Right Wing Evangelicals Claim 'Good Christians' Can't Get PTSD

Right Wing Evangelicals Claim 'Good Christians' Can't Get PTSD

This thread was inspired by Cancerwarrior's thread in Social Issues. RFT being slow, I thought I'd go ahead and post it; though it's from several weeks ago.

I saw it then, but decided not to light a fire at the time. But here again, in keeping with my theme of bringing to light how SOME Evangelical Christians deliver emotional abuse onto the vulnerable - it needs pointing out.

DISCLAIMER: I am not talking about ALL Evangelical Christians. I am talking about the ones who mistreat, shame, ill-educate, and demean others in the name of "God" or "The Bible."*

My aim is to encourage the non-abusive Christians to speak up; these types are making you ALL look bad, whether or not you see it. It's very similar to the Islamophobia that paints ALL Muslims as jihadists. I know that it's a small minority who are dangerous, destructive, and misanthropic - on both sides, Christian AND Muslim.

On a Veteran’s Day broadcast, two of America’s most influential televangelists claimed that good Christians can’t get PTSD.

Kenneth Copeland, who is famous for pitching a fit when a senator tried to investigate his nonprofits and for inspiring a measles outbreak, said, “Any of you suffering from PTSD right now, you listen to me. You get rid of that right now. You don’t take drugs to get rid of it, it doesn’t take psychology; that promise right there [in the Bible] will get rid of it.”

Copeland’s guest, conservative revisionist historian David Barton, agreed, adding, “We used to, in the pulpit, understand the difference between a just war and an unjust war. And there’s a biblical difference, and when you do it God’s way, not only are you guiltless for having done that, you’re esteemed.”

Barton believes that anybody who behaves “biblically” during war can’t get PTSD. Unfortunately, there is a logical flip side to this statement: someone who has PTSD must have not been biblical in his actions, and thus he is ultimately responsible for his own PTSD.

ON VETERAN'S DAY he said this!! My husband is a veteran, who lost several military friends over the years, and at least two family members....he spends Veteran's Day mourning.

Cancerwarrior's thread HERE cites an article saying that 22 veterans PER DAY in the U.S. are suiciding; and that number does NOT include Reservists or National Guards, so the toll is definitely HIGHER than that reported. It would be more in line with what we read every bloody day on news outlets.

For purposes of illustration, I clicked over to cnn Middle East while I'm at it, just to get an example. Of course, I KNEW there would be reports of at least a few people killed in the name of religion and/or politics:
Today:

At least 16 are killed in a car bomb explosion in Syria
Scores of people were injured
Separately, 42 bodies are found at an ISIS base, a rights group says

edition.cnn.com...

Yesterday:

A suicide bomber on foot killed at least nine people and injured 16 others at an army recruitment center in central Baghdad Thursday, local police officials said.

edition.cnn.com...

Why is it that leaders can't stem this insanity??

The global Military/Industrial complex has become so enmeshed with Religious Zealotry that their bastard offspring are abominations. Monstrosities have become a plague on humanity; it's been around forever, I know - but aren't we at a place yet where this can be STOPPED?

I guess not. Maybe we never will. It makes me despondent.

*Back to the OP article:

Understandably, a lot of people are upset by Barton and Copeland's assertion. Even the staunchly conservative Gospel Coalition (TGC) and America’s largest Protestant denomination, the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), made no bones about their distaste for Copeland and Barton, the former calling them “profoundly stupid,” the latter “callow and doltish.”

That’s an aggressive attack, especially given that a significant number of Christians, including leaders at SBC and TGC, share Barton and Copeland’s belief that mental illness can be cured by faith. A September survey by LifeWay showed that fully 35 percent of Christians and 48 percent of self-identified evangelicals believe prayer alone can heal serious mental illnesses, including schizophrenia, major depression and bipolar disorder.

The idea that major illnesses can be cured by prayer feeds the idea that mental illness is the fault of the ill.

I honestly see no way out of this until 'leadership' (whether parents of little kids, or mega-church pastors, or televangelists) starts taking a stand and 'denouncing' ANYONE who a) promotes violence of any kind, or b) blames victims for what befalls them.

