Accepting an afterlife as fact without belief in "God"

FlyersFan

logical7
If soul is energy then it should be detected.

200 years ago, doctors and scientists said that if germs existed they'd be able to see them. And since they couldn't see them, they thought they must not have existed. There is outside evidence that the soul is energy ... we don't have direct evidence because we dont have the ability to see it yet. But the outside evidence points in that direction ... (read on)

"Everything is energy and that's all there is to it. Match the frequency of the reality you want and you cannot help but get that reality. It can be no other way. This is not philosophy. This is physics" Albert Einstein

Physics Forum - The Frequency of the human body
Humans have a vibration frequency while alive. After death, the frequency departs. We know that energy doesn't die. Therefore, the energy is the soul and it leaves the dead body.

Everything in Life is a Vibration

The Power of Personal Vibration

Word Press - Your Vibration is The Divine Signature on Your Soul

The higher your vibration the more light you hold, the faster your light particles vibrate, the higher your consciousness and the stronger you are connected to your soul and God self.

When your vibration is low, your light particles are vibrating slowly and become condensed. Your energy literally feels heavy because you are not in alignment with your soul or divine self and are mostly operating from your lower self or ego.

Distorted beliefs, fear, anger, resentment, blame, guilt, jealousy, judgment, shame, addiction, unforgiveness, conditional love, lack of self worth, greed, separation consciousness and poor health keep you in very dense low vibrating energy.

And there is no proof that the soul has weight ..

Snopes - Soul has Weight

edit on 2/12/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

You presented a lot of pseudoscience there!!!

Naming something one can't detect( soul ) as energy is misleading as then one also starts assuming all the properties of energy for it.

Yes the universe is just energy in different states.
Assuming soul to be a part of the universe is just that.. An assumption.

I am not asking you to prove you are correct. I am just pointing places where assumptions are made.

The simple truth is that we don't know the nature of soul and conciousness.

logical7
You presented a lot of pseudoscience there!!!

Dude .... Einstein is NOT pseudoscience. It's hysterical that you'd say that.

"Everything is energy and that's all there is to it. Match the frequency of the reality you want and you cannot help but get that reality. It can be no other way. This is not philosophy. This is physics" Albert Einstein

FlyersFan

logical7
You presented a lot of pseudoscience there!!!

Dude .... Einstein is NOT pseudoscience. It's hysterical that you'd say that.

"Everything is energy and that's all there is to it. Match the frequency of the reality you want and you cannot help but get that reality. It can be no other way. This is not philosophy. This is physics" Albert Einstein

Read my reply

Yes the universe is just energy in different states. 
Assuming soul to be a part of the universe is just that.. An assumption. 

So I agree with Einstein but how you assume that he also meant soul when he said "everything"

Aren't you assuming that soul is also created in this universe after the big bang?

What you are presenting are analogies to explain soul, reincarnation etc.

Hindus say that a person's soul changes bodies like we change clothes. That's an analogy not a scientific proof for reincarnation.

Same goes when you say soul is energy that can't be destroyed etc.

I can give you a very scientific looking analogy for Trinity.

The divine oneness is like water. At a certain temperature and pressure water exists as solid, liquid and gas simultaneously. That's called triple point. The same is with Trinity.

Is the above a scientific proof or an analogy?

reply to post by logical7

Assuming soul to be a part of the universe is just that.. An assumption.

You are suggesting, then, that the 'soul' is NOT "part of the universe"? Seriously? What the hell do you think it "is", then?
Imaginary? Fiction? An 'idea' only? Then you would have to claim you are a "materialist" - which doesn't jive with being a believer in "revelation."

wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

Assuming soul to be a part of the universe is just that.. An assumption.

You are suggesting, then, that the 'soul' is NOT "part of the universe"? Seriously? What the hell do you think it "is", then?
Imaginary? Fiction? An 'idea' only? Then you would have to claim you are a "materialist" - which doesn't jive with being a believer in "revelation."

Yes. Its not a part.

You and more assumptions about me!!!!!

Do you think there can't be anything outside or before the universe?

It's not my thoughts that are limited to material universe. I am not trying to explain afterlife using material sciences.

