Something else that should truely ANGER you about Helthcare in America.

Okay, so I have mentioned this in a couple of threads, but it is so upsetting to me I though I would create a thread about it.

So many people are up in arms over health care right now, and we all know the new system is broken, but this seems to be overlooked.

Millions of Illegal people get free health care in this country every day. Why is it that Americans will pay a fine for no insurance, yet the Illegal, mostly non tax paying people just walk into the ER and get treated for their common flu or cold. Sure they get billed, but how many bills get paid Not only are we treating them for common Ailments but also serious VERY COSTLY ailments.

Many State such as California, Texas, Arizona, have millions of Illegals in each state, and guess what? They get sick, they just go to the local County Hospital. How the hell is that Okay? I have to have insurance, and I am a legal citizen, these people don't even belong in this country, and they get treatment FREE. I have had to go to the county hospital a couple of times last year before I got insurance, and it was literally over run with Illegals, and I had to wait 6 hours to be seen. Barely anyone even spoke English in that waiting room. That should anger you!

Why Is it that we taxpaying citizens have to foot the medical bills for people who are BREAKING THE LAW by even being here. Why should I have to wait in a ER behind 20 people, none of which are legal, for treatment?

These people, have no insurance, no way to pay, and we as taxpayers end up getting stuck with the added cost. Their inability to pay in turn drives up Medical Cost, which drives up OUR insurance premiums.

I am all for LEGAL immigration. I want people to apply, and go through the process, the LEGAL way. Not just hop into my country for a free ride. They all need to take the pledge, know basic English and pass the immigration test.

If you think about millions of people going to our ER's who do not belong in this country, getting treated. How many BILLIONS do you think that would add up to????????????????????????????????

Also those who do pay taxes, How many of them are doing so under a Illegally obtained Social Security #...I know for a fact they do that, because I was a restaurant mgr for 16 years. I saw them leave with one name and SS# and come back a few months later with a different name and SS#....You tell me that is legal? So many laws broken on so many levels....here is an eye opening link....
www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org...

reply to post by kurthall


I know you're not going to like what I'm about to say but...

Illegal immigrants pay taxes.

The issue with the healthcare system is that the free market has been completely removed from the process and a hospital trip to have the doctor tell you that you have a fever and to take two tylenol costs 500 bucks.

And some of those immigrants also collect a "refugee" stipend, a type of welfare. The US has no problem helping others out, just not those who are already in the system. When is the last time you were offered an interest free loan to start a business?

reply to post by OrphanApology

Most illegals don't pay taxes, they claim deductions for 11 kids they dont have and pay nothing, seen it too many times to count. the reason why illegals benefit so much for free and are allowed to just walk into the country with no consequence and almost zero threat of deportation is that Obama HATES America,he won't even say the pledge of allegiance. Obama is a traitor, pure and simple, he is against America and Americans, he is pro illegal immigration and refuses to guard the border,illegally.

For the same reason that someone here illegally who doesn't even belong in this country can go to a state university on in-state tuition rates on government loans or grants while your son or daughter who may live out of state while being a legal citizen has to pay a jacked up rate to attend the same university.

Legal citizen of another country = cheaper rate
Legal citizen of another state but this country = jacked up rate

This isn't anything new, either. I've heard this same rant a hundred times over from all sorts of people, strangers and friends alike. Letting it anger you is a waste of energy, as there is realistically nothing you can do to change the system. One of the biggest lessons I've had to swallow is that playing the game is necessary to keep my sanity. Earth is a stage, and we are all actors who pay rent to live here - not only for ourselves, but for others as well, unfortunately.

reply to post by OrphanApology

The issue with the healthcare system is that the free market has been completely removed from the process and a hospital trip to have the doctor tell you that you have a fever and to take two tylenol costs 500 bucks.

