Jerusalem as the Harlot of Revelation

reply to post by ElohimJD


Everything you stated in your post is good and true, that is why I gave you a star, ElhoimJD.

The law is perfect. It came from Jehovah God, so it cannot be otherwise. The law is also impossible for any human born* in sin to keep. Thus the law revealed to mankind his gross imperfection, and inability to be righteous by works. As you stated, Jesus, as the son of God, and not a descendant of Adam, was born perfect, and he also was able to keep the law to perfection. That is why scripture states:

(Hebrews 4:15) 15 For we have as high priest, not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin.

And while he was on earth he was bound to the law, as were all of God's chosen people. And as he himself stated, he came, not to change or destroy, but to fulfill the law. And he did fulfill it.

When he fulfilled the law, it was done away with. There was no longer a need for it. A Christian moved from trying to gain a righteous standing by works of the law, to being declared righteous based on his faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice:

(Galatians 2:15-17) . . .We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners from the nations, 16 knowing as we do that a man is declared righteous, not due to works of law, but only through faith toward Christ Jesus, even we have put our faith in Christ Jesus, that we may be declared righteous due to faith toward Christ, and not due to works of law, because due to works of law no flesh will be declared righteous. 17 Now if we, in seeking to be declared righteous by means of Christ, have also ourselves been found sinners, is Christ in reality sin’s minister? May that never happen!


Now learn this lesson. The law given to Moses by means of angels was a tutor for the nation of Israel that lead it and guided it and protected it until the revealing of the Messiah. When the Messiah arrived, something much greater than the law was here. And as the law had fulfilled its purpose, and it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ, there was no longer need for it. It was done away with, when Jesus was nailed to the torture stake and put to death:

(Galatians 3:24, 25) . . .Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. 25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor.


As the faith, true faith, had arrived, the Christian was no longer bound under law.

True, there are people today who try to prove their righteousness by works of the law, thinking that they can somehow do it. But they miss the purpose of God's great mercy and love.

In any event those who try to fulfill the law, must keep them all. Because if you transgress against one of the laws, you transgress against them all:

(James 2:10) . . .For whoever observes all the Law but makes a false step in one point, he has become an offender against them all.


If a person really thought he was still under the law to the nation of Israel that God rejected when they put his son to death, then where are you animal sacrifices you must present to the priest? Where in fact is the temple to burn animal sacrifices to Jehovah God?

Jehovah let it be destroyed in 70 C. E. and it was never rebuilt. That is because the animal sacrifice was merely a symbolic representation of Jesus' shed blood.

Jesus does not need to die more than once. His shed blood pays for all the sins of everyone who exercises faith in him, once and for all time:

(Hebrews 7:27, 28) 27 He does not need daily, as those high priests do, to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins and then for those of the people: (for this he did once for all time when he offered himself up 28 for the Law appoints men high priests having weakness, but the word of the sworn oath that came after the Law appoints a Son, who is perfected forever.


Out of everything that was given to Moses in Jehovah's perfect law, the only things that need to be kept are the following:

(Acts 15:28, 29) 28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things, 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!”


And if you notice, all of the aforementioned things were not only requirements in the law of Moses. But were also laws that needed to be kept before the nation of Israel even came into existence. For example, when Noah came out of the ark, long before Moses was born, Jehovah forbade the use of blood. When Potifer's wife tried to get Joseph to commit adultery with her, he knew it was a sin against God.


A Christian is no longer bound under the law that Jesus fulfilled and was done away with. He is now bound under the law of Christ:

(Galatians 6:2) . . .Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ.


(John 13:34, 35) . . .I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU, that YOU also love one another. 35 By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.”

reply to post by iSomeone

So she is not a political entity.

The two things can not be separated in the world in which Revelation was written.
They did things politically in the belief that their gods ordained it.
In John's mind this form of idolatry was the epitome of evil, especially because it was witnessed in its visible results, the destruction and crushing of civilizations for the purpose of looting them as a means to wealth for the victors, to be paraded before the gods at their temples in Rome in triumph.
John did not want Christians to be participants in this, even if it was only in the form of buying meat in the markets that had been offered to idols.

reply to post by jmdewey60


That doesn't really address any of the facts stated in the post. You are correct, all you said is good and true. But it still doesn't negate the facts presented in the post your responded to.

reply to post by iSomeone

The law is perfect. It came from Jehovah God, so it cannot be otherwise. The law is also impossible for any human born* in sin to keep. Thus the law revealed to mankind his gross imperfection, and inability to be righteous by works. As you stated, Jesus, as the son of God, and not a descendant of Adam, was born perfect, and he also was able to keep the law to perfection. That is why scripture states:

(Hebrews 4:15) 15 For we have as high priest, not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin.