Thats a product of being raised in material oriented and observation based reality believing culture.

I don't know what a soul is, I however notice a lot of problems if its assumed to be a part of Universe.

reply to post by logical7


Okay, you know what??

Here is what it is:
We do not effectively communicate with each other. Perhaps it is a language barrier, but there is certainly a complete inability to 'hear' me, and/or a stubborn refusal to acknowledge that your 'picture' of "my place" is based on hype and exaggeration.

You've been trashing the West since you arrived here on ATS. I have repeatedly explained to you the reality of how it is in "my place," but you simply don't listen. You don't adjust your bias to reflect what you've learned from people who actually LIVE here...
you simply keep blaming a 'stereotype' and painting our entire nation as a bunch of drunken heathens.

You know what I was just doing? I was JUST NOW, outside, talking to a police officer who came to my house AT MY REQUEST to discuss with her some of my concerns with this neighborhood...with my NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS, and their unstable, suspicious activities which include intermittent gunfire and comings and goings at all hours of the day and night. We CARE. We don't WANT that sort of lawless, ignorant, criminal element - can you not fathom that?

YES - there is "ghetto behavior" in the USA, in the ghettos. Drugs, rape, homicide, robbery, carjacking, truancy, etc....
it GENERALLY stays in the ghetto - when it starts oozing into the nice, quiet, respectable neighborhoods WE CALL THE POLICE.

It's a partnership between police and the community where I live - not everywhere in the US, but in my small city, yes.

Yet you persist in condemning everyone who is not Muslim or in "your place."

Will those next door adults get 'karma' at some point, and be held accountable for their actions and the harm they're doing? Yes, I'm certain they will.

As for what the soul "is" - you saying it's not "part" of the universe is completely bizarre, and makes you look like you have a learning disorder. I was raised with religion, pal. I was taught morals. As I got older and educated, I realized that organized Abrahamic religions are based on very sketchy, questionable sources, and that they have the potential to escalate disagreement into slaughter and hatred.

Thats a product of being raised in material oriented and observation based reality believing culture.

I don't know what a soul is, I however notice a lot of problems if its assumed to be a part of Universe.

What?

See, this makes no sense. It's word salad. We, and everything seen and unseen are PART of the universe. Every one of us here who give actual thoughts and participate in lucid discussions is a REAL PERSON. With a SOUL. We are PART of the universe.Unless, of course, YOU are a figment of my imagination or a paid shill, YOU and YOUR SOUL are also part of the universe. The filthy allegations that you continue to drape all over 'the West' WILL catch up with you, and that will be fine with me. Your logic is supremely faulty - it is as unreal as Ken Ham the Young Earth Creationist's assertion that the Earth is 6,000 years old.

I doubt you even knew about the 'debate' between him and Bill Nye, an award-winning "Science Guy," but if you'd watch it, you'd see a nearly charicature example of extreme fundamentalists who take NOTHING but the Bible as 'evidence'.

Anyway, it is clear that there is no hope to continue trying with you. I've felt that for months now - but kept trying, in the interest of open communication and mutual 'learning' about each other. I give up.

There is evidence and it's very possible that there is an afterlife without a "God."
Your weird logic and grasping for 'refutations' makes me tired. Your religion makes me nervous. And your ignorant ranting against the West makes me sick.

Way to go.....a total breakdown in 'peace talks', compliments of logical7, for the benefit of all of us who are free-thinkers. Thanks for that; for providing irrefutable evidence that you have no intention of 'building a bridge'. If we were in a meeting I would have walked out by now. Your ideas are preposterous - your sense of 'self' is warped, and your perception of "reality" is beyond neurotic.

Souls are our very essence. They are real. They are part of the universe.
And my discussion with you is over.

Every part of the world has its problems, not just the West. I find it extremely ignorant to imply that the West is somehow the source of all bad things when every single part of the world has the same if not more severe problems. No, the West isn't perfect, far from it, but it's no different than any other part of the world. Unless of course you think beheading people and having suicide bombers everywhere in the Middle East is somehow "better".

reply to post by wildtimes


LOL!!!!
Its you who thinks that I think only bad of the West.
I have many school and college friends who are right now in US. I myself got close enough to decide to come to your place for studies.