Question 1. What is the free market you refer to and how would that make a difference to people's health costs? Where is this working?
Question 2. WRT your assertion, why does the current system result in 2 Tylenol costing $500? It doesn't, but stuff is more expensive than anywhere in the western world.

reply to post by ketsuko

Just like Obama did by attending college in the US as a foreign student...

abe froman
reply to post by OrphanApology

 

Most illegals don't pay taxes, they claim deductions for 11 kids they dont have and pay nothing, seen it too many times to count. the reason why illegals benefit so much for free and are allowed to just walk into the country with no consequence and almost zero threat of deportation is that Obama HATES America,he won't even say the pledge of allegiance. Obama is a traitor, pure and simple, he is against America and Americans, he is pro illegal immigration and refuses to guard the border,illegally.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. You have fallen victim to the same political meandering that leads normally rational individuals from paying attention to the real causes and possible solutions to issues.

Notice how most people didn't give a flying # about illegal immigrants prior to the 2008 crash?

Here's a nifty website that has information in regard to illegals paying taxes. This is the same information I found myself when I researched the sources myself in a finance/Statistic class.

roygermano.com...

Either way though, if you truly want to understand the issue with the American healthcare system I would recommend this article:

www.comedsoc.org...

You might hate that we are "footing the bill" for the illegal immigrants receiving treatment, but I'd rather pay than have millions of people spreading infectious diseases just because they are afraid to seek medical treatment for fear of being deported.

reply to post by InverseLookingGlass


Read this article:

www.comedsoc.org...

I will just post some general highlights of what happened:

1. In 1973 Nixon passed a bill called the "Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973". It was a scam that basically made it to where health insurance no longer worked as an insurance product.



2. The way an insurance products work is that you pay a premium to protect yourself against a rare but catastrophic event. HMOs instead are insurance "products" that pay for everything and completely remove the consumer from the process.

Think of it as you would car insurance, where it pays for everything including windshield wiper fluid and oil changes. Imagine how long it would take for the price of those to increase significantly.

Now imagine that your car insurance doesn't even let you decide which auto shop you go to.

Now imagine that you can no longer shop around when an auto shop does a poor job.

Now imagine that you can't even make an appointment for things such as oil changes without first going through the insurance company.

These are just examples of what I mean by HMOs having completely separated the individual from the healthcare process.

3. Employer tied health insurance that turns employees into slaves that have to stay with companies or else lose access to healthcare.


These are just a few highlights. I would recommend the article as it's a thoroughly beefy topic that I could spend all day on.

Actuaries are the ones who price insurance products and there's not a single one that would tell you health insurance works without government intervention. It shouldn't even be called "insurance" as it's just a #ing mess.

reply to post by OrphanApology

I am not talking about some article, I am talking about what I have seen with my own eyes. Many illegals come here with a specific time table to make as much as they can and then take it back home. This leads to billions in US dollars leaving the country illegally, tax free. They are in essence exporting their poverty to the US, crippling our infrastructure. Welfare, schools and HEALTHCARE. Only a traitorous government would not only allow this but encourage and fund it at taxpayer expense. Free healthcare for illegal immigrants, taxes and penalties for citizens.Treason.

reply to post by abe froman


Yes because understanding that article would require reading and research instead of broad generalizations and witch hunts after people that have not been the cause of the issues in this country.

100 years ago the illegal immigration of today would have been called "moving".

Larger states and more laws do not remedy any issue and have only served to stifle freedom and turn everyone into slaves with no options.

Illegal Immigrants do pay taxes and are not the reason America sucks right now.

reply to post by kurthall


Ill bet those county hospitals tax you for treatment too huh. Might want to go check your tax bills. The "community tax"
Taxed whether you use the hospital or even whether you have kids in school or not. Just saying. Guess what they take away from you if you can't or don't pay them? This is in both republican and democratic held states.

drink a few of those.

OrphanApology
reply to post by abe froman

 

Yes because understanding that article would require reading and research instead of broad generalizations and witch hunts after people that have not been the cause of the issues in this country.

100 years ago the illegal immigration of today would have been called "moving".

Larger states and more laws do not remedy any issue and have only served to stifle freedom and turn everyone into slaves with no options.

