How Advanced Alien Civilizations Would Conquer the Galaxy - Fermi paradox -

Ismail

GargIndia
reply to post by Blue Shift

 

Yes, it is possible that an alien race tries to kill all earth humans and snatch their resources.

However each human (alien included) is bound to the universal law of karma or 'cause and effect'. So usually such effort ends in disaster for the attacking race.

I found your use of "usually" absolutely hilarious.
A universal law that usually applies...to waring intergalactic species the likes of which have never been observed.
Here, have a medal. No. Have two.

I am not a weaver of words. My use of English language can be imperfect.

Let us say this way - you get back what you do.

Any devices that you build cannot triumph over natural justice.

The civilizations that use the tool of 'violence' for winning over other races end up very badly.

The only correct way of winning over other people is the power of logic, the power of thought.

Of course there is always the possibility a species acts like an ass-hat just to be an ass-hat, but I doubt it.

And I question the actual intelligence of anything that goes around bullying people just cuz.

Space travel is dangerous business. You are unlikely to undertake it for "fun".

It would take massive resources of a civilization to build just one spaceship capable of travelling from one star to another in a realistic time frame. Any political authority in charge of that project would like to preserve the ship and define its mission objectives well.

A society capable of building a spaceship also evolves through the process of technological advancement. This evolution touches every aspect of the society, just as it is happening on earth.

But accidents can happen. For example, prisoners can capture a ship and escape. Intentions are very difficult to fathom and control.

I don't do drugs. People that tell other people to put the crack pipe down, are usually the users. I didn't write my post to you directly. You shouldn't be on this thread if you don't want to discuss the topic, civilly. Go do your judging on perhaps a more political thread.

Those who would conquer are not what I call advanced.

Also, what comes to mind in the outcomes for family situations, countries, planets, etc. All things when we're trying to hold onto freedom and equality or grow it, is its not how you win or lose that counts at all, its how you walk the journey. The overall is in Higher Hands for the lessons, relates to consequences and the up/down swings of the grade or global consciousness. Its like a teeter totter and we can bring in more good or negativity depending on whether we're doing the work we came to do and overcoming our own anger and problems, or whether we're asleep at the wheel. But the group consciousness and the Purpose or management on higher levels determines the type of school we're in, harsher or more advanced. Its not whether you win each battle, its how each individual walks the journey and how they wake up and refine the light and goodness within them and if possible, and if they're allowed to stay longer after working on some flaws, how they may shine that light and assist.

Thats the kind of universe we're in overall.

Unity_99
Those who would conquer are not what I call advanced.

Also, what comes to mind in the outcomes for family situations, countries, planets, etc. All things when we're trying to hold onto freedom and equality or grow it, is its not how you win or lose that counts at all, its how you walk the journey. The overall is in Higher Hands for the lessons, relates to consequences and the up/down swings of the grade or global consciousness. Its like a teeter totter and we can bring in more good or negativity depending on whether we're doing the work we came to do and overcoming our own anger and problems, or whether we're asleep at the wheel. But the group consciousness and the Purpose or management on higher levels determines the type of school we're in, harsher or more advanced. Its not whether you win each battle, its how each individual walks the journey and how they wake up and refine the light and goodness within them and if possible, and if they're allowed to stay longer after working on some flaws, how they may shine that light and assist.

Thats the kind of universe we're in overall.

Well the aliens may not be in your group consciousness and decide they dont like you because of it. Being an advanced race has nothing to do with the way you think. Science can be used for good or evil bottom line is like any living organism it will have its own thought patterns. And things that make perfect sense to them we think are hostile. And i so could see an alien raceof hunters developing if they turned out to be the dominate species on their planet. Even us humans we still revert back to those caveman instincts with the fight or flight response its programmed into us.

