Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

originally posted by: RedCairo
'cause you're a weirdo Kev.

I mean that in the nicest way.

;-)

Takes one to know one, so no offense taken.

The truth is, that not one human who has ever lived has
become 'enlightened' --- the whole thing is snake oil;
just another form of the control loop 'carrot' of
'eternal life in heaven'.

Now sure.. there have been some amazing folks..
one of the 5 or so conflated sub-elements of
'Buddha' or Rummi or some of the early Yogins..
but amazing 'enlightened'.

'Enlightened' is just as nebulous and unobtainable
as any of the other carrots on stick put in front of
the human race, in order to control them.

Now, are there 'spiritual realities' --- sure.. but
nothing like you read about..you can only see
bits of what's true once you stop chugging the
communal snake oil... and then only bits.

That's my experience anyway.

Now seeing that you've been had --- that's the
first step that so few are willing to take ---
and that step --- seeing that humans have
been had --- THAT would be a REAL 'shift'
or 'global initiation'.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

"Been had..."

Well, I have been been had. It's your assertion we all have been... had, that is.

I still love your (relatively) novel take on this reality we seem to share... right or wrong, or more likely, both and more in a region not so analog.

So what a perfect control mechanism... being against common beliefs and cultural benchmarks casts one out of the mainstream and keeps one from having any real effect on the masses... usually.

It IS tough, though, to drift through the sea of existence without any anchors or ports-o-call... even IF you (and others) have identified the malady (in this metaphorical case, the fake ocean hiding real sharks) then the cure remains elusive.

As in, using a disease instead of water metaphor, sure, saying one has ebola starts the process of problem solving... but knowing why one's body is deconstructing is only part of the battle... what is the cure, doctor, when the malady, clinic and world holding it all is a construct made by the germs in the first place?

a reply to: Baddogma

I just want to say, Baddogma, is this is one of the best ways I've ever read it put. As to the answer, I'm sure KPB has better suggestions than I, and after all, that's who you asked.

But I will say for my own part,though I don't have ebola, I definitely have something. LOL. Please no suggestions, guesses or jokes. I assure you I'm the butt of enough of them already.

I take the medicine the germ-created situational reality has to offer, as since they created it, and love being the ones with all the answers, which is why they created such a miasma for us to be adrift within, primarily (lots of ego afloat here, while telling the masses their egos are the problem), and then hope for the best. I never give up on the "natural world," though it's just as created, answers may hide there. Those creators/controllers like to make you search through their puzzle/maze, and sometimes the answers are hidden. They will extract a price, however. Even if what they construct in your mind is wholly untrue or true, they will extract that price from your ethics, no matter what. It's why they've made you sick in any way, and sent you searching for the cure, IMHO.

Take care. And I hope KPB has some sage advice for us all.
tetra

As a sort of hilarious irony, in a fishbowl sort of way, this thread's devolution proved its topic.

The secret to control systems is, perhaps, not about who is most subtle or who is most informed, who is most secret or who is most technologically advanced, but rather, about who has the most available time on their hands.

Eventually one or more parties just dog it to exhaustion and everyone else gives up. The players take over the existing systems begun by and originally maintained by 'the people' who just don't want to put in the required time and focus it would take to try and track it all, let alone call the players on everything. At that point it becomes more the game of the players, and all participation is reframed toward and/or for the new context/players.

And thousands of years -- er, hundreds of pages -- later, nobody remembers what things were originally about anyway. The only story passed down is a title, a sentence, a few excerpts, and nobody but archivists with a lot of reading time would see history, let alone understand it.

RC

originally posted by: RedCairo
As a sort of hilarious irony, in a fishbowl sort of way, this thread's devolution proved its topic.

The secret to control systems is, perhaps, not about who is most subtle or who is most informed, who is most secret or who is most technologically advanced, but rather, about who has the most available time on their hands.

