Local lawmakers lead push for prayer in schools bill

reply to post by neo96


None of this has anything to do with what I just said.

Teaching abstinence is stupid, because we've all been teenagers. We ALL know and have experienced the overwhelming amount of hormones shooting through our bodies for the very first time. Teenagers WILL have sex it is a part of life. I did, my friends did, the people I didn't like did. I'm sure the case is similar for you as well. It is better to teach them to participate in it safely then to deny that it is actually happening. THAT is why abstinence is stupid, which for some reason is a popular position adults like to take like they never experienced what it's like to be a teenager or something. Your off topic remarks not withstanding.

Kali74
reply to post by neo96

 

Pics or it didn't happen.

That is an asinine comment:

www.nytimes.com...

This one is awesome what a tolerant school, but somehow don't see any madrass's doing the same to accomodate other faiths.

atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...

Come on now 'prayer is schools is unacceptable' !

Only when it comes to christians I guess.

neo96

Kali74
reply to post by neo96

 

Pics or it didn't happen.

That is an asinine comment:

www.nytimes.com...

This one is awesome what a tolerant school, but somehow don't see any madrass's doing the same to accomodate other faiths.

atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...

Come on now 'prayer is schools is unacceptable' !

Only when it comes to christians I guess.

You really discount your whole premise when the title of one of the articles you posted is this:

Universities Install Footbaths to Benefit Muslims, and Not Everyone Is Pleased

Wouldn't the "Not Everyone is Pleased" part be in line with the no religions in school mentality? Now whether it got shot down or not is dependent on the hypocritical electorate, but don't pretend like there isn't opposition to it.

reply to post by neo96


Footbaths Neo? You're comparing footbaths being installed in the showers at colleges to requiring religious worship during school time? I rather like washing my feed by the way and I'm not a muslim at all. Heck, I don't even have to use the footbath, it doesn't have to take up any of my time.

Southern Guardian
reply to post by beezzer

 

Beezzer. These abstinence classes. What are kid going to learn in them? And do you expect these teenagers to listen. Remember that in sex education kids are actually learning something. They are learning about the diseases that come with it, these are learning about protection, about the consequences. What are kids, teenagers, going to learn in abstinence classes hmm? What are kids going to learn in a minute of "silence" for prayer? Please let me know.

To be on topic, children will take that minute and perhaps pray, perhaps muse about the day, perhaps catch 60 seconds of sleep.
For those that take the minute constructively, it will be a positive thing.

As to teaching abstinence? Yes, it may be boring and it may bring about lessons in self control. But it is the safest measure for birth control and STD's.

But teaching about condoms instead, is like teaching the civil war with ninjas and jedi knights! It may not be accurate, or the best method, but it is more fun!

reply to post by Krazysh0t

None of this has anything to do with what I just said.

Sure it does.

It is clearly established that morals should only be taught by the state.

Parents, and religion obviously has no place.

Teaching abstience is stupid.

Clearly then we are just animals and just have the caretaker of the zoo just tend us lowly animals.

Having read the article and the bill, the following thing can be stated:

If this was for religious schools, it would be perfectly acceptable and probably expected to occur on a regular basis. However, there are a few things that can be stated, as the law makers are wanting to push this through a public school system and there will be challenges in courts that will cost the different school districts and the state millions that will be passed onto the tax payers.

The first problem that can be seen is that how this will be determined as not to exclude or even cause problems for the teachers or even the students who either choose to or choose not to participate. The language is too vague in the proposed bill, leaving it up to the discretion of those who would attempt to follow this bill.

And it could also be perverted to hold refusal to participate or even those who are not of the same religion as say the teacher, or the student or the school district or anyone for that matter. For example, what if the teacher is say Islam and leads the students in a prayer from that belief, would the law be willing to protect the teacher from any repercussion and law suits that would follow or the outrage from say the parents? What if it is a student, who is Islamic in faith and the prayer is against say those who are Jewish?

What if the student or teacher is say from an eastern religion, like Hinduism or Buddhism? How would the law be applicable to such? What if one of them is say pagan or even some other number of religions out there that some may find offensive? What if the religion requires some symbol to be displayed, or it is forbidden to be displayed to be properly worshiped? There are too many questions that are not answered here and while it is a moment of silence, the point being that this is going to end badly for the state, as all it will take is one student to be pointed out as being different and then it will open up the school and state to a legal challenge that will cost millions for the courts to look at and determine that it is possibly discriminatory or could lead to discriminatory actions on the part of those who do participate, or even bullying.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

Wouldn't the "Not Everyone is Pleased" part be in line with the no religions in school mentality? Now whether it got shot down or not is dependent on the hypocritical electorate, but don't pretend like there isn't opposition to it.

SO ?

Catering to a religion has already happened, but people draw the line at a christian praying?

That is an epic double standard.

beezzer

But teaching about condoms instead, is like teaching the civil war with ninjas and jedi knights! It may not be accurate, or the best method, but it is more fun!

Really beezzer? That is the best you can do? Really? I thought you were better than that.

en.wikipedia.org...

As a method of birth control, male condoms have the advantage of being inexpensive, easy to use, having few side effects, and offering protection against sexually transmitted diseases. With proper knowledge and application technique—and use at every act of intercourse—women whose partners use male condoms experience a 2% per-year pregnancy rate with perfect use and a 15% per-year pregnancy rate with typical use.[1] Condoms have been used for at least 400 years. Since the 19th century, they have been one of the most popular methods of contraception in the world

Exactly how safe are condoms?