Illegal Immigrants do pay taxes and are not the reason America sucks right now.


--- Though I am sure that reading your left wing agenda article would convince me that what I have witnessed on numerous occasions first hand did not happen I'm still going to skip it.
No one is talking about 100 year old semantics here except you.
I at no time mentioned or advocated large or larger states.
Many illegals do not pay taxes and came here with full intentions of not paying taxes and illegal immigrants ARE one of the reasons America sucks right now.

reply to post by abe froman


You see Abe, the problem with some people on ATS is that they believe that no one has experienced anything outside of their own homes. It's difficult for them to fathom the idea that people, like you and I actually see and experience things with our own eyes firsthand. They rely on articles to convince not only themselves, but others.

I've seen first hand what illegal immigration brings to not only the U.S., but also Europe. (When I say Europe, I mean Europe. I've lived in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the U.K., Germany etc.) I've lived throughout the United States and even Asia. What's the factor that ties them all together? The issues with illegals.

Illegals DO.NOT pay taxes except sales tax on the items they purchase. They claim this and that so they can receive any and all benefits they possibly can. They even have little "clubs" or "groups" that help other illegals get those benefits. They're so entrenched in the system that they know it in and out. That's the cold hard truth about illegal immigrants world wide.

In Sweden a few years back, there was an online community for illegals that helped them get the help they needed to receive "free money", housing and medical. To take the side of illegals is like slapping those who work hard in the face and laugh.

reply to post by OrphanApology


For the sake of argument I did read your article. What a load of bovine excrement!!!! Left wing pro illegal propoganda at it's finest. Some idiot pushing his pro illegals documentary.My favorite on that page is the posed question "Are illegals a drain on the economy?" and the answer is some idiocy about Well, it's hard to answer that question because we don't really know how many are here and we need to study and evaluate... Here's your answer Yes, Yes they are. The kind of person that would fall for this non sense is the same kind of idiot that would help burglars load his own possessions into their truck.

abe froman
... the reason why... is that Obama HATES America...

No, Obama hates YOUR America, as do a lot of others, which is why he became the democratically elected President of the US. Subtle but important difference, eh?

abe froman
reply to post by OrphanApology

 

I am not talking about some article, I am talking about what I have seen with my own eyes. Many illegals come here with a specific time table to make as much as they can and then take it back home. This leads to billions in US dollars leaving the country illegally, tax free. They are in essence exporting their poverty to the US, crippling our infrastructure. Welfare, schools and HEALTHCARE. Only a traitorous government would not only allow this but encourage and fund it at taxpayer expense. Free healthcare for illegal immigrants, taxes and penalties for citizens.Treason.

To all you people staring this guy.. what is your problem? This is my side your side bs..

Let me set something straight for you. Obama is not the only assclown who sold this country down the river, just saying.. Want a small list that I know of that is treasonious?

1913 Federal Reserve Act.
Illegal wars
PA I II and III
TSA
Homeland Security
And all kinda things.. Notice Obama had nothing to do with this.. All this was done prior to him.. As for this Obamacare bs, well look left to see my opinion..

Also another little thing about these illegals stealing our jobs and such(1st time I am ever going to stick up for them and probably only time.) taking money to their homeland so on and so forth..

Ya not like we aren't helping the problem as real Americans and stopping the problems where they start.. Wait wasn't it bush who didn't give more money for Border Patrols?
Isn't it bush's family collecting on the ass ton of weapons they are making? Isn't Cheney Collection on supposedly rebuilding Iraq? All this crap has nothing to do with republicrat it has to do with a few people that are screwing the many.. But people like you who enjoy divide and conquer well Nothing gets done..

muse7
You might hate that we are "footing the bill" for the illegal immigrants receiving treatment, but I'd rather pay than have millions of people spreading infectious diseases just because they are afraid to seek medical treatment for fear of being deported.

That is the point they SHOULD be deported. Here read these EYE OPENING STATS. These people cost you more than you even have begun to realize.........Millions? Try BILLIONS...Not millions.
www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org...