Eventually one or more parties just dog it to exhaustion and everyone else gives up. The players take over the existing systems begun by and originally maintained by 'the people' who just don't want to put in the required time and focus it would take to try and track it all, let alone call the players on everything. At that point it becomes more the game of the players, and all participation is reframed toward and/or for the new context/players.

And thousands of years -- er, hundreds of pages -- later, nobody remembers what things were originally about anyway. The only story passed down is a title, a sentence, a few excerpts, and nobody but archivists with a lot of reading time would see history, let alone understand it.

RC

Well said!

I'm impressed with your analysis. I myself wouldn't use the word
'devolved' however. But you are correct; the person or persons
with the most 'time' or just plain stubbornness are the ones who
leave the biggest mark.. and often the most stubborn are the
ones with a mental disorder or the like.

For the most part, well-adjusted people don't change history..
they live their lives quietly... many founders of great philosophies
and systems had things like OCD, Asperger's Syndome, etc. I did
a study on this.. others have as well.

Really --- the 'control loop system' is in large part due to this
stubbornness / mental disorder effect --- all human systems
are in large part formed this way.

Now, I know that you were aiming your irony at me and a few
others, but that's OK .. you truly made a great observation...
and I don't take offense.

Thanks,

Kev

a reply to: tetra50

As for sage advice.. humans have created the world they want to live in..
and now they are paying the price for their extreme poor choices. 99% of
all species which have ever existed are now extinct. Humans are in the
process of bio-engineering/techno-engineering themselves into extinction
as well.. there will be a human-created species that takes over.

Yet as you noted, nature will keep chugging along.

From my perspective at least, the 'average person' whatever that means,
would not wish to know what was 'true', as it's not very flattering, and
certainly not humanocentric. Humans always want to adopt a comforting
lie, even truth-seekers, after they become exhausted.

As I've said numerous times, i have found 'my truths', and no, none of them
are particularly comforting for anyone, even me. So I don't see much point
in talking about them.

I sometimes think I should write up some of the 'intermediate things' I've
come across, that might be helpful, but nobody died and made me Jesus,
so I would not presume to put overmuch weight on my own 50 year
journey. I'm a work in progress as much as anyone.

Kev

a reply to: Baddogma

BD,

Everything evolves, and nothing is black and white. Everything is an emergent
property of emergent properties of emergent properties. At our level of ability
to perceive anyway.

Humans tend to want a white knight with a lance, who can ride up and slay the
easily identified dragon, which will fix everything once slain. It's this solidified
crust of the control system which is baked into human culture.. it's the common
myth which has evolved from the first principles of the stars in the sky and
the animals found in nature.. the seasons and other basics. If you read
Frazer, Massey and Campbell you can trace back how we got to where we are
now.. sans any ACTUAL metaphysical critters which go bump in the night..
which are (in my experience) both overstated and in one slight
case (the sentient plasmas) --- understated.

Life feeds on life. Call this good, call this evil, call it whatever you want..
but by avoiding the 'crust of deception' (the fruit of thousands of years
of devolved first principles), you can start to see what's going on.. but
that doesn't mean there is a quick fix.. the tidal force of corrupted
self-deception cannot be changed overnight, by anything short of
absolutely self and societal honesty.. and how would that happen?

The control loop seems to indicate, that the first person(s) who can
do 'miracles' or 'fake miracles' can grab the horse by the bridal and
lead it.. and as you might have noticed, that has been the focus
by various factions for a long time.

I don't want to play that game.. it's hazardous.. the control loop
drives insane anyone who tries that.. read Vallee.. Keel.. and
others.

The first step is understanding.. the second step is honesty.

Maybe that's as far as it goes.. maybe humans would have to
accomplish both of those steps en-mass for there to be a third
step...and given social inertia and the idiocracy effect,
I don't see that happening.

Kev

a reply to: RedCairo

I remember what it was all "originally about", I just haven't been able to think of anything else to say about it...

