The throw away gun

Has anyone thought about having a relatively cheap firearm (preferably used), (Shotgun, lever or bolt action) to have on your person in the event of a TWEAWKI event?

Scenario: a TWEAWKI event happens near where you live, but has not really had too much impact other than power outages and refugees. So the town bands together and forms a local militia or deputizes people to keep order.

Here comes the authorities to “help”. And they demand that everyone turn in their weapons. Turning in your cheap, though functional firearm would help alleviate suspicion being cast on you. While you still have your cache in the case it comes time to fight back against this “Help”.

Then again, who knows, the authorities might want you to help as well by going out hunting to help feed the people and strengthen their ranks. The military and LEO/EMT/Firefighters/Safety forces will always be stretched thin. There are never enough. It would be suicidal to try to enforce martial law. It would behoove them to say, “Let us help you to help yourselves.”

If I had, I sure as hell wouldn't talk about it.

incoserv
If I had, I sure as hell wouldn't talk about it.

Ah yes, OPSEC.

Just throwing the idea out there for others who haven't thought about it. Sharing info is not always a bad thing. I refuse to become paranoid. I think that is what is wanted. Paranoid people are easily divided and easily kept quiet.

I am not sure where people get that idea that people will go insane and riot but after short thought it is easy to imagine. The states and parts of the world are chocked full of useless people who know nothing of value. Most people lack the ability and knowledge to be productive, useful and fill the country like a cancer, disease which keeps on reproducing.

This is why the knee jerk reaction to anything different or destructive motivates the peoples to be stupid, barbaric. Like children who know no adult will be around. I can see why people think they need guns. They most likely live in sub intelligent areas and are surrounded with like minded monkeys who have a hard enough time getting up and paying rent, affording a pack of cigarettes in a perfect world with hydro, water, and infrastructure that allows the ability to better yourself. Imagine with out those simple systems in place?

Problem with the people is they are all addicted to drugs, alcohol, egoism, pride, selfishness and the ignorant thought that one is unique, important, and rare runs rampant among people and if a scenario happens like mentioned, understand that in most cases it was well deserved.

More than likely any firearms worth being owned are on file somewhere. They'd know about your weapons sooner or later...either by paperwork or when you started shooting back.

BTW I'd say getting in a firefight or shooting back should be the last resort in that situation, unless your group vastly outnumbers any government force. For obvious reasons

reply to post by TDawgRex

Has anyone thought about having a relatively cheap firearm (preferably used), (Shotgun, lever or bolt action) to have on your person in the event of a TWEAWKI event?

Tough one. You have to assume TPTB know what type of ammunition you've bought. You've got to wonder who in the crowd might rat you out. Better to not be around anyone you can't trust implicitly.

they demand that everyone turn in their weapons.

If they've got this close it's already bad. Fight or bend over ... you'll know what to do. The choice may not be so hard if you're in a sizable group you know won't break. If they've got air it's a whole 'nother game.

the authorities might want you to help

You learned in the Army it is unwise to volunteer ... and that's all I've got to say about that.

Shadow Herder
I am not sure where people get that idea that people will go insane and riot but after short thought it is easy to imagine. The states and parts of the world are chocked full of useless people who know nothing of value. Most people lack the ability and knowledge to be productive, useful and fill the country like a cancer, disease which keeps on reproducing.

This is why the knee jerk reaction to anything different or destructive motivates the peoples to be stupid, barbaric. Like children who know no adult will be around. I can see why people think they need guns. They most likely live in sub intelligent areas and are surrounded with like minded monkeys who have a hard enough time getting up and paying rent, affording a pack of cigarettes in a perfect world with hydro, water, and infrastructure that allows the ability to better yourself. Imagine with out those simple systems in place?

Problem with the people is they are all addicted to drugs, alcohol, egoism, pride, selfishness and the ignorant thought that one is unique, important, and rare runs rampant among people and if a scenario happens like mentioned, understand that in most cases it was well deserved.

edit on 14-2-2014 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)

You can find all sorts of stories of cities recently going bonkers in pretty much a normal emergency. Things that didn't bother anybody forty years ago are freaking people out these days. But most rural areas, just shrug them off, fix the problem and move on. Maybe because they are used to it. And of course, most rural people use their guns for hunting, rather than self defense. Everybody knows everybody. And most will help a neighbor in need without thinking about it.

In a rural town it would also be easier to form a local protective group rather than a city. Of course, their number would be smaller, but probably more manageable.

I like the Survival forum, because just the word alone doesn't make you think of a fork in the road, but rather a tree, with many branches to contemplate.

TDawgRex

incoserv
If I had, I sure as hell wouldn't talk about it.

Ah yes, OPSEC.

Just throwing the idea out there for others who haven't thought about it. Sharing info is not always a bad thing. I refuse to become paranoid. I think that is what is wanted. Paranoid people are easily divided and easily kept quiet.

Many gun owners have more than one firearm already. I think I understand what you are saying and it might work however, with the tracking through purchase at registered dealers it might be problematic if they apply a database at who owns what. Person to person sales, if TPTB get serious, may not be a protection, again depending on how serious they get.