reply to post by dragonridr


Do you recall the cheesy movie BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS with john boy from the waltons fighting an alien conquerer in a ship shaped like a woman's torso with a group of alien allie's.
Well many claimed encounters speak of a galactic federation (though admitedly they probably watched one too many star trek episodes) now if this is real such a organisation of disparate and alien races bound by some common cause could have arisen in the face of such a conquering alien race whom was a threat to them all and may had dominated or even still dominate them forcing them to share resource to survive, or such could also be the result of multiple races being conquered and elevated by yet another form of conquerer.
I once read a short story in which a alien scout ship on the edge of a star desert that was thought to be devoid of life detected an alien vessel, this scout ship was crewed by several species and one was psychic, they were scared but you don't find out until the end, they make contact with the alien vessel and the psychic kill's it's crew, a crew of ape like hairless creatures whom she has identified as survivors of a terrible race whom once subjugated the galaxy but were overthrown and had been thought extinct after there world's and empire had been eradicated creating the deserts stars with no living world's except one that they missed, the earth and the human race had risen up from a few survivors but could find no sign of alien intelligence as the stars around there own were devoid of life until they met that scout ship thousand's of light years from home, the psychic now knew were they had come from and the alien council would be informed that there most feared enemy had survived.

reply to post by LABTECH767


The problem with any of this Galactic Federation ... erm ... stuff becomes quite glaring when one takes into account the sheer vastness of space in not only distance, but, time as well.

For any kind of Federation to have any semblance of cohesion which could be enforced, there'd need be Instant, Near Instant, or unimaginably fast travel, and even more instantaneous/faster communications.

Otherwise, regardless of any galactic treaty agreed on, anyone could do essentially anything to anyone anywhere, be done, finished, and gone before anyone ever even got the 911 call to the galactic Police.

Yes, it all needs be FTL.

If not, any real actuality of a Federation would need be bonded and enforced/enforceable Locally, wherever locally might be, where then anyone signatory to any agreements could still hang out outside of any zone or bubble of cooperation and Jolly Roger anything and everything distant enough away via communications lag that by the time anyone/anything came to sniff out the SOS, there'd be no sign.
Hell, even the pirates themselves could chirp up as "first responders", and pipe up that, "oops, there's nothing to see here".

Without FTL Communication, and FTL travel, it could be 1000 years or 10,000 years before anyone anywhere knows of anything spooky and treaty inviolate, and then just as long to get 'there', wherever 'there' might be to CSI the whole thing for proper finger pointing and accountability.

From what we currently know about the Universe and how it works, it's a bit dubious that there could be anything like a Star Wars, or Star Trek civilization bebopping around out in our Galaxy.

Perhaps some other galaxy, long time ago, and far far away , , but, we've thus far seen no indication that such a thing would be possible without getting really spooky in the Maths, and nothing by way of observational data.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


Which as far as WE know in linear terms is impossible, but we are infant's compared to any race that could achieve this, also we tend to think on our own basis of time perception but what if we lived for ten's of thousand's of year's, it would seem a lot less difficult to us then, And of course it is possible that there are dimensional shortcut's like some form of quantum tunnelling or wormhole travel though likely the majority of race's that had achieved this level of science would have better uses than wanton conquest and could find other solutions to whatever need they may have to travel to other world's.
Still what if one or two race's nearly as old as the universe had left there world's and expanded outward exponentially increasing in numbers as they collonized new world's only to one day come face to face with one another and find they were incompatible but craved the same environment's and world's, or given we do not have a true definition of alien motivation's and are inadvertantly anthropomorphising there mentality by projecting our own psychology onto them we truly do not have a basis for conjecture and yet we must make such conjecture or we will never know.

You know there is a theory that every occurance leaves slowly degrading ripples in the fabric of the extra verse which if we had a form of sensative array could be converted into interpretable data so maybe getting away with such an act would be more than problematic in the medium to long run but you have a very strong point.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


Excellent answer.

Even with FTL, a federation would not work.

Problem - space travel is very dangerous which makes it very expensive.

However communication can be achieved much more easily and different civilizations can learn from each other.

Expansion of aliens. Once they get to that level of advancement would it be inevitable or irrelevant?
Inevitable.
Need to procreate
Require a planet to base that on. But wait if they have that much energy in their control why would a little biology hold them back? Gods need worshipers. Perhaps they stop by here occasionally to play with the backwards yokels.
That much power leaves room for malcontents to move freely so no need for occupation forces.