What do you, ATS, think would be a step toward solving this travesty of lost humanity??

Copeland is a typical TV evangelist who will say anything that he thinks will get him a check from whatever desperate or sad soul he can possibly influence. He is truly a wolf in sheeps clothing and he will never show any shame for his absolute stupidity because he does not believe a word that comes out of his own mouth to begin with and is far too narcissistic to ever possess the potential for feeling shame in any form.

What deeply saddens me is that twits like Copeland influence countless others who simply take whatever he says as Gospel because he represents himself as a man of God. It's pathetic.

What do bad Christians get then?

reply to post by Hefficide

What deeply saddens me is that twits like Copeland influence countless others who simply take whatever he says as Gospel because he represents himself as a man of God. It's pathetic.

Yes, it is. I agree, Heff.

So, how do we - the regular people of whatever faith - put a stop to their misguided influence??

Hefficide

Copeland is a typical TV evangelist who will say anything that he thinks will get him a check from whatever desperate or sad soul he can possibly influence. He is truly a wolf in sheeps clothing and he will never show any shame for his absolute stupidity because he does not believe a word that comes out of his own mouth to begin with and is far too narcissistic to ever possess the potential for feeling shame in any form.

What deeply saddens me is that twits like Copeland influence countless others who simply take whatever he says as Gospel because he represents himself as a man of God. It's pathetic.

Thank you for posting that, Heff. Copeland is in no way a Christian, and should not be used as an example of one. He is a predator and a fraud.

Not a single word from this man's mouth should be considered inspired by the Bible, or God.

What do you, ATS, think would be a step toward solving this travesty of lost humanity??

reply to post by wildtimes


Until people learn to think, these travesties will continue. Sadly, I don't see the 'age of enlightenment' at hand.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos

Copeland is in no way a Christian, and should not be used as an example of one. He is a predator and a fraud.

Not a single word from this man's mouth should be considered inspired by the Bible, or God.

Hi, Prof. I'm glad you didn't drop by just to give me a hard time, thanks for that.

You make an EXCELLENT point, you and Heff both (I'm not sure how to answer the question about what "bad Christians" get - not my venue).....

so, what do you think can be done to shut him up??? What would honestly WORK? Even the SBC denounced him; but as Heff points out, these few rabble-rousers DO have influence on millions. I'd be tempted to outlaw "religious television", but of course, that would be "against civil liberties."

Do you suppose these people EVER think about the effect they're having on others?

I'm just a member of ATS, and I think about the effect my posts/threads will have every time I hover my finger over the clicker...
I HOPE to influence people to avoid this type of counterproductive "Christianity" - but, mostly I think I'm fighting an uphill battle, and children will continue to be fed into the soul-shredder of hellfire/brimstone hatred, bigotry, and stupidity.

Sorry for offending anyone - but this topic....I just can't seem to shake it!!

wildtimes
reply to post by ProfessorChaos

 

Copeland is in no way a Christian, and should not be used as an example of one. He is a predator and a fraud.

Not a single word from this man's mouth should be considered inspired by the Bible, or God.

Hi, Prof. I'm glad you didn't drop by just to give me a hard time, thanks for that.

You make an EXCELLENT point, you and Heff both (I'm not sure how to answer the question about what "bad Christians" get - not my venue).....

so, what do you think can be done to shut him up??? What would honestly WORK? Even the SBC denounced him; but as Heff points out, these few rabble-rousers DO have influence on millions. I'd be tempted to outlaw "religious television", but of course, that would be "against civil liberties."

Do you suppose these people EVER think about the effect they're having on others?

I'm just a member of ATS, and I think about the effect my posts/threads will have every time I hover my finger over the clicker...
I HOPE to influence people to avoid this type of counterproductive "Christianity" - but, mostly I think I'm fighting an uphill battle, and children will continue to be fed into the soul-shredder of hellfire/brimstone hatred, bigotry, and stupidity.

Sorry for offending anyone - but this topic....I just can't seem to shake it!!

Unfortunately, there is no way to shut people like him up. As long as there are fools with money, there will be people like Kenneth Copeland to collect it.