If they go door to door as an example like Katrina then it will be fight or turn them in. All the gun owners I know are very concerned with obeying the laws of the land....So they might grumble but will turn them in... As things stand today IMO.... just an early morning thought..... Let us both hope it never gets to that situation and knowing you through your post I figure you will figure out what needs to be done for you and your family.. I hope I would too.

reply to post by Shadow Herder


I think your right...if anything big happened it's pretty well agreed that the events would go something like...

1. TSHTF
2. The prepared hunker down or bug, the ruthless do ruthless things, the unprepared do nothing
3. Mass panic, mass looting, mass evacuations/people on the move
4. The prepared stay hunkered down, the ruthless live off of the unprepared, the unprepared begin to die off
5. Mass die off of the unprepared and weak
6. Ruthless look for/find/prey on/kill/get killed by the prepared
7. Survival of the fittest
8. ???

This looks pretty accurate:
Goodbye World

A TWEAWKI/SHTF event doesn't have to destroy the world. Just your part of it. A CAT 5 hurricane sweeping up the east coast without losing strength and all the tornados it spawns would be quite devastating. But it wouldn't affect the Mid-West much, with the exception of refugees and probably logistics.

The Mid-West would suffer a slower emergency, which if people were smart, they could prepare for. Rural areas are the perfect place for refugee camps as they have the room. And the military will be accompanying them to set up shop.

Hence, the scenario I presented.

reply to post by TDawgRex

1. Poop on the Prop - Bugging (in or out). Out is better if you're prepared. Not many are and that's why bugging in will be difficult.
2. Without Rule of Law - Not ready to shoot authorities unless they're trying to hunt me down. Everyone else ... not so much so.
3. The End of the World As We Know It - Survive.

I'd guess/agree RPH's chain of events (above) is about what one could expect.

I don't think the DoD will put people up in rural sites. The infrastructure to support that (millions) doesn't exist.

I honestly don't think you're gonna get any help from TPTB in a TEOTWAWKI scenario. They're gonna be too busy with other things. Best to stay out of their way ... and as far away as possible if you're armed. If I were able to survive such an event (unlikely), you'd see me coming out of the forrest twenty years later like those Japanese soldiers who hid on those jungle islands.

I doubt if the local officials here would try to disarm the hunters. They would have to call in the national guard from all the states to accomplish this. People have their guns here for many generations, they aren't going to give them up because the government thinks they are a threat. I think if the government would implement this, there would be a revolution so I doubt if they would ever attempt it. People would flock in with guns to protect their friends and this would result in a mess. Top it off with the fact that nearly every ex military and most national guard reservists and police have guns and that will show this will likely never occur in some areas. Especially small communities of sane people. Definition of sanity may be a factor in the last statement though. I think anyone who does not have a gun in their home to protect themselves is insane. If the criminals know everyone in an area is armed, they surely wouldn't break into an occupied home in the area. A simple call to the neighbors and every home in the area would have someone outside with a gun pointed at that person trying to break in. This is a good backup for the cops coming to arrest the individual who is breaking in around here, most of us here respect our local police and would assist them in a situation like this. Now the insane people who are scared to own a gun and teach their kids that guns make people bad, they will be cowering in their homes and be afraid. I think the police are necessary and I trust our local police. A person should never pull a gun on a police officer doing his job. You deal with this in the legal system. If the cop has gone crazy, call in to have the other cops come and restrain him from his activity. Once in a while things get out of hand, these guys are under a lot of pressure sometimes.

As you can see, I believe in our local police....some people are going to be deputized if this happens to uphold the law. I would rather be someone who is deputized. You get to keep your guns that way. Don't put your guns and ammo all in one spot if you are worried.

Snarl

I don't think the DoD will put people up in rural sites. The infrastructure to support that (millions) doesn't exist.

I honestly don't think you're gonna get any help from TPTB in a TEOTWAWKI scenario. They're gonna be too busy with other things. Best to stay out of their way ... and as far away as possible if you're armed. If I were able to survive such an event (unlikely), you'd see me coming out of the forrest twenty years later like those Japanese soldiers who hid on those jungle islands.

Maybe not in the millions, but there are all sorts of examples from all over the world where refugees camps are set up out in the country. It gets them out of the way that way. And they are usually pretty squalid as well.

But yea, I think I would avoid any large group of armed people if possible. If it isn't possible, I like to think that I can think pretty fast on my feet.

reply to post by rickymouse

I hope you will allow me to disagree with you in a civil manner. Let's talk this through if you have the time.

I think the police are necessary and I trust our local police.

I don't. I don't know the individual members of the police force. Trust is earned, and in the scenario TDawg presented there isn't much opportunity for that. I will have to say that things are different town to town ... and you know your town way better than I do. The sheriff used to come out to the farm I grew up on. Him ... I could have trusted.

A person should never pull a gun on a police officer doing his job. You deal with this in the legal system. If the cop has gone crazy, call in to have the other cops come and restrain him from his activity. Once in a while things get out of hand, these guys are under a lot of pressure sometimes.