Irrelevant.
No need for prodigy
Adapted to pure space inner or outer.
After expanding for several million years why would their descendents have the same biology let alone the same need to expand?
You don't explain quantum theory to a new born nor can you explain the quarfel to someone without any knowledge of it's properties.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++===
My apology's to the quarfel it's not supposed to be that complex after all it only exists in 113 dimensions taint complex after you can describe all of the dimensions and their properties.

time for shut eye

LABTECH767
reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

 

Which as far as WE know in linear terms is impossible, but we are infant's compared to any race that could achieve this, also we tend to think on our own basis of time perception but what if we lived for ten's of thousand's of year's, it would seem a lot less difficult to us then, And of course it is possible that there are dimensional shortcut's like some form of quantum tunnelling or wormhole travel though likely the majority of race's that had achieved this level of science would have better uses than wanton conquest and could find other solutions to whatever need they may have to travel to other world's.
Still what if one or two race's nearly as old as the universe had left there world's and expanded outward exponentially increasing in numbers as they collonized new world's only to one day come face to face with one another and find they were incompatible but craved the same environment's and world's, or given we do not have a true definition of alien motivation's and are inadvertantly anthropomorphising there mentality by projecting our own psychology onto them we truly do not have a basis for conjecture and yet we must make such conjecture or we will never know.

You know there is a theory that every occurance leaves slowly degrading ripples in the fabric of the extra verse which if we had a form of sensative array could be converted into interpretable data so maybe getting away with such an act would be more than problematic in the medium to long run but you have a very strong point.

edit on 15-2-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

Here ill go as far as saying im sure there is someway to transverse huge distances in space we already have some theories. As far as Far as conquest history tells us someone with advanced science comes in the indigenous population tends to disappear.But aside from that it strikes me as odd that people think because you have advanced technology you somehow became this nice benevolent being who wants to help every life form they meet. They very well could be hostile but the far greatest threat is they are so far advanced that they consider us just a lower life form. For example when you walk through a field are you careful not to step on ants and kill them. More than likely you just trudge across the grass not giving a second thought to the insects you kill along the way. As i said this is by far the biggest danger of meeting an advanced alien race if we arent even close to them in tech by at least a couple of hundred years we could be in real trouble.

I think the Dyson Sphere would be a waste of energy for a "conquering" intergalactic race of extraterrestrials. For example if you are going to move from galaxy to galaxy you would want to tap into a much more mobile energy source not something which is enormous and stationary. A Dyson sphere i think even from an extraterrestrial standpoint would be a uneconomical and unsustainable venture.

reply to post by dragonridr


What I find fairly amusing is that pretty much every Hollywood depiction of Aliens, regardless the Aliens, all the aliens depicted are essentially only a couple hundred years (by our standards) more advanced than we are.

Independence Day
Mars Attacks
The Day the Earth Stood Still (either version)
Falling Skies
Close Encounters
War of the Worlds
Battlefield LA
V
Earth Final Conflict
Alien Nation
Transformers
Oblivion
Man of Steel
Battleship
Skyline
Stargate
Prometheus

... any and all of the aliens depicted in these vary only a few hundred years in degrees of sophistication in advancement of technologies beyond our own.

They're all basically equivalent-tech.
Really!


Something that would be on an order of magnitude of just 10,000 years more advanced in technology relative our current rate of development in achieving progressive benchmarks at the rate we've been achieving them this last 200 years would likely be a civilization where artificial technology was indistinguishable from natural biology, and to us, would be the stuff of gods.

One singular distributed intelligence could be made up of a few hundred Quadrillion specks of nanoparticle smart dust and permeate every single everything on this entire planet to the point where it would know what everyone was thinking in real time, and could quite effectively remote-control anyone and everyone all at the same time if it wanted, to do anything, even planetary suicide of our entire species, at will without anyone being the wiser or capable of resisting or even knowing they're being controlled.

Fun stuff.

That's just 10,000 years more advanced.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


So in around 200 years are we goin to have interstellar fligh?

I am less optimistic about your difference in technology when our best efforts so far has been a bus in low orbit and 3 people trips to the moon for a week, it may look similar but it's far from it.

reply to post by JayinAR







I think the Crusades were fought over religion, the Ottoman empire war against Constantinople was religious, The Teutonic knights fought against Russia, the knights being a religious order, even to-day, Muslims are killing Christians and Jews

Indigent
reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

 

So in around 200 years are we goin to have interstellar fligh?