The only way for frauds like him to be eliminated would be for wide-scale discernment to become the norm, and that ain't happenin'.

Don't get me wrong here, I do believe that there will be consequences to lack of faith, but that doesn't mean that people are supposed to run to Christ strictly because of fear of retribution. So, groups like the WBC and scumbags like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn and Joel Osteen are going to have some 'splainin' to do when their day comes.

Everyone seems to have their own way of looking at salvation, and I'm fine with that; it's not my place to judge them, but the people mentioned above are the epitome of evil in my opinion.

Wait.. A Right Winger said something stupid?! My whole belief system is shattered.

/sarcasm

reply to post by ProfessorChaos

The only way for frauds like him to be eliminated would be for wide-scale discernment to become the norm, and that ain't happenin'.

As much of a natural optimist as I am, I am beginning to think you're right. You and everyone else who says it will never happen.
Maybe it won't. Ever.

wildtimes
reply to post by ProfessorChaos

 

The only way for frauds like him to be eliminated would be for wide-scale discernment to become the norm, and that ain't happenin'.

As much of a natural optimist as I am, I am beginning to think you're right. You and everyone else who says it will never happen.
Maybe it won't. Ever.

Sorry to bring you down, but as far as the human race goes, I don't have a whole lot of faith in it.

People just seem to get more and more stupid as time goes by, and maybe that's by design, maybe it's a coincidence. All I know is it is the state of the world as I see it.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos

Sorry to bring you down, but as far as the human race goes, I don't have a whole lot of faith in it.

It's not your fault. I have a sort of bizarre 'outlook' on the human race.

In some ways, it seems SO SIMPLE to me that people could just put aside their hostility and lay down their arms, and TALK to each other....
but in other ways, it seems hopelessly futile indeed. Maybe that is what "Earth" life is supposed to be, and if you've read much of my posts, you may recall that I believe in reincarnation and karmic balance....

Yes, if EVERYONE would make the effort - if we as a COLLECTIVE could focus on improving things, moment by moment, day by day, it could happen. But there are simply too many angry, cold, brutal, vengeful, selfish people, I guess.

I actually prefer animals over most humans, although I weep for humanity's plight, I also weep for the planet herself, the innocent creatures that are treated as disposable 'nuisances' or 'handy victims'.....

It's a hard thing to be a sensitive person in such an awful world, and to have no voice.

In terms of humanity at large, I think of ATS as 'the smoking section' at a large workplace. The people who go out to 'have smoke breaks' are some of the nicest, most genuine, unhateful, non-judgmental folks in the world - yet we are ostracized, ridiculed, yes persecuted....

Anyway, I'm glad to be part of this crowd. The real 'thinkers' stick around, and the trolls get bored and leave. But, it's rarely a dull day around here!!

Thanks for your contribution, and for reading.

I HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE WITH THIS SUBJECT.


Four years ago (spring and summer 2010) I was very ill. I was having a full autoimmune flair/melt down ... cascading. My body was in a free fall. I couldn't talk. I couldn't walk well. I couldn't keep a thought in my head. Everything was buzzing numb. My mouth and throat and lungs were BURNING endlessly. I coudln't swallow hardly at all ... the muscles or nerves weren't working. We didn't know what it was and I went through perhaps a dozen IDIOT doctors until I finally got an accurate diagnosis. I was STRESSED out and ANGRY from all that. And we found out that the disease I have (Sjogrens with poly neuropathy) causes major depression in about 70-80% of people who suffer from it.

I had a best friend. She told me I wasn't behaving like I should with the illness. I wasn't a good enough Catholic/Christian according to her and I should know better. I tried to educate her on the stressful situation and the frustration and the fact that the disease itself causes depression. But she, and her husband, continued to be judgmental telling me I wasn't behaving or thinking as I should as a Catholic/Christian.

I cut ties with her. I haven't spoken to her in 3 1/2 years now.
Her attitude, as well as her husbands, was a MAJOR disappointment.
I don't need people like that around me.