There is hypothetically a fundamental spiritual law that exists, but what we have is the old written Mosaic Law, which Jesus pointed out is far from perfect.
Though the old written Mosaic Law may be impossible to gain true righteousness by its mere keeping by the letter, Jesus was proof that the fundamental spiritual law could be kept to righteousness.
Mankind's gross unrighteousness by those who followed the letter of the old written Mosaic Law (those who killed Jesus) showed its insufficiency at making its followers righteous.
The Gospel says that Adam was the son of God, and that Jesus was descended from Adam.
Jesus was born in the same human form as us but had the advantage of having as a person existing previously in heaven in the presence of God.

And while he was on earth he was bound to the law, as were all of God's chosen people. And as he himself stated, he came, not to change or destroy, but to fulfill the law. And he did fulfill it.

Jesus was a Jew, as befitting the son of David, and did those things that culturally demonstrated that fact, but was not otherwise obligated to be morally bound to the law, since being god himself, he was above it.
Jesus did not obligate his disciples to following the old written Mosaic Law, but did follow certain cultural norms like the Passover, since it had an important connection to his own mission and message.
There were come correspondence between the old written Mosaic Law, and the fundamental spiritual law that Jesus pointed out.
But that does not endorse the entire old written Mosaic Law.

When he fulfilled the law, it was done away with. There was no longer a need for it. A Christian moved from trying to gain a righteous standing by works of the law, to being declared righteous based on his faith in Jesus' ransom sacrifice:

Jesus fulfilled the prophecy found in the law, that he would come. Jesus did not come to somehow fulfill all the commandments in it, either for himself, or for others.
The old written Mosaic Law did not have to be "done away with".
What was done away with is the evil nature of it in how it curses everyone, so what was done away with is the fear mongering practice to be replaced by the teaching of love and acceptance.
Our redemption is the being freed from the curses of the law, based on Jesus himself being accursed according to the law but being vindicated by god in his being resurrected.
People do not become righteous by declaration.
People become righteous by following the same spirit from God that gives them their faith in Jesus to start with.

17 Now if we, in seeking to be declared righteous by means of Christ, have also ourselves been found sinners, is Christ in reality sin’s minister? May that never happen!

If righteousness was declared instantaneously as soon as we believed, then there wouldn't be a "seeking to be declared righteous by means of Christ". This is talking about a leading in the believer's life, after Jesus, following him, and he doesn't lead us into sin.

reply to post by iSomeone

And as the law had fulfilled its purpose, and it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ, there was no longer need for it. It was done away with, when Jesus was nailed to the torture stake and put to death:

(Galatians 3:24, 25) . . .Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. 25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor.

Jesus dying did not do away with the law, as if Jesus was fulfilling some hypothetical principle that a sacrificial animal had to be killed in order to appease a blood-thirsty god.
What Paul was saying is that the old written Mosaic Law was inferior, only being a thing administered by low level celestial entities.
Now we have a superior system administered by someone who kept it and proved its efficacy.
Jesus' system of righteousness is now higher than that the written Mosaic Law, with a superior administrator to act as intermediary between God and man, transmitting God's spirit through himself from God and to us to fill us with the ability to know God;s will for us as individuals to become truly righteous in a meaningful way.

the common denominator in all of that is "the SINagogue" of satan.
who was satan? satan was the accuser and adversary of humans.
look up sin, the moon god. it's a babylonian based system. the worship of
the god who viewed humans as his adversary, who's temples were
disguised as places of worship and festooned with the crescent moon.
who despised human females because they created more humans. who
made laws in various religions all over the world, condemning women
to being of less worth than the family dog. who decreed the nerfing of
the human genome so that women would suffer in child birth, who threatened
everyone with eternal torture if they didn't do exactly what he said, who
demanded blood sacrifices all over the planet and who owned the planet
like a piece of real estate and tried to give it to jesus in exchange for jesus'
servitude and to stop jesus from fulfilling his obligatory and final blood sacrifice.
that event was supposed to end blood sacrifices.

the good guy in the old testament is easy to pick out. he's the guy that said
go forth and be fruitful and multiply. and the bad guy said, eeek, they are
multiplying on my planet, i call upon the divine right as owner of the planet
earth, that human dna be downgraded -- immediately if not sooner. he decreed
the flood. whereas the good guy, warned noah and his kin.