I am less optimistic about your difference in technology when our best efforts so far has been a bus in low orbit and 3 people trips to the moon for a week, it may look similar but it's far from it.

200 years yeah id say thats about right. You do know we already have the technology to get near light speed using ion engines like deep space 1.

reply to post by dragonridr


Oh really?

You are a science teacher or a fiction writer?

reply to post by dragonridr

200 years yeah id say thats about right. You do know we already have the technology to get near light speed using ion engines like deep space 1.

Deep space 1 16,200 km/h, light speed 1.07925285 × 10^9 km/h i see a slight difference in your calculations near light speed is more like 0.001% light speed, but its ok time will tell, its just 200 years and according to the expectation you people have we are gonna be immortals soon too

Indigent
reply to post by dragonridr

 

200 years yeah id say thats about right. You do know we already have the technology to get near light speed using ion engines like deep space 1.

Deep space 1 16,200 km/h, light speed 1.07925285 × 10^9 km/h i see a slight difference in your calculations near light speed is more like 0.001% light speed, but its ok time will tell, its just 200 years and according to the expectation you people have we are gonna be immortals soon too

That was a propellant limit the ultimate speed of an ion drive depends on how much propellant you carry in other words how long it can burn so far i believe it was NASA they have one thats been running for 5 years. Theoretically an ion engine with unlimited fuel could continue to accelerate forever. problem is as it ticks closer to the speed of light it uses more fuel. The limit on Deep space 1 was the amount of fuel it has not the drives capability. But there is no reason giving 5 year runs we couldnt get to 95 percent or better. But eventual it will top out under it because of restrictions in mas to thrust. However if we wanted we could visit another star in say 10 years with current tech albeit a close one like alpha centauri.

SLAYER69

How Advanced Alien Civilizations Would Conquer the Galaxy

Ancient extraterrestrial civilizations, millions of years older than humanity, would need enormous amounts of energy. By creating a swarm of satellites in a spherical shell, they could harness much of the power of their star.

Science fiction author Olaf Stapledon described spherical, energy-trapping alien structures in his 1937 novel "Star Maker":

"Not only was every solar system now surrounded by a gauze of light traps, which focused the escaping solar energy for intelligent use, so that the whole galaxy was dimmed, but many stars that were not suited to be suns were disintegrated, and rifled of their prodigious stores of sub-atomic energy."

Th Concept of Dyson Spheres is nothing new to many of us. I read this earlier and honestly didn't think anything new was presented, then it dawned on me, Since many well known scientists/theoretical physicists and respected mathematicians openly discuss the concept of Dyson Spheres. Are there ANY present programs/probes actively searching for either these spheres outright or for sings of the existence?

Seems that if this is a viable possibility how would they know if they are looking at one or something that is assumed to be a Rocky Giant? How would one even look? IF an Alien Civ has completely surrounded their Star or solar System would that even be possible to spot with our present level of Tech?


To be honest the first time I heard of these Spheres was in a Star Trek episode. It fascinated me. For the less than familiar with the concept.

I'd like to leave you with the following video.

The Fermi Paradox...

Talk by Stuart Armstrong, at the Oxford physics department

Abstract: The Fermi paradox is the contrast between the high estimate of the likelihood of extraterritorial civilizations, and the lack of visible evidence of them. But what sort of evidence should we expect to see? This is what exploratory engineering can tell us, giving us estimates of what kind of cosmic structures are plausibly constructable by advanced civilizations, and what traces they would leave. Based on our current knowledge, it seems that it would be easy for such a civilization to rapidly occupy vast swathes of the universe in a visible fashion. There are game-theoretic reasons to suppose that they would do so. This leads to a worsening of the Fermi paradox, reducing the likelihood of "advanced but unseen" civilizations, even in other galaxies.

edit on 8-2-2014 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

this is just total nonsense.you cannot defy the laws of economics or resources

where are they going to get the MATERIAL for this giant humongous sphere?

have you even bothered to calculate the volume?

not enough material if even if you crush jupiter and all the planets in the solar system and most of that is GAS GAS GAS.

seriously.