Don't ever tell a Christian that they can't have PTSD or depression or be angry with a situation.
That's absolute stupidity ... and it's NOT helpful to the person who is suffering.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Wow. Thanks for sharing that.

While I'm sure there are competent spiritual 'counselors' - they are not the ones who get all the airwaves and press; it's the nutters - the powermongers and haters like Pat Robertson, and in this case, Copeland.

Yesterday I watched "The God Delusion" (Dawkins's documentary) - he interviewed Ted Haggard (he of the perpetual sneer - what a smarmy sleazo!), who told Dawkins "don't be arrogant." LOLOL!!!!!

Gha. They showed footage from his mega-church - he said "the people think of it as a rock concert."

*sigh* That guy makes my skin crawl, just looking at his sneering, superior face. Can't stand him.

Glad you got a decent diagnosis. Did your friend ever follow up? Or does she (and her husband) think you are simply a 'fallen sinner'???

Outrageously stupid.

wildtimes
Did your friend ever follow up? Or does she (and her husband) think you are simply a 'fallen sinner'???

I have no idea what she thinks. They never apologized.
They moved more than 1,000 miles away and I've made no effort to speak with them.
I"m just not going to bother ....

reply to post by wildtimes


Two kind of opposite kinds of comments.

1. ATTACHMENT DISORDER IS EPIDEMIC. Given a class of intro to psych students . . . MAYBE 1-3 would have RELATIVELY little evidence of RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder). Many semesters, NONE of my students showed an absence of RAD. IOW, ALL OF THEM showed at least significant degrees of it.

1.1 RAD is the granddaddy of all PTSD roots.

1.2 Clearly, intrinsic and extrinsic Christians are rife with it--probably as much as the general population.

2. IF Believers COULD AND DID appropriate the promises of God in Scripture by The Blood of The Lamb and Holy Spirit's power in a way that daily applied Christ's healing and wholeness . . . then, true, they'd be relatively quickly freed of such.

The major teachers I know helping folks along that line are:

www.beinhealth.com...

www.iamchanged.com...

and

Curry Blake

www.youtube.com...

2.1 Most Christians live far below the inheritance IN CHRIST that Christ died and suffered to deliver to us.

reply to post by BO XIAN

1. ATTACHMENT DISORDER IS EPIDEMIC. Given a class of intro to psych students . . . MAYBE 1-3 would have RELATIVELY little evidence of RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder). Many semesters, NONE of my students showed an absence of RAD. IOW, ALL OF THEM showed at least significant degrees of it.

Yes, you've made that point many times on the boards.

The thing is - that we ALL have damage from our upbringings. No parent is perfect. Good parents do their best; but we ALL feel like we're missing something - that unconditional love that is what we receive as babies.

Your focus on RAD (yes, I know what it is) is sort of 'using a broad brush', in my professional opinion.
Thanks for your input.

Do you have an opinion about what these 'preachers' are saying? That "Good Christians" are immune to PTSD?

What you call RAD, I could call PTSD. We all suffer from not having been 'shored up' in our every fiber and cell for every moment of our lives.

What a load this is OP. I haven't read any other comments other than the topic. But wow, really. I suppose though, Christian religion has violent roots in it. Look at the crusades, I wonder if those guys had ptsd or not?



Just to clarify when I said what a load this is OP. I meant what the evangelists were saying, not you. I'm a veteran myself, and also, I am so sorry for your husbands losses.

reply to post by gunshooter


Okay, thanks. That helps.
(I kinda thought that was your point, but wanted to get clarity. )

gunshooter
Look at the crusades, I wonder if those guys had ptsd or not?

I was watching the history channel the other day. They were talking about Joshua and his battle campaigns. (frankly, he fits the description of a terrorist). He'd have his band of cutthroats attack innocent towns, slaughter every last living thing (all people and animals), and then leave the town an abandoned bloody mess. After each attack, he told the soldiers they were 'unclean' or some such thing and that they had to 'stand down' for a week and bath and meditate/pray. The TV commentator said that historians believed this was the way that Joshua combated PTSD and helped make sure that the 'soldiers' (terrorists) didn't end up with psychotic breaks from slaughtering all those innocent people ... men, women, children, and babies.