And I haven't given up, I still keep an eye out here in case there are any new 'developments'....
Of course - I do tend to have an awfully lot of time on my hands

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: tetra50

but nobody died and made me Jesus,

Kev

Sweetheart, haven't you figured it out yet?
You don't get to be Jesus 'unless' you die for it


(That is meant to be a joke - apparently, I am under the impression that I'm funny tonight)

a reply to: lostgirl

I like your humor lostgirl... I think you're funny tonight too...

a reply to: lostgirl

When I was a very earnest little boy, like
7, I offered to go to hell for all eternity if
it would rescue Jesus; all that whining
and complaining on his part and all the
church people..didnt respect that...but
my earnest offer was not accepted.

I didnt know back then, that christianity
was just a copy of a copy of a copy of
earlier nearly identical religions.
and that in the very beginning it was
all based on astronomy and astrology
and no such persons ever existed at
all..and nobody ever claimed that
they did, before around 325 BCE.

I still use some of the corrupted expressions
though.....and would find zero wrong with
death if it would accomplish something.

I recognize the humor aspect...and am capable
of it and like it....but I've been very serious
about fixing all this pain and stupidity with
my first thoughts...only I can't of course
nor should I even if I could.

But im not a quitter either.

Kev

KPB,
I don't think you've ever looked closely enough at 'who' Jesus was (if he existed at all, which I would not in any way assert)...

In my earliest 'spiritual searchings' (and believe me, I've been at it as long, & studied as many of the 'various' teachings, as you have), I actually read the bible cover to cover twice, and then read the new testament, and then went back and read only the parts which are 'attributed' to Jesus himself...and since, have spent enough hours to probably add up to years - pondering, conjecturing, reasoning, doubting, rethinking, rereading, and over and thru again and again, as well as...

....reading the pondering, conjecturing, (etc., etc.) of people like C.S. Lewis and other of the more 'loving' rather than 'judgmental' type Christians, just to get their 'takes' on the kind of 'person' they believed Jesus to be...

And, I have to say this:
No where did I find any indication that he ever did any "whining and complaining", and (while I'm sure he would have appreciated your offer at age 7 - if he existed) he most certainly never had any need of "rescue"...

...because the whole point (again, if it were true) was that he 'chose' to be crucified (and no, not for any 'saving us from sin', nonsense).

Here's what the 'study' of Jesus will tell the discerning student - Whether the 'story' is true or not - Jesus would have been the most purely, truly, unconditionally loving person who could ever possibly have existed....

....In point of fact - someone who might (and I emphasize 'might') well be worth believing in...

Something I've been meaning to ask you - if all the spiritual beliefs/religions are engineered by the control loop for them to feed on the 'frenzy' -

What do they get out of people who believe in Love? No doctrine, no dogma, no judgement, no 'frenzy', just purely and simply - Love?

And where, according to your 'philosophy' (for lack of a better word), would such 'Love' have come from?

a reply to: lostgirl
Dear Lost Girl:

From one separated from my own faith, your response here brought me to tears, in its understanding and complexity and simplicity, all at once. I think you nailed it, uniquely.

Unconditional love is so poorly understood, today, and often mistaken for foolishness.
However, it may be, within the control loop, the only thing that allows for chance happenings, not scripted or planned for by said loop, which the purpose of among other things, is to assert and reassert, its control, if nothing else. But love may be the only thing that can beat that….and chiefly, love of one's enemy, which is much harder than anything else. Love may be where the miracles are.

And this may explain why the said loop needs so badly to arouse negative emotions in us…they provide predictability.
Regards,
tetra

Maybe there needs to be a new thread about the "parasitic chakra entities", because that idea has nothing whatsoever to do with Vallee's work.

a reply to: Autograf

I've personally been done with this thread
for 6 months, but if people keep posting
to it I get sucked in.

As for 'parasitic entities' they are on the
fringe of Vallee and more related to John
Keel; whose writing was similar.

I'm not really interested in writing about
that subject either....as there is a ton of
back material to be learned.

Maybe it would be the best for me to
restrain myself. ill unsubscribe.