But the first thing to appreciate is that figures for effectiveness of contraceptives are only approximate – hence our use of the word 'about'. So, claims made by contraceptive manufacturers should always be taken with a pinch of salt. However, the figure that we have quoted for condoms is a widely accepted one - even if only approximate.
It means exactly what it says that 'when used correctly a condom is about 98 per cent effective - only about two women in every 100 would get pregnant in the course of a year'.

It would be nice if you didn't succumb to shody posting. Using condoms is extremely safe and while not completely fail proof, I'd trust it readily in a pinch any time.

Southern Guardian
reply to post by neo96

 

Footbaths Neo? You're comparing footbaths being installed in the showers at colleges to requiring religious worship during school time? I rather like washing my feed by the way and I'm not a muslim at all. Heck, I don't even have to use the footbath, it doesn't have to take up any of my time.

A college is public schools is it not ?

Same Damn thing.

So Muslims can be catered to but a christian can't pray ?

That is BS.

neo96
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

Wouldn't the "Not Everyone is Pleased" part be in line with the no religions in school mentality? Now whether it got shot down or not is dependent on the hypocritical electorate, but don't pretend like there isn't opposition to it.

SO ?

Catering to a religion has already happened, but people draw the line at a christian praying?

That is an epic double standard.

And your point? It happened. Fight it. It's unconstitutional. If it makes you feel better, if you had posted this article as a thread I'd have been just as outraged over it as praying in school (though I do see the difference between an optional sanitation device versus pronouncing your faith in a government owned public facility)

Just because it's unconstitutional doesn't mean hypocrites don't exist. As well as, just because they got away with it doesn't mean that you are entitled to get away with your own unconstitutional religious agenda.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

What in the world are you talking about? Last I checked, Christianity is STILL the majority religion in this country

No it isn't, and has not been for quite some time.

The church of government is the countries largest religion.

Printing money out of thin air just like turning water in to wine. and giving it to the so called needy.

The father,son and holy ghost.

The giver of everlasting life.

reply to post by neo96


Two universities? And the Mosque bit? I doubt it. I notice no pics of those and the article (whole site really) which lacks any critical thought, asks where are the church pews? At a Catholic College there would be a chapel (duh).

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Condoms are really safe.

But not the safest. Is it?

neo96
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

None of this has anything to do with what I just said.

Sure it does.

It is clearly established that morals should only be taught by the state.

Parents, and religion obviously has no place.

Teaching abstience is stupid.

Clearly then we are just animals and just have the caretaker of the zoo just tend us lowly animals.

Hey if you want to teach your kids abstinence, knock yourself out. Last I checked there isn't a law that says you cannot teach your children whatever you want. I just told you that teaching it in a public school system is intellectually dishonest (stupid). Not everyone is a Christian who believes in no sex before marriage and not every teenager (even the Christians) have the self-control needed to practice abstinence. To deny sex is occurring between teenagers is probably the dumbest thing you could do. It is far better to teach safe sex methods along with repercussions of unsafe sex.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

And your point? It happened. Fight it. It's unconstitutional. I

1st amendment says freedom of religion

THAT MEANS.

if A CHRISTIAN WANTS TO PRAY IN SCHOOL THEY CAN.

if A MUSLIM WANTS TO THEY CAN.

that is what the constitution says.

That doesn't mean you.me, or government can tell them they can't.

That means government can make no law abridging the freedom of any persons relgion.

Does not matter one GD bit where a person wants to do it.

neo96
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

What in the world are you talking about? Last I checked, Christianity is STILL the majority religion in this country

No it isn't, and has not been for quite some time.

The church of government is the countries largest religion.

Printing money out of thin air just like turning water in to wine. and giving it to the so called needy.

The father,son and holy ghost.

The giver of everlasting life.

Just STOP making stuff up, it is getting seriously annoying.

Statistics on Religion in America

That link CLEARLY says that 78.4% of Americans identify as Christian.

reply to post by neo96


Where did I say that a person cannot pray in school? You are putting words in my mouth. -I- said that school shouldn't be mandating and setting aside time SPECIFICALLY to pray in school. That is two posts in a row I had to correct you, one more and I'll stop responding to you.

reply to post by beezzer

As to teaching abstinence? Yes, it may be boring and it may bring about lessons in self control.

Lessons of self control? This is what these abstinence classes are going to teach? This is going to be the alternative class to sex education? Do you well and truly believe teenagers are going to attend these classes or bother at all?

Self control? Are you going to teach them to read the bible instead of getting with their girlfriends and boyfriends? what the hell beezzer? What self control? "Just don't think about it" right? This is going to be something supposedly taught to these kids right? You call this education? There's not much more I can say to this beezzer. People like you who push these abstinence classes are well out of touch with reality sorry.

Southern Guardian
reply to post by beezzer

 

As to teaching abstinence? Yes, it may be boring and it may bring about lessons in self control.

Lessons of self control? This is what these abstinence classes are going to teach? This is going to be the alternative class to sex education? Do you well and truly believe teenagers are going to attend these classes or bother at all?

Self control? Are you going to teach them to read the bible instead of getting with their girlfriends and boyfriends? what the hell beezzer? What self control? "Just don't think about it" right? This is going to be something supposedly taught to these kids right? You call this education? There's not much more I can say to this beezzer. People like you who push these abstinence classes are well out of touch with reality sorry.

Personally, (in my opinion) kids today need to learn about discipline.