just follow the cookie crumb trail. there's 3 gods in the old testament, none of which is
the holy spirit. the holy spirit is barely given a passing mention until the new testament.
one of the old testament gods is enlil, the sumerian god who owned the planet.
enlil is the biblical equivalent of el, bel, baal, and al'lah.
he despises humans and particularly female humans because they create more humans.
he outlawed the natural function of the creator's creation. in other words, he
despises human reproduction and anything related to it, so women should be hidden
and men should be punished for their natural procreative attraction to women.

jesus is the good guy in the old testament. he's the one who created humans, created
the adam before humans, created and replenished life on the planet, and came to rescue life on the planet
more than once. enlil, is about to lose control of the ownership of the planet. he knows this.
his plan is to decimate it before his property title is handed over to jesus. jesus is the sumerian
enki. the rcc is an enlil-ite organization pretending to be an enki organization. the fish miter hat and
the other various sumerian trappings, predate babylon by a large margin, and are not an indicator of
anti christianity, but evidence of the facade erected to depict themselves as the priesthood of enki.

just remember, the god of this world is not jesus until the title changes hands. until then, it's owned
by the god of sin, enlil, the moon god, who has been punishing humans for thousands of years for the
crime of being human. that is the epitome of the accuser.

jmdewey60
reply to post by iSomeone

 

And as the law had fulfilled its purpose, and it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ, there was no longer need for it. It was done away with, when Jesus was nailed to the torture stake and put to death:

(Galatians 3:24, 25) . . .Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. 25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor.

Jesus dying did not do away with the law, as if Jesus was fulfilling some hypothetical principle that a sacrificial animal had to be killed in order to appease a blood-thirsty god.
What Paul was saying is that the old written Mosaic Law was inferior, only being a thing administered by low level celestial entities.
Now we have a superior system administered by someone who kept it and proved its efficacy.
Jesus' system of righteousness is now higher than that the written Mosaic Law, with a superior administrator to act as intermediary between God and man, transmitting God's spirit through himself from God and to us to fill us with the ability to know God;s will for us as individuals to become truly righteous in a meaningful way.

edit on 10-4-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

(Galatians 3:24, 25) . . .Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. 25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor.

reply to post by iSomeone

(Galatians 3:24, 25) . . .Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. 25 But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor.

Paul is not talking about a mere intellectual assent to the truth.
Even the demons admitted that Jesus was the Messiah.
Paul is using that term, Faith, in an innovative way, to mean the thing that serves the role in the new covenant that the Law did in the old covenant.
In other places he calls it the law of faith, and it is a way of life by the spirit in accordance with the righteousness of God.

jesus warned repeatedly, that the situtation for humans was even worse than we suspected - that the law was such that even thinking about doing something wrong was the equivalent of doing it, UNDER THE LAW, which is the accuser of humankind. paul even says as much several times - the law is the accuser. why? not because it is impossible to keep for humans but because it was made to be impossible for humans to keep, deliberately. the enemy of god's creation is the accuser of humankind. these are not the same individual.

reply to post by undo

jesus warned repeatedly, that the situtation for humans was even worse than we suspected . . .

I don't think that was what he meant.
Jesus admitted to a human element in the making of the Law.
He said "Moses allowed . . ."
And "You have heard it said . . ."

jmdewey60
Paul is using that term, Faith, in an innovative way

The "Roman" Shaul Paulus used many dirty tricks. I'd pay well for his skin. Bible is useless without the bastard. May he pay close attention to the Sun as it sets. May his hear hearken to the spirit of the trees.

jmdewey60
reply to post by undo

 

jesus warned repeatedly, that the situtation for humans was even worse than we suspected . . .

I don't think that was what he meant.
Jesus admitted to a human element in the making of the Law.
He said "Moses allowed . . ."
And "You have heard it said . . ."

read it again. even thinking it, is the equivalent of doing it, under the law. why was jesus necessary? because the god of this world was condemning everyone, with the law.

for anyone keeping tabs on sumerian writings--

the god of earth is not the same as the god of this world. god of earth is a reference to the creative template of clay and dirt. the egyptian atem/atum is a big clue. atum was the creator god and the template for the adam race. it derives from the first king on the sumerian kings list -- alulim. adam means red, like clay, the substance from which life is templated. god of earth means god(s) of creation, et.al, atum/adam/alulim/elohim (all the same word, who the adam race were named after)

the god of this world is a reference to the bad guy, not the creator. yet the creator and the accuser are depicted as one and the same in the old testament. or, rather we assume they are one and the same while reading it. but there are literally
hundreds of clues that these are not the same gods. one is a loving creator who has to keep rescuing his creation on this planet, from the god of this world. and the other is almost the exact opposite.