Kev

a reply to: lostgirl

C-

Love and religion are mutually exclusive.
The more you have of one, the less you
have of the other.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: lostgirl

C-

Love and religion are mutually exclusive.
The more you have of one, the less you
have of the other.

Kev

Well then, quit bashing Jesus, okay? Because (if he does exist - which I tend to lean toward, because of the Love represented in His story) it isn't His fault that people misunderstood, misquoted, usurped, and perverted His message - and turned Him into a 'Religion'...

And you haven't answered my question about how the control loop figures into 'belief systems' (which you've expressed many times - are "all" control loop deceptions), which are predicated on a spiritual belief in Love...

...i.e. If the 'God' I believe in is a perfect, pure, unconditional Love 'whom' I happen to feel a spiritual 'relationship' with - what is the control system 'getting' out of that?

To bring the 'discussion' back around to Jacque Vallee, I want to point out the relevance of my two most recent posts...

I've been mulling over a hypothesis the last few weeks - What if Vallee's Control System is not 'negative' in nature?

Consider: Belief in Fairies (and the like) never did any of the believers any harm, nor has belief in UFO's (removing 'negative' abduction/contact narratives, which IMO have all been orchestrated black ops)...

...And, if you really study the history of the world's religions, none of the 'originators/founders' had 'evil' intentions, it was only when their spiritual teachings were subverted by certain 'factions' (so to speak) of humans with intentions to 'gain' from any given religion, that it became 'negative' in nature (and dramatically snowballed in that direction, but again, as a result of specific human intent)...

My point is this:
What if the 'control system' is simply trying to give humanity 'something' to 'believe' in?

There's been a lot of talk (psychological/philosophical) about the "God Shaped Hole" in the human psyche (I recall that title of a particular article, but not where it was published).

The theory being that humans have some sort of basic 'need' for the spiritual (going right back to earliest humankind's shamans). Humans show an 'intrinsic' need, a deep yearning in actuality, to feel that there is something 'greater' than mankind on the scale of 'existance' ...

Well, what if there is? What if that 'something' is Vallee's control system?
And, what if it's manifestations (all the various Gods, Godesses, Fairy folk, etc., and ET's) have merely been it's attempt (thru out mankind's various 'stages', i.e. UFOs for modern times) to give humans what they 'need'...

....Something/Some'one' to believe in? What if the control system's intention is to help mankind by trying to 'fulfill' our yearning for the 'numinous'?

Conjecture du jour - submitted for the pleasure of your contemplation, discussion, and elaboration, et al...

originally posted by: Willtell
Also…

Vallee talks so much about UFOs in terms of some kind of “social phenomena”. I could really get with that. Then he goes on to talk the same old control power trip that always leads me to seeing him as the sorcerers apprentice. But in 2014 the sorcerers apprentice is the wise scientist like him and the sorcerer is the government. He disappoints me when he veers to that angle seemingly all the time.

Vallee talks about Buddhism: the practitioners of this form of metaphysics gain real power through passivity or yin not yang.
Alien
Ali yin

The word ALI means most high

We know what Yin means
ALIYIN

This kind of philosophy, Buddhist, Taoist gains power through not only yin energy but by integration and the opposite to this or negative energy is separation and out of balance yang energy, the essence of the sorcerers on the planet

Vallee cant go down that road because he is so connected to the gov control apparatus who don’t want to be challenged in this regard…they want to keep their weapons of mass destruction and energy of ultimate destruction: nuclear energy and power.

Yin energy is vital because the over indulgence of yang energy

I don't think Vallee is referring primarily to the government when he talks about a control mechanism.

a reply to: Tangerine

I totally agree. In fact I posted WHAT VALLEE REALLY MEANS very early in this thread.
But people wanted to veer in all kinds of directions on this OP. No problem let the people do what pleases them…but if you want the truth go here and read my post

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oh one more thing. The secret of the alien phenomena is in the post of mine you responded to. But only the wise can decipher it