My best friend is an atheist who right now is in USA too.

Peace talks??!!! Are we nations to do that?

You think I have a learning disability!!

I am not here to confirm your views or praise you. I do see that you do not like your ideas to be questioned or ridiculed .

You never tried to answer basic questions about afterlife.

How it all got set up the way you believe it is?

Did soul got formed after big bang? If yes then how?
Did it come into existence when considerably evolved animals came?

Well if you just want replies from people who agree with your OP then so be it.
I however welcome you on my threads to disagree with me!

reply to post by logical7

I have many school and college friends who are right now in US. I myself got close enough to decide to come to your place for studies.

But you didn't. And apparently your friends who are here have not swayed your rhetoric condemning the West/US.

My best friend is an atheist who right now is in USA too.

Yeah? And do you argue with your college and school friends like you do with me?

Peace talks??!!! Are we nations to do that?

WE ARE INDIVIDUALS to do that.
But you don't want any part of it.

Nations are made up of individuals. You have totally derailed this thread -

it is about an afterlife being a reality regardless of an "Omniscient Omnipresent Judgmental Vengeful God-person".

I don't know how the universe was formed; I don't know if there's a "God/Creator". I have always said that.
Are your 'friends' aware of how you talk on this board?

You know what, don't even answer that. It makes me doubly nervous.

reply to post by wildtimes


I don't think I have derailed you thread.
I am simply stating that afterlife/karma are not possible without a Creator making it that way. Very much on topic I guess!!!

I am actually surprised that you cannot imagine that something can be there before or outside the universe!!

Big Bang was a very precisely controlled explosion. That suggests an intelligence.

You are suggesting an idea that a balance got established that even takes into account the moral behavior but without any higher intelligence's involvement so it's on you to provide proof for it.
How did universe /soul get their moral standards to be able to dispence karma?

reply to post by logical7

I am simply stating that afterlife/karma are not possible without a Creator making it that way. Very much on topic I guess!!!

Fine. That is what you are stating. It needn't include your assaults on my character or slander of my opinions.

I completely disagree with what you are "stating"... unless you qualify it as YOUR OPINION. Afterlife/karma IS BELIEVED by the Buddhists (among others), and their arguments are every bit as valid as yours (more so, actually). You think EVERYONE is wrong except you, so there's really no point in furthering this 'non-conversation.'

You derailed the thread when you started talking about the "universe" as something other than ALL INCLUSIVE, which is ridiculous.

Look, you believe Muhammed's account - that is your choice. I do not. That is my choice. So - is your soul part of the "saved", and mine is not? And how do you KNOW? You don't know. Because you haven't tried to think for yourself beyond what he "revealed" (presumably out of fear for your own survival - because as an apostate your life is in very real danger - from other human beings who insist you agree to their doctrines, or die. Either that, or as I've gathered and asked before, you would be pissed off if 'infidels' are also "saved", when your opinion is that "they don't deserve").

All Muhammed did is get a bunch of people to believe him (sycophants)....by claiming God told him THROUGH SOMEONE ELSE - not even directly. A feat which any person at any time might do. Plus, he had a really big sword.

reply to post by logical7

I am actually surprised that you cannot imagine that something can be there before or outside the universe!!

What is your definition of "the universe", then?

In my mind it is the Totality - it includes everything, seen and unseen - it is not just physical. Maybe you think of the 'universe' differently - that it is 'space and objects, matter and energy only' - which makes your viewpoint again "materialist."

Big Bang was a very precisely controlled explosion. That suggests an intelligence.

It suggests that something caused a precisely controlled explosion. For all we know, what WE SEE of the universe was the emanation of a black hole exploding in a different dimension, like through a wormhole. The black hole sucked in enough stuff to make a new 'universe' - and our physical selves are part of that 'new universe'. A process that may have been happening since eternity.

I do understand the difficulty of grasping the idea of "but who made the universe?" being unnecessary, even irrelevant. We DO exist, so we are part of the universe. Whatever preceded the Big Bang is still unknown. In fact, we are incapable of "knowing" it.

