Witchcraft

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posted on May, 22 2003 @ 10:02 AM
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I have questions!!

I do not understand people who say they practice witchcraft and then use the word 'good' in the same sentence..
I never understood black magic/white magic, aren't they one and the same? Seems that if you are casting spells at all even if 'you' consider them to be good, they may not be 'good' for someone else?

Byrd~I know you are going to have a field day with this one...and I totally respect your views. I do however disagree with the concept of white/black and good/evil spells or witchcraft. You cannot have one without the other....can you??

Here is an example-I am using a *spell* to help my neighbors' husband find interest in his wife again and thou this may 'seem' good, and with good intentions, if that is not what the husband wants and I told him what I was doing 'he' may see it as evil. So then what is good to me you see, is not so good to another..
And if you are doing anything without someone elses consent then isn't that considered the opposite of good(even though not necessarily evil) but not good either?

So please anyone can you explain this to me?
Thanks magestica




posted on May, 22 2003 @ 10:11 AM
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Hmmm, that's a tricky one Magestica.. I do believe in Witch craft, but as you say what might be good for one person isn't necessarily good for another.

I have a good spell book at home and I have dabbled, but none of them have ever come true.

I guess if your neighbours husband has lost interest in her, the only thing that will bring it back is him wanting her again... I'd love to think that you could change someone's mind, really I would or somehow get into their head and make them realise the mistakes they are making but I just don't think it's possible.




posted on May, 22 2003 @ 10:21 AM
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OK magestica, I have studied this and can give you an answer... In the beliefs of "witches, gardenias, etc." when casting a spell you can only "visualize a type of person, not a particular person.
Most true "witches, etc." would consider trying to get someone to do something against their will is evil.

That is why one can't be specific, only vague, ie.. I am looking for someone with a certain hair color, certain height, certain personality traits, etc.

The difference between "black and white magick, or good and evil" could be in the person viewing.
Their motto and what they live by is "Harm none, do what thou will". Thus "true" white or good magick could only be used in a way that no one is hurt or goes against their will.

I hope that I haven't confused you even more with my explanation.

_____________________________________________
Be Cool
K_OS



posted on May, 22 2003 @ 10:28 AM
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I sense from some of your posts that you may be struggling with understanding where the truth lies and where possible spiritual danger exists.

I would begin by answering that a persons orientation and personal beliefs would influence their accepting whether magic has both positive and negative elements.

From a Christian perspective any supernatural power or ability that does not emanate from the God of the Bible, is Satanic in origin. Occultists would obviously argue conversely.

Ive read several books about seemingly good supernatural powers used for the benefit of mankind. One such book is Arigo, who was a Brazilian man that would go into a trance-state and be inhabited by seven spirits who transferred intuitive and healing powers to him. Jose Arig was a simple man of little education who suddenly began to do skilful surgery in a small town in Brazil. His first operation was witnessed only by the patient. Arig, who had been in a trance at the time, didn't believe the story himself when told about it. But his second operation took place in public. It happened when an old woman lay dying, surrounded by her family, friends, and the Catholic priest who had just given her the last sacrament. Arig was among the friends present. All at once he drew a large kitchen knife and ordered everyone to stand back in a strong German accent and voice that was not his own. He then plunged the knife into the woman's stomach. The onlookers, terrified that he had gone mad, stood transfixed. He slashed through the stomach wall, cut out a growth the size of an orange, and closed the incision by pressing the sides of the cut together. The incision dosed immediately without a scar. A moment later he was himself again - the plain, somewhat bumbling man his neighbours knew. Arig had no memory of the episode, though soon the woman who had been on the point of death was walking around the room, recovered.

Johanna Michaelson:



The story of the author's involvement in the occult and learning to distinguish between the beautiful side of evil and the way of the Lord. This is the account of a young woman who became a personal assistant to a psychic surgeon in Mexico, and who, in answer to her prayers, discovered the true source behind the miraculous healings she witnessed.

