Right Wing Evangelicals Claim 'Good Christians' Can't Get PTSD

reply to post by FlyersFan

historians believed this was the way that Joshua combated PTSD and helped make sure that the 'soldiers' (terrorists) didn't end up with psychotic breaks from slaughtering all those innocent people ... men, women, children, and babies.

I've been saying this a lot lately, but: WOW.

I'm not sure I take the history channel all that seriously (having discovered their bias when a year or so ago they did a miniseries about the civil war - specifics escape me now),
but....
could you source the episode you mentioned?

reply to post by wildtimes


I don't remember the name of the show. It was a week or so ago. If I remember correctly it was either the original history channel or the H2 channel. They talked about all of Joshuas battles. The guy was a thug. He and his terrorists would go into a peaceful town; attack it; kill ever last breathing creature ... from every human down to every cat ... and then leave. All because they believed they were chosen by God to do so. Their behavior fits exactly what modern day civilized people would call 'terrorist'. Joshua acted just like the muslim extremists of today do ... "kill those who don't believe the same way and spare no one, because we worship correctly and are 'God's' favorites" ...

ETA .. anyways, I remember the 'week off' after a battle to rest and bath and meditate. It was really a calm down so you don't go psychotic or get PTSD thing. But Joshua told them they were unclean or some such thing and had to do all this before rejoining the rest of the group. It's obvious that the break was for psychiatric reasons .... but the peasants bought into the 'god says you are unclean for a while' thing ....

reply to post by wildtimes


The best face I could put on the preachers' blather is that

a congruent, Biblical, genuine life in Christ results in the individual being at peace with God, with themselves and with others . . . and therefore no stress sufficient for PTSD regardless of circumstances.

That's the ideal. Some reach that realm. Most don't most of the time . . . until a lot of years have passed, if then.

Christ warned that in this world we would have TRIBULATION. For most folks, that results in considerable stress.

Even daily life in our era seems designed to generate lots of stress.

imho, RAD is the granddaddy of the other maladies because, as MRI studies have shown, lack of quality parenting the first 6-8 years of life results even in physiological brain damage. That sets folks up to perpetuate certain dynamics as well as construing the world as threatening emotionally and interpersonally.

And, as Sam Soleyn sp? in MY FATHER MY FATHER articulates so well . . . we have become an era of orphans.

Orphans have 2 concerns: food/provision and security/safety.

There's not much energy or risk left over for other priorities.

And, imho, it's not that children weren't loved and supported congruently every moment. Of course not. But when the chronic condition is one of

--neglect
--absence
--emotional, physical, verbal, and/or sexual abuse
--harshness
--coldness

etc. etc. etc.

then THAT DOES HAVE DEVASTATING LASTING EFFECTS whether one calls it RAD or PTSD.

I have seen some balderdash spouted over the years, and have followed ATS for some time before joining the forum last year.

I respect the fact that people can have views that differ from mine, but, I tend to rely on facts, as proven, if I am quoting facts I will say so, if I am giving my interpretation I will say so, if I think I am reading a load of tosh I will think so.

God, whether he or she or it, in my experience will not care whether you are a good or bad Christian when it comes to what you can catch or suffer from, we are all human and equally susceptible to whatever ails us. You can be the best practicing Christian in the Cosmos and still get aids from a blood transfusion. You can be an innocent baby in the womb and be a drug addict before you are born if your Mother is an addict.

Religion at times gets carried away by its adherents, sometimes to the edge of hysteria. If there is a God, and I am neither confirming nor denying the existence of such a supreme being let alone a GAOTU or whatever the top brass in the Illuminati refer to this entity as, I don't think it would differentiate between good or bad when it comes to who gets ailments, physical or mental.

When it comes to it, do we really think that any true God is interested in the trappings of religion, the gold threaded robes, the buildings, the secrecy of 'knowledge' and the brain washing that can occur in gods name? I don't.

We need to differentiate between 'snake oil salesmen' and 'bible thumpers' and those that might just be more attuned to nature or real life. I have only met one shaman to my knowledge, he was a Canadian canoe maker and was far more in line with reality and the earth, because that's where we live, reality and earth, than any number of religious crazies.

I know who I believe have more wavelength sharing with the reality of life and the world in which we dwell and it's those that recognise our place in the world, I.e. as part of it, with a huge responsibility to it. It all boils down to materialism, profit and greed. That's the Illuminati way not the natural way.

