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Science and the Afterlife Experience

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posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 07:56 AM
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Science and the Afterlife Experience



Chris Carter is an Oxford Philosopher who began studying cases of the paranormal years ago, and has done a very thorough job of deconstructing the actual EVIDENCE for life after death, while also examining the skeptics' arguments.

In three books, he discusses quantum physics, NDEs, and Afterlife Experiences as described by the deceased.

In the third book, he treats the legacy of one of the founder of the Society for Psychical Research, back in the 1880s, a Frederick W H Myers. He was a prominent investigator into the evidence for an afterlife.

He was a very earnest and thorough investigator/philosopher of the paranormal. He was part of the Society for Psychical Research. After he died, he began dictating a book, which came through a medium (an amateur named Geraldine Cummins who never knew him and was a little child when he died 23 years earlier), over an extended period of time; it explains what happens and how the Personality continues after Death.



The Fredrick W. H. Myers Communications


Frederick W. H. Myers (1843-1901), a brilliant scholar and one of the founders of the Society for Psychical Research, reportedly communicated to spiritualist mediums all over the world shortly after his death. Myers may have decided that the best way to prove that he still existed after death was to send a series of messages through different mediums. The Myers communications assert that the afterlife is divided into stages, each with its entry phase, a period of development, and a period of preparation for the next higher stage. One receives an impression that it is the aim of the Creator to "take into the firm," as junior partners, as many as can qualify. There are seven stages, which are levels of consciousness, or realms of existence.


Published over 100 years ago.

And yes, all you skeptikos, I know that Randi and his ilk have scoffed and ridiculed this stuff. In my opinion, after having read the trilogy by Chris Carter, I don't care. The "materialists" pooh-poohing paranormal and after-life phenomenon are a bunch of whiney though influential and understandable loud-mouths.

There is ample, scientifically proven evidence for life continuing after death. In another thread I said I'd not argue the case; but then I decided to start a thread on the subject (having finished the third book by Carter just yesterday); so, herein I'd like to DISCUSS the case, AND direct interested readers to Chris Carter's books. Myers is discussed in detail in book 3; here is a clip from the webpage for the book:



We seek hard evidence that stands up to the most rigorous critical scrutiny. Years before I even considered writing this book, I sought to find such evidence, and after combing through numerous books and journals, I was surprised by the sheer quantity and variety of the evidence for an afterlife. Some of the reports dated back hundreds and even thousands of years. But the most rigorous evidence by far has been gathered in modern times by respected scientists and scholars, beginning in the closing years of the nineteenth century, and continuing to the present day.

however, as a philosopher, I was not content to merely examine the evidence in favor of the survival of death; I knew that any counterarguments must also be fairly and closely examined if we are to arrive at any solid conclusions. I was aware that several philosophers and scientists have doubted or denied that we survive the death of our bodies, and so I began an in-depth study of the skeptical literature. Through reading, discussion, and the occasional debate, I eventually came to understand not only the "skeptical" arguments, but also the motivations of those who deny so vehemently that there is more to human beings than material bodies.

The idea that our minds survive the deaths of our bodies is known as the survival hypothesis, and although many people today associate belief in an afterlife with religious faith, it is important to remember that this belief long predates any organized religion.

There IS a conspiracy going on in the science world around the "red-headed step-child of scientific endeavor" that is Paranormal and Psi; there are also reasons that people like Randi go to such great lengths to dissuade people of the veracity of the findings.

I'd like to hear from those of you who have read Carter, and/or have interest in the actual experiments, if anyone is interested.
After 100 years of Quantum Theory, we are now at a place where we can begin to "explain" paranormal and psi as possibilities RATHER THAN SIMPLE WISHFUL THINKING.

So, I offer this subject to ATS. It's on my mind a lot nowadays, and would enjoy a civil discussion about it.
Perhaps most importantly, though, before we begin, I should add:
I want to believe.



There is an ongoing battle between hard "materialists" and those scientifically studying paranormal (psi). It's over 300 years old now; and more and more evidence is popping up.