I've read this book about 20 years ago and found it very convincing.

THE DARK SIDE: BEYOND GOOD AND EVIL

The Bible says that Satan can quote scripture and deceive many in his bit to steal souls from a loving God. I suppose at the end of the day we must all search our souls and seek the truth as we believe it is to be found.

Hoping you find the answers that satisfy you quest for truth and meaning in life.

Deep



posted on May, 22 2003 @ 11:00 AM
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You guys answered alot of what I was looking for..
*And basically what you are saying is..if someone were casting spells about, then if 'they' consider it harmless then it would be white magick, but if they knew they were doing it for their own benefit then it would be black magick? Am I correct? But isn't there a very *fine* line between the two if there even is a line?

I just cannot for the life of me understand those that say they are wiccan or witch and they are "good" and only practice white magick..magick is magic period good or evil is still done for a purpose outside our normal limitations and therefore seems evil to me? I should also point out (Pocket) that the above was merely an example not something I do or have done
I don't dabble into these practices, but have had many try and get me too. When I was young and naive, I did a little bit here and there...but not anymore...and this is the reason I'm asking any of these questions.
Magestica

Also, what is the difference in being a 'true' witch and not? and yes I'm still a wee bit confused


thanks Deep for the book recommendation..I'll definately check it out



posted on May, 22 2003 @ 07:04 PM
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Think that media, religion and societal controls/coventions in general has, in a way, corrupted the concept of withcraft.

Without a doubt there are those who practise, who utilise their abilities to channel energies for wrong purposes. These people, in my culture, are termed Tohunga Makutu...and they do have the ability to cast evil, curses and such...by accessing negative/evil energy...manipulating it, condensing it, and focusing it upon an area/person for a desired effect.

There are also those who are simply Tohunga Ora...like the yin and the yang I guess...who are healers, cleansers, helpers, guides...who channel GOOD energy through them...who are but the hands of Good...or God/light (however you wish to term it) and whose purpose is not their own...it is the purpose of the side of good/God/light.

These people realise and are conscious to reaffirm that what they do is NOT their power...is not their glory...but the glory of good/God/light. They are aware that once they start to take any 'ego' from that ability...then it becomes either lost to them, or corrupts them. For some Tohunga Makutu were once Tohunga Ora, yet corrupted their abilities for their own ends.

I know many people who are good, who use what could be termed 'good magick'. Tohunga Ora. My mother is one. What she does is more a case of what God does THROUGH her...she takes no glory from it...she takes no credit for it...it isn't hers to own.



Peace,
ALIEN

[Edited on 23-5-2003 by alien]



posted on May, 22 2003 @ 07:37 PM
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It's best to take the concept away from witchcraft, like alien says, as the idea of what witchcraft is has been altered by our cultures.
Take anything - law, for example, or medicine.

Are there not noble, altruistic lawyers and slimy replulsive lawyers?
Are there not selfless, humanitarian doctors and greedy self-centered doctors?

Not to mention, in all matters there is no definite 'good' or 'evil'. How you define an action can differ greatly from how the person doing the act will define it. Or even a third party.
Not to say there aren't 'evil witches'. Just rest assured there are 'good witches' to oppose them.



posted on May, 22 2003 @ 09:35 PM
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I think the ''Movies'' have much influence on what we consider to be 'good'' and what we consider to be ''bad''.

Casting spells is just that..........it is meddling in the 'occult'' no matter what WORD is used to define it.........

eg...Let's take the tv show......Charmed........3 good witches........who fight evil........but they themselves sleep around , defie what the ''elders''(higher up people ) have to say, and do what they consider to be ''good'' for the rest ........