So, if you are a Christian, good, bad or indifferent and you have PTSD, don't listen to the crap espoused by the idiots, listen to your inner self.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I have seen the show you are talking about and was going to comment on it in the same vein you did actually. For all our violent tendencies as a race, we generally do not deal well with killing one another. And clearly PSTD was a known problem even back in antiquity and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that many other ancient cultures having similar practices.

As far as Copeland and his ilk, there isn't much that can be done about their broadcasts without impinging on their rights.

reply to post by wildtimes


Blame the victim for what befalls them?

Doesn't reincarnation says exactly that? Everyone gets their KARMA.


And how you say that prayer cannot heal?

I am in no way defending these idiot evangelists, I am just saying that people who believe in God and afterlife are less affected by extreme negative worldly events.

logical7
I am in no way defending these idiot evangelists, I am just saying that people who believe in God and afterlife are less affected by extreme negative worldly events.

Negative worldly events .... that's not exactly what causes PTSD. Sometimes ... but not usually.
PTSD is caused by extreme events in a persons life. It's personal. It's mind breaking.
Lack of faith doesn't have anything to do with it. It has to do with just how much the human mind can take.
It's basic psychology. LOTS of people with 'faith' develop PTSD and/or clinical depression.
That doesn't mean their faith was weak or that they were 'bad' and are being punished.
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OTHER INFO -For those interested.

Christian PTSD Treatment

It’s common to experience feelings of anxiety following the loss of a loved one or a traumatic event. Sometimes in the aftermath of an overwhelming, tragic or terrifying event, you can experience anxiety symptoms that are so severe that they disrupt your daily routine.

Post-traumatic stress disorder can be triggered by a range of events including exposure to rape, mugging, terrorism, domestic violence or psychological abuse. Though PTSD is common among military and law enforcement personnel, it can affect people in all walks of life.

After a traumatic event it’s easy to feel like you’ve been abandoned by God. But this isn’t the case. By strengthening your relationship with God, and getting proper psychological help you can gain the strength to move forward with your life.

Broken Believers - a site for Christians with PTSD and/or Mental Illness

Help for Christians with PTSD

For far more people than realize it, being fearful is like being subject to migraines – literally a medical condition that strikes some but not others and who is struck has nothing to do with levels of faith, devotion or manliness.

reply to post by logical7

I am just saying that people who believe in God and afterlife are less affected by extreme negative worldly events.

Uh, no. They just find a way to distract themselves from the actual problem.

Clearly you do not understand what PTSD is, the level of trauma that triggers it, or how it is treated. This rather surprises me, seeing as you live in an unstable part of the world with much poverty and violence. Perhaps you're just "used to it." That's being inured, DEsensitized, not traumatized.

FF just posted you some Christian help sites for the emotionally hurt; if you looked at them, you'd see they talk about the neurological and biochemical processes, and recommend psychological help (among other things that don't make sense to me- like blaming "Satan" for feeling bad about oneself).

What is your remark about reincarnation supposed to mean in the context of this thread? We are not talking about awareness of negative worldly events; NOR are we talking about subsequent lifetimes balancing out 'karmic debt' -



We are talking about an intense, terrifying or horrifying Personal Trauma in THIS LIFETIME, either as a witness or a participant, and the resulting despair, hypervigilance, disturbed functioning and sleep that ensues: a profound unease that far surpasses the disgust or anger we might feel when reading the daily bad news -- and these Evangelicals telling someone they are only 'suffering' because they are weak and "bad" people are just causing MORE trauma than their 'belief system' already provides with its built-in "shame" factor.

PTSD is an exquisitely SUBJECTIVE thing.

As for prayer, the jury is still out. I think that a 'positive mental attitude' can help in some cases - say, to stop 'worrying' over something that might or might not happen...as for prayer "healing" PTSD? No. Especially in the case of soldiers, who had the best of intentions and were sent to God-awful places and 'ordered' to do horrible things to other people. Not talking about mercenaries and sociopaths who WANT to blow people up.

Think about, for example, a little child, whose whole family is raped and butchered in front of their eyes, and then 'recruited' to become a 'killing machine.' You think as that child grows up, they will have ANY semblance of a "normal" life? No - they will be forever screwed up. AND NO AMOUNT OF PRAYER will take that away. Prayer does not UNDO what is done.

Try again, and stay on topic - please.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I never said that people with faith cannot suffer PTSD. I just said that they are more likely to cope better during difficult and testing times.