think about the implications. why is there a "god of this world"? it's his planet. how'd that happen? how in the heck did satan end up as the owner of the planet? i thought he was deprived of his authority during that ancient war in heaven. apparently not. this planet must've been his homebase, and we, unfortunately, are on it. perhaps our ancient ancestors were created on it before he went wiggy and now we're stuck on his planet with his racist, human hating, life-destroying, ways. yet another reason why jesus was necessary. why should the creator have to go to such lengths to rescue his creation? why did jesus say he didn't bring accusations against the god of this world?

ask yourself the questions you've been avoiding and then find the answers in the text.

reply to post by undo

read it again. even thinking it, is the equivalent of doing it, under the law. why was jesus necessary? because the god of this world was condemning everyone, with the law.

I hope you don't mean this literally.
I think it is all metaphorical, these gods.
Paul said, "Gods, there are many", but he didn't mean there were these spiritual entities going around acting like gods, but people seeing things as gods, where they pay homage to them as if they were gods.
Condemnation comes from certain people judging others.
That is not a good thing and why the New Testament says to carry each other's burdens, which means to forgive them their faults because that is what God does for us.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim

The "Roman" Shaul Paulus used many dirty tricks.

That was something said by the anonymous writer of Acts a hundred years after the fact, and never anything Paul ever said himself, so there may not be anything to the claim.
Paul used rhetoric that was common for his period but is difficult to readers today not familiar with what that mode of communicating was all about.

jmdewey60
which means to forgive them their faults because that is what God does for us.

exactly. now notice in the old testament that we were put in a garden with the supposedly slyest and most intelligent and beautiful creation in the history of creation. then condemned to pain and suffering and slavery for being fooled by this super human creation. well according to paul, only eve was fooled by the serpent. adam knew what he was doing and did it anyway. at this juncture, paul uses this as an excuse to defame women as spreaders of the gospel, thusly negating 50% of the christian population from having a missionary voice in the wider population. the exact opposite of what jesus taught and did by example, where women were concerned. and this carried over into the holy roman church, and further into the protestant churches. half of the body of christ literally had a gag order put on it.

something was seriously wrong there. paul was struggling with eradicating the synangogue of satan theology from his world view. what was the synagogue of satan? people get completely side tracked into discussing the moral implications and never ask the wider question of what is the SINagogue of satan.

Krazysh0t

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by Belcastro

 

S&F for you my friend. Once your eyes are open....and you see the train wreck that is Israel....you can't close them again.

"Assuredly I say to you, that some of you standing right here before me will not taste death before I come into my kingdom."

Revelations is all about the Jews of that time and the horrors that would happen to them at the hands of the Romans. But Jesus said he would avenge the Jews and destroy "whoever" put them through tribulation. Where is Rome again? Oh....right....destroyed just like he said.

That depends on which Roman Empire you are talking about. The Eastern Roman Empire continued to rule for another 1000 years after the Western one fell, it was called Byzantium.

I'm well aware of that.....not well aware of your point though....Is the Byzantinian Empire still around? No...

jmdewey60
reply to post by Maigret

 

If you think this is the best there is, then you have no idea of power of God or of the spiritual perfection of the times to come, my friend!

You may be missing how this church that you despise is full of really good people, and how that didn't happen by accident.
I think you may be not appreciating the power of God, and are looking for some other mythical manifestation of righteousness, like how to pronounce the name of Jesus in Aramaic, something completely useless like that.

edit on 10-4-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Do not put words in my mouth, or even think that I despise anyone!

I believe in the power of God and the good inherent in all people; even those that appear 'bad'.

I speak out against LIES - and we both know who is the biggest liar of all.

reply to post by Belcastro


Who was the harlot in the book of revelation? Revelation says the harlot is Babylon (Revelation 17:5)

It says at near the end of revelation:

Revelation 17:18
The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.

So what ever happened to "Babylon"?

Wikipedia
The remains of the city are found in present-day Hillah, Babil Governorate, Iraq, about 85 kilometres (53 mi) south of Baghdad. All that remains of the original ancient famed city of Babylon today is a large mound, or tell, of broken mud-brick buildings and debris in the fertile Mesopotamian plain between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

iSomeone ....

A Christian is no longer bound under the law

Jesus spoke of a day when he will reject those who go to him saying ''Lord, Lord'' (i.e Christians) for the sole reason that they were ''lawless''.