Majestica............many people today look for answers in the '''Movies'' it is there and it seems real enough.......although we know it is just '''a movie'' we are influenced by it, when we know nothing of what is true or what is false.........we accept what the ''movies '' give us..........we take it in a little at a time and that has great influence in how we perceive life to be.........although we can distinguish that it is only a movie........we are influenced by it.........especially young children............
Watching these ''good witches'' on tv or movies we believe it to be good and safe enough to dwell in something that is of the ''supernatural'' ..........
I know many may not agree with me, but i have to a certain extent been influenced by the same..........eg.
Bewitched...........it seems harmless enough......good witch samantha marries 'Darren'' a mere mortal........and they happy being a normal down to earth couple.......A few spells here and there(no harm done)
What you watch ,is how perceive life to be........unless you have background knowledge of what is real or what is fiction..........
I got into the ''supernatural'' stuff at a young age......i was 15 when i was interested in the ''supernatural'' ......eg.....seances........talking to spirits, oobe.......tried it a few times...........spells........stupid ones......lol.......i had a book on spells.......one of them was how to make music (pretty stupid ,now that i think about it....i did have a radio
)

Any way.........I mainly did it for fun (not to cast spells on anyone ,or hurt anyone)
My parents saw nothing ''bad'' of it..........they actually laughed and saw it as a game...........
I got into seances..........i would read minds(manty times i would know what the person was thinking........although i never said anything about it )
Seances became an everyday thing for me........whether i used a paper and pencil (i woyuld hold the pencil and it would write ) or whether it was done like a oujee(i think it 's spelt like that )board.....cut out letters and yes and no............glass in the middle....(those that do this know what i mean......
Any way........this took over my life (i guess i could say the same with many on their P.C .internett...)
Little by little i would sit and talk with ''spirits'' (that is what i thought they were, dead peoples spirits) and it became an ongoing thing.........i would sit at school at lunch time , recess ,and people would come around and watch(i was quite shy and the ateention was ....well...felt good.......)
Any way........too long to go into..........
Other stuff that influenced me was .....U.F.O.'s ....Aliens.....I even joined one of those''ufo society' mail info .........
My parents never saw it as an influence........they never saw it as a ''bad '' thing........and i'm sure many feel the same today.........it looks harmless.........not in any way ''bad''..........well , it is much more then any one could realize.............
Enough said.......sorry for talking too much........

White /black.......magic.............it is one and the same......no matter how you look at it........



posted on May, 22 2003 @ 09:50 PM
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from the Wiccan point of view, black magic does not exist and any true Wiccan (which are the true witches) would never even try to practice it

btw, to the person who mentioned a spell book, they dont work because the spells weren't made for you, you cannot get spells out of books, you have to make your own, specifically for you, for the purpose you choose



posted on May, 22 2003 @ 09:53 PM
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Placebo effect



posted on May, 22 2003 @ 09:55 PM
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which one, out of book or true made?

Byrd can explain concept in more detail



posted on May, 22 2003 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by helen670

Casting spells is just that..........it is meddling in the 'occult'' no matter what WORD is used to define it.........


and meddling in the 'occult' is bad because..... [insert answer here]




Majestica............many people today look for answers in the '''Movies'' it is there and it seems real enough.......although we know it is just '''a movie'' we are influenced by it, when we know nothing of what is true or what is false.........we accept what the ''movies '' give us..........we take it in a little at a time and that has great influence in how we perceive life to be.........although we can distinguish that it is only a movie........we are influenced by it.........especially young children............


I could say the same about religion.




Watching these ''good witches'' on tv or movies we believe it to be good and safe enough to dwell in something that is of the ''supernatural'' ..........


*cough* Jesus *cough* supernatural *cough*



posted on May, 22 2003 @ 11:33 PM
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These people realise and are conscious to reaffirm that what they do is NOT their power...is not their glory...but the glory of good/God/light. They are aware that once they start to take any 'ego' from that ability...then it becomes either lost to them, or corrupts them. For some Tohunga Makutu were once Tohunga Ora, yet corrupted their abilities for their own ends.