I do believe that a person's belief should reflect on their behaviour and how they react to unfortunate events.

Its that classic conflict, "everyone wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die"

reply to post by wildtimes

You criticized the act of blaming the victims for what befell them yet reincarnation in which you put faith implies exactly that. That hoever is not the topic.

prayer can help. Before you refute that you have to refute the existence of God and that He can answer prayers. It at least has a psychologically positive effect on the one who prays.

your general theme of asking "good" believers to denounce anything bad that some religious people say or do is very much known. I did not yet see the point of it.

reply to post by logical7

your general theme of asking "good" believers to denounce anything bad that some religious people say or do is very much known. I did not yet see the point of it.

You don't see the point of it??

wildtimes
FF just posted you some Christian help sites for the emotionally hurt; if you looked at them, you'd see they talk about the neurological and biochemical processes, and recommend psychological help (among other things that don't make sense to me- like blaming "Satan" for feeling bad about oneself).

Yeah, I don't buy the 'satan makes you feel bad' stuff either.

As I'm sure you could see .... the reason I posted them is to show that PTSD DOES happen with
hardcore - faith filled - Christians. It's not a matter of 'weak faith', or if people trusted God
more then they wouldn't have emotional issues. It doesn't work that way.

That's why I posted the websites. Not because I agree or disagree with what they say, but
just to show that ANYONE can get PTSD or become clinically depressed - no matter what their
faith level is.

reply to post by FlyersFan

That's why I posted the websites. Not because I agree or disagree with what they say, but
just to show that ANYONE can get PTSD or become clinically depressed - no matter what their
faith level is.

I know. You were very clear.
I just wanted to point out that some of the 'faith-based' suggestions contained in the linked sites was not something I agreed with; lest someone 'cherry-pick' the links and try to accuse us of believing that part simply because it says so on the sites.

No worries, friend!

wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

your general theme of asking "good" believers to denounce anything bad that some religious people say or do is very much known. I did not yet see the point of it.

You don't see the point of it??

NO I don't.

its like me posting the crime rates of your town and asking you to denounce it. How would that benefit anyone?

reply to post by logical7

its like me posting the crime rates of your town and asking you to denounce it. How would that benefit anyone?

Really? Bringing attention to issues that affect us all - and our children and the global population - is 'not beneficial'?

I DO denounce it. I work to stop it.
What is your suggestion? Prayer?

reply to post by FlyersFan


Faith is not something steady. Its very dynamic. it fluctuates.

reply to post by logical7

Faith is not something steady. Its very dynamic. it fluctuates.

Interesting.

(Not that it's news to me; I'm just interested you said so.)

Has your 'faith' ever been weakened by an event? Say, a HORRIBLE event??

wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

its like me posting the crime rates of your town and asking you to denounce it. How would that benefit anyone?

Really? Bringing attention to issues that affect us all - and our children and the global population - is 'not beneficial'?

I DO denounce it. I work to stop it.
What is your suggestion? Prayer?

your issues have a very visible agenda. Do you think people cannot see through what these Evangelists say? and the ones who believe them would continue being that way.

About praying. I believe in the philosophy, "prayers can move mountains but you have to keep pushing while praying!"

wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

Faith is not something steady. Its very dynamic. it fluctuates.

Interesting.

(Not that it's news to me; I'm just interested you said so.)

Has your 'faith' ever been weakened by an event? Say, a HORRIBLE event?

Yes, my faith has gone through ups and downs during difficult times. Its all about a short sighted view compared with seeing the bigger picture. Faith is about beeing able to keep the bigger picture in mind when things go bad.

reply to post by logical7

You criticized the act of blaming the victims for what befell them yet reincarnation in which you put faith implies exactly that. That hoever is not the topic.

I am going to tie this in to the topic....

Reincarnation/karma is when THE UNIVERSE steps in - it is not some jackass standing on a stage telling a PTSD victim "they deserved it for not being a 'good' believer!!!

Picture a 20-year old youth who has just returned from a combat theater with much gore and death, and is shaken up; shaken to his very core. He has a 'crisis of faith' in what he's doing. And the CO says, "Hmm. Sucks to be you, soldier! It happened because you aren't a good enough 'soldier,' never have been, never will be, because you suck. And you deserved this."

Two completely separate things. What a single person does in this single lifetime has its own 'consequences' - and we learn from those lessons. It is NOT the job of any other 'single person' (or crazed mob) to 'dole out the consequences' (attacks by Drones; payback, a la Taliban)!