind.

Do any of you believe in the power of prayer? If you do, then you have to believe in a certain amount of free will because it's our prayers that will allow God to change the fate of those around us. Does He know who will pray? Maybe the Father does, maybe He could, or maybe He choses not to know those things to allow free will to truly exist.

Meh, I'm incapable of thinking for God. As far as we are concerned, we have free will. As far as God is concerned, He will still hold us accountable for our actions, otherwise Jesus's sacrifice would be meaningless. And Jesus did have free will to chose not to go to the cross. He could have worshiped Satan in the desert and changed everything, so even God Himself has choice.