Peace,
ALIEN

[Edited on 23-5-2003 by alien]

And your above quote is why I said I think there is a very 'fine' line between good/evil black/white magick..
Thank you for your information Alien..maybe eventually someone can get through to my noggen and I'll understand it when someone says they are a 'good witch' but still...I don't think there is such

Magestica



posted on May, 22 2003 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by quango
Not to mention, in all matters there is no definite 'good' or 'evil'. How you define an action can differ greatly from how the person doing the act will define it. Or even a third party.
Not to say there aren't 'evil witches'. Just rest assured there are 'good witches' to oppose them.


I understand that completely, but we are talking about people who are practicing 'witchcraft' which is outside of normal human limitations for the most part...I'm sorry I just cannot for the life of me see how someone can say they are a 'good witch' and only practice white magick. To me there is no white/black in witchcraft there is only one color and perhaps it is grey? But to just say you are good, would be because YOU say you are. I'm just saying..magic is magick there is no one without the other.
Magestica



posted on May, 22 2003 @ 11:53 PM
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I don't compare what I 'see' in movies, maybe when I was a little girl I did, but what I'm asking comes from real life..real experiences...not some movie or TV show.

(if that was the case then aliens would be good little grey men, witches would all be teenage beautiful little girls who cast love spells, and the president would be Michael Douglas or Harrison Ford)


So no..my opinions don't stem from TV.



posted on May, 23 2003 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by magestica
I understand that completely, but we are talking about people who are practicing 'witchcraft' which is outside of normal human limitations for the most part...I'm sorry I just cannot for the life of me see how someone can say they are a 'good witch' and only practice white magick. To me there is no white/black in witchcraft there is only one color and perhaps it is grey? But to just say you are good, would be because YOU say you are. I'm just saying..magic is magick there is no one without the other.


I understand you. I think maybe for us non-witches it's hard to put a label (good or evil) on something we don't understand fully (and it would be impossible to understand something to which we have no personal access). But I believe that among those who do have such powers, there would be a set of 'morals'* and the witches would, and do, seperate themselves into good and evil, just as normal persons do.
I guess you could describe all humanity as being grey - we just like to think we're doing good. That 'witches' have more power makes that a slightly scary idea, but i have faith that most people (and most 'witches') are usually trying to help each other out. Or at least, staying out of each other's business.


*if i may use this word.



posted on May, 23 2003 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by magestica
I don't compare what I 'see' in movies, maybe when I was a little girl I did, but what I'm asking comes from real life..real experiences...not some movie or TV show.

(if that was the case then aliens would be good little grey men, witches would all be teenage beautiful little girls who cast love spells, and the president would be Michael Douglas or Harrison Ford)


So no..my opinions don't stem from TV.

Hi Majestica.........

The president was Ronald Reagon.......


I know that life in the movies is all based on some sort of factual happenings.......but how much of it is true and how much of it is a lie.........Do we know how much of it to be true???
Or do we accept it as being all imaginary make believe???
Do we know what we are dealing with ,when we mess with such things???
(i'm only speaking of my experience.......others ,may think otherwise.....)



posted on May, 23 2003 @ 08:28 AM
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When you say Religion..........which part is it that is of Bad influence???(i'm asuming you are referring to Christianity)
Is it ..............
Bad to Love???
Bad to be kind???
Bad to love your enemies???
Bad to help others???
Bad to forgive ,those that do you harm ???

Thre are lot's more.........

So which ,witch ,is which ???(
)

No really.........which part of True Christianity is of bad influence ???



posted on May, 23 2003 @ 09:29 AM
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Personally I think the terms 'witchcraft' & 'witches' is old fashioned & outdated. But I guess some people still prefer those references.



posted on May, 23 2003 @ 09:32 AM
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Witches, in real life, does not refer to Satanists or anything like that, Witches are Wiccan/Pagan peoples. There is no "black magic" to a witch, it just doesn't exist, and if you tried to use it, then you are not truly a witch and it wouldn't work for you anyways, i'm serious, go talk to a Wiccan





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