For your reference, I'll provide you with a link that Examines Skeptics, as well as Randi's site (although it pains me greatly to do so) which is the hearth of skepticism. Carter had the dignity to present skeptical arguments, examine them, and give them an honest chance. As stated above, Carter gleaned a good grasp of the skeptical platform and can understand their reluctance, so I will do the same. But, I AM NOT A PHILOSOPHER, so please be kind.

Weighing the evidence and the personalities and dogmas involved is the only way we will get to the truth.




posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 08:09 AM
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Ok, now this sounds like a promising thread.

Subscribed.

Good luck with it, will be back to give an opinion.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 08:13 AM
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Although I have not read the books, but will now, thank you, I have had what I feel is enough evidence in my own life to make me believe that we do "survive" our deaths. That there is something afterward. I've never felt it to be like the bible claims, but I do believe.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by chiefsmom
 


I hope you do!! They're fascinating, and Carter gives VERY serious attention to both skeptical arguments, and pro-arguments, in an exceptionally balanced, thorough, calm way.

Interesting to me is that all my life I 'disbelieved' in so-called miracles and even the 'resurrection', but after having examined these books (which followed thorough examination of theological works), I'm not as adamant about it as I used to be.

I was never an "atheist", and have always believe in an afterlife; in fact as a pre-teen I 'decided' that what must happen is that we keep coming back for more 'lessons' until we have mastered ALL of the aspects of 'the human/physical experience.' And then, we can choose to come back to help, or move on to higher planes.

I had decided that Jesus was one of those who came back to help; and I still believe that.

Interesting stuff. But yeah, I'm an agnostic Deistic, and the evidence seems to me to be quite convincing.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 08:44 AM
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Myers is an interesting character indeed! In Authors of the Impossible: The Paranormal and the Sacred Kripal talks a great deal about him, along with Charles Fort, Jacques Vallee, and Bertrand Méheust.




posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:37 AM
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wildtimes
Interesting stuff. But yeah, I'm an agnostic Deistic, and the evidence seems to me to be quite convincing.


I hover somewhere between panendeism and panentheism.


Panendeism is a sub-category of Deism. It is based on the speculation that the universe is a part of god, but not all of god and literally means "all in god". Some panendeists have established numerous additional beliefs, some of which are quite detailed, and use more specialized terminology to describe their beliefs. However, any deist who believes that the universe is a part (but not the whole) of god, can be considered a panendeist.


panendeism.webs.com...



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Actually looking for them on my nook. Do you recommend starting with the first one? If so, which one is the first one?


Seems I can find 2.
Science and Psychic Phenomena
Science and the Near-Death Experience.
edit on 8-1-2014 by chiefsmom because: found



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



I'm curious as to why you make it out to be this huge battle between "materialists" and believers? "Skeptics" vs. "Non-skeptics"? I believe you're drawing an illusory line. There's no such dichotomy. There's people with evidence, and without evidence. There's people who practice science, and people who don't.

Anyone skeptical of scientific inquiry is the skeptic. Anyone skeptical of evidence to the contrary of their claims is a skeptic.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by Aphorism
 


I'm curious as to why you make it out to be this huge battle between "materialists" and believers?

If you would like more information on this, it's out there. Materialists have systematically scoffed at paranormal evidence, by doing things like only 'reviewing' the LEAST STRONG cases, and ignoring entirely the statistically significant ones.

Reading Carter's first book alone will introduce you to a plethora of experiments that have been very well controlled, and have shown statistical results that rule out "chance alone".

Materialists who look at ONLY the frauds, and come up with outlandish "theories" like "super-ESP" to explain things that are quite evident, do not want to admit they are willfully ignoring the GOOD evidence.

There is, in fact, extraordinary evidence for the 'extraordinary claims' of psi and the paranormal, but it is suppressed by people like Randi.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:03 AM
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Aphorism
reply to post by wildtimes
 



I'm curious as to why you make it out to be this huge battle between "materialists" and believers?


There are taboos in science.




posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by chiefsmom
 


I started at the beginning, with the first one about Psychic Phenomena. (Subtitle: The Fall of the House of Skeptics
) The 'trilogy' was divided into three volumes because the original work was too stout to publish all at once. Each builds on information explained/introduced in its predecessor.