I see this as situationally dependent. Cops are NOT doing their jobs when they're affecting my freedom. What they're doing is exercising authority. That authority is NOT something you get to have a say-so in.

As you can see, I believe in our local police....some people are going to be deputized if this happens to uphold the law. I would rather be someone who is deputized. You get to keep your guns that way. Don't put your guns and ammo all in one spot if you are worried.

Again, in the scenario presented, the probability is high that a higher authority than your local police will come in and take control. Do you really want to go live in the Houston Astrodome when they're done with you as a deputy?

Snarl
You learned in the Army it is unwise to volunteer ... and that's all I've got to say about that.

Normally you would be correct. Though I had a Platoon Sergeant that I knew how to read. He had a wicked sense of humor.

"Gather round guys! I need some volunteers!"

No one raises their hands or steps forward.

"Aw, C'mon. not even two of you?"

Me and my bud looked at each other and raised our hands (we were the lowest ranking at the time after all).

"Very good! You two have the day off! The rest of you, follow me."

True story.

reply to post by Snarl


I live in a small community in the backwoods. The local cops are not bad here. I know some of them personally. Sure there are a few overzealous ones that come in when they first get here, but they mellow out after a while. Some are a little overpowering but if you do not challenge them they are fine...if you are not breaking the laws. Even they can usually be reasoned with.

Location, location. I would not want to live in a big city where the cops do not have ties with most of the people. The police here do watch after their own and try to moderate their people. Sure, you can run into a cop who is extremely upset because somehow something he did giving a person a break went wrong, leaving him/her with an attitude to never give someone a break. People who like to deceive others take advantage of the breaks given to them and don't learn to stop their bad behavior.

These police are people just like you and I usually, I would rather trust my local police than the FBI or others that do not have ties to the local people. Sadly, if the SHTF the control will be given to these national organizations. This is my worry, these people are not one of us. Our local police here will try to work with us on this unless it appears that some people are going over the cliff with their paranoia.

No argument here, just a difference in opinion based on different conditions because of the locality. If TSHTF I will try to help my neighbors, but those who need the help, not those who do not need it. Communities should come together if something happens, not tear themselves apart. Civility should be observed. Even some of the kids that previously were troublesome may turn out to be a big benefit in a shtf scenario, if we tell them we need everyone to work together to make it through the time. Just because someone was a problem does not mean they cannot change...but the ones who are hooked on material things will not want to lose what they have. They may become the problem in this case, thinking they deserve more than others because of their social status.

I am not sure where people get that idea that people will go insane and riot

People rioted over a court verdict, so not too hard to imagine other possible causes.

As for any firearm of note being on a list....nope. Plenty of states don't require any kind of registration at all. No list anywhere with mine, and absolutely, fully in favor of having a burner weapon or two to give up to Uncle Sam to seem "compliant" when (not if) they do the gun grab. (it's definitely coming in my lifetime, I have zero doubt of that)

I have no plans to take on the government (even in a SHTF scenario), but I have no plans to be disarmed either.

Currently there are about 300 million firearms in the hands of around 125 million private citizens. There is roughly 2.5 million active duty military and national guard and about 1 million police officers.

Communication and logistics aside, numbers are not good for gun grabbing schemes in a very large scale situation. Especially considering their role is reduced to basically addressing hotspot problems first and foremost before establishing order.


They will ask for firearm turnins long before door to door. Unless that is a particular lockdown area.

The databases of gun records are housed in the central computers of states that keep records, and the national computers based in Arizona.

The OP outlined a scenario with local law enforcement tasked with doing the disarmament. Since my state doesn't register fire arms, some clerk would have to wade through years (decades) of old purchase orders and background checks, and communicate it to my local oppressors to make the whole thing work. Even then, a private sale between two non-dealers generates no paperwork. Thus the claim, "I sold it last year, to a guy at a chili cook-off," cannot be disproved.

In a SHTF scenario, I doubt the internets will be useful for record checks, especially with 200 million guns legally owned in the US. "Our website is really busy! please try back in a few hours!"

And then what? If a squad of soldiers is dispatched to my neighborhood, I can garan-damn-tee you that my wife is on one cell phone, while the teenagers are twittering to all their friends, that the gun grabbing has started.

It depends on the 'hood, but a squad of gun-grabbing "cops" in full battle dress might draw sniper fire as they walk away from the first house in the neighborhood. Just sayin.

That's where suburbanites would actually have it easier. If there are 50 homes in your neighborhood, and the 'cops' take 2 minutes at each house, then you have an hour and thirty-eight minutes to hide your stuff and agree on a story about how you sold the guns last year at a chili cook-off.

reply to post by tovenar


I gotta say, as you said, in an event, the internet would be down. That means so would cell service and twitter. But small towns and close neighborhoods would still get the word out fast.

That could be a good thing, or a bad thing, depending on how they would react.

But for the other part of my OP, how would people react if a small armed force came asking for help? Remembering JFK..."Ask not what can your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country?"