THAT is, in my opinion, "God" - the thing we can't understand or describe.

logical7
Big Bang was a very precisely controlled explosion. That suggests an intelligence.

1 - The Big Bang was CHAOS .. not a 'very precisely controlled explosion'.
2 - The fact that it was CHAOS doesn't suggest intelligence, but it also doesn't rule it out either.

Northwestern University Physicist - Big Bang was CHAOS

Seven years ago Northwestern University physicist Adilson E. Motter conjectured that the expansion of the universe at the time of the big bang was highly chaotic. Now he and a colleague have proven it using rigorous mathematical arguments.

The study, published by the journal Communications in Mathematical Physics, reports not only that chaos is absolute but also the mathematical tools that can be used to detect it. When applied to the most accepted model for the evolution of the universe, these tools demonstrate that the early universe was chaotic.

Some general thoughts not based on what anyone has specifically said:

I suspect it is highly likely that once we enter what we call the afterlife we will be no more enlightened there than here. Other than the experience of "death" as something new and needing to deal with the fact we are still "alive," particularly if we never entertained such a belief or actively railed against it, would be an interesting thing to get through (and watch), but other than proving the "Universe is greater than we suppose" it doesn't do much to answer the questions we have.

For religious people it would tend to confirm their bias. After all, they survived, and if they managed to talk themselves into seeing Jesus or [insert name of your favorite deity here] you'd have more "evidence." Those people would tend to congregate together, telling each other how right they were, and hopefully they would gain something before their next trip to earth, but we don't know.

The idea that a "God" is required here to make it all work is still not necessary. Some people here claim we will still be controlled, but perhaps that doesn't mean by anything conscious. An electron is "controlled" by the proton it orbits, but few would claim that this control is conscious or intentional. It may be simply the way things are put together, and that this scheme is in place because of evolution. In other words, evolution doesn't just stop at the afterlife boundary. And here you can easily invoke the Anthropic Principle. The Universe is the way it is because if it weren't, we wouldn't be around to observe it. God still isn't necessary and invoking a "god" is a bit of a cop out because the explanation stops right there.

Now, as a typical American I highly resent anyone telling me what to do. Add reincarnation into this mix and we reach a conundrum fairly quickly. I do not like the system, BUT I'm very much afraid I won't have the choice, and this begs so many questions it's difficult to know where to begin.

It COULD be that we are avatars for a greater consciousness. This idea is very common in New Age thinking. Some sort of "Greater Self" chooses to reincarnate "aspects" of itself to essentially "learn stuff" on Earth. I persist in thinking of this Greater Self as a teenager living in his Mom's basement playing video games with ME as the avatar that gets beaten up, killed, and thrown around a lot, killing other "Bad Guys" in the process to rack up points to get to the next level. This idea would explain a lot, actually, though of course I don't like it very much.

I have been unable to verify this next idea, but it is that the teachings of Jesus originally addressed this whole issue and suggested that following his teachings allowed you a way out of this continual reincarnation mess we're embroiled in and that he had a way to get you out of it. This teaching was suppressed, especially during the Council of Nicea, in favor of using Christianity to further to control-goals of the Roman Empire under Constantine. I haven't found a single Biblical phrase that supports this, including in some of the Gnostic gospels, but it bears further study.

In any case, there is no necessity I can see to invoke "God" to explain any of this. It remains an easy out for those who really don't want to explore the issue in depth.

reply to post by schuyler

The Universe is the way it is because if it weren't, we wouldn't be around to observe it. God still isn't necessary and invoking a "god" is a bit of a cop out because the explanation stops right there.

Yes. Quite.

Now, as a typical American I highly resent anyone telling me what to do. Add reincarnation into this mix and we reach a conundrum fairly quickly. I do not like the system, BUT I'm very much afraid I won't have the choice, and this begs so many questions it's difficult to know where to begin.

Very consicely stated for such a huge 'what-if'. Thanks...
Hope to learn more about your thoughts.

Techinally if all an afterlife is is an extension of the consciousness of the main electrical source then it must mean like muscle memory and memory foam even energy has memory and if thats true then it must be connected to a god.

reply to post by metalholic

...and if thats true then it must be connected to a god.

Why?