If you are comfortable with quantum theory, the first one might seem 'redundant' to you, but even so, quantum is NOT an easy idea to grasp...
plus, in each volume he looks at the serious 'arguments' and 'objections' with an open mind, and that helps support his premise also. The first also very CLEARLY ilustrates the 'agenda' that Randi is working under, and explains how the entire subject has been mocked. The people earnestly studying these phenomena have been very meticulous in setting up their 'experiments' - progressively more complex and with improved 'controls'. It was astounding to me the amount of experimentation and testing that is STATISTICALLY significant.

I don't know much about Nook, but yes, those you listed are the 1st and 2nd. The third is the title of this thread, and it's available through scribd, amazon, and other sources; I bought all three on Kindle for my daughter...

edit on 1/8/14 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by BlueMule
 


Thanks so much!! I thought you'd probably have more sources at hand than I do...
going to queue up your video now. Thanks again.




posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Thank you. I will start with those two, then I can probably order the 3rd off amazon for the nook, or just hardcopy. (still prefer that over these E readers, but I'm trying! LOL)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


I have not heard of these people, but I am definitely going to look into them now - thanks!


My own beliefs have certainly evolved over time (and are still evolving). From being raised somewhat catholic, to being an agnostic/atheist in my late teens to early 20's, to believing this can't be it, to Christianity (non-denominational), to my current belief in an after life (one that does not conform to what they teach in churches) - and I absolutely do not believe in any form of "hell" (other than our current mortal existence
) ... religion is simply a tool to confuse and control people and their money and I do not believe any religion is correct.

There just seems to be too much anecdotal "evidence" and personal accounts of people who died and came back, though, to really accept that this earthly life is it. I don't want to die, but on the other hand I sort of look forward to death so I can "graduate" to what is next.

And off topic - OP, what is that picture of in your profile? Really cool looking!



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 10:55 AM
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The flesh has restrictions, while the Soul/Spirit can roam at large. Even in these bodies, we are energy. And we all know the saying: it can't be created or destroyed, only change form. This would also imply that it has always existed, in some form. My belief is that we become pure consciouness. The phenomenon known as "orbs" is the ground floor in this realization. I believe that orbs are spherical, quantum holographic (Light body) souls. They can communicate with the still embodied. They can access all information instantaneously. They also have the capacity to heal (if asked to do so). I also believe that this would be the fourth dimention beyond regular space-time parameters. There truly is nothing to fear but fear itsself.
edit on 8-1-2014 by Oannes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Dear Wildtimes,

What a wonderful thread
I'm even more interested in where this thread will go.

I've actually pulled back on ATS discussing this topic because of the hardlined skeptics and scientific bound a like, and I love science


My own personal beliefs in the afterlife go farther beyond any orginised religion. The experiances (and I can't stress experiances enough) have far more than put the afterlife on the table for me as "fact".

It's interesting as the years go by, we age, grow, through all fields from Science and the Metaphysical that it is becoming clearer that science is only affirming that which people have always believed. The old saying of "Reality is stranger than fiction" could never be more true.


Well, I don't want to keep jabbering on... I will wait and watch as this thread progresses to respond more.

Thank you again Wildtimes



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by tallcool1
 


Hiya, tallcool!!

Yes, I agree with your thoughts on it. Hope you do follow through and look at the evidence! I had much the same experience as you growing up.


(The pic is cropped from a photograph of a vista of the Harbin International Ice and Snow Sculpture Festival in China) Isn't it gorgeous?)



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 11:24 AM
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Awesome thread. I'm glad you started it. I had run out of reading material and was looking for something good. This sounds like it'll tickle my brain. I'll be googling all afternoon on this! Thanks.



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by Oannes
 


I agree, Oannes. We don't need to be afraid.
Thanks for your contribution!

(hey, are you guys seeing the 'color changing' with the emoticons? green, yellow, white....???? Not that I'm complaining - they're a big improvement over what we've had for the last few months).....



posted on Jan, 8 2014 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


You're quite welcome, my friend!!!
I've been immersed in the books (when not on ATS, or running errands, that's what I've been doing) for several months now.
I think you'll be very tickled indeed!!





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