Local lawmakers lead push for prayer in schools bill

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Maybe atheists need time to reflect on how perfect they are.

reply to post by beezzer

You blame southern democrats, then the religious right.

And you accuse ME of being partisan.

Beezzer, do you really believe that all Democrats are leftwing commies? Seriously? There are conservative democrats and even those who are religiously right who are in the democratic party. It's not black and white buddy.

reply to post by ketsuko


Poor example. Letting Muslims not have to go to the cafeteria while fasting isn't something that is in the face of people who aren't Muslim. It's not like the school is forcing every student to fast to placate the Muslims. Not to mention lunch time isn't really class time. The example in the OP is taking actual class time meant for studying and learning and devoting it to a religious activity. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Well I think this may be the perfect opportunity for a little be careful what you wish for. Since it is Evangelical Christians that push this nonsense and desperately try to tear down the walls of separation of church and state, let's see how well this goes over when teachers that are a religion other than Christian lead those prayers. My guess is there will be all kinds of screaming and hollering the first time a Muslim teacher asks the kids to pray to Allah.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


I'm glad you asked that! I was just thinking about that myself and how, honestly, this is a good idea with no religious meanings involved at all.

60 whole seconds of each day isn't much to literally just have nothing happening. The kids are pushed, prodded and driven so hard that even recess is now being seen as wasted time in some districts and Lunch is more like a Military drill event for speed and efficiency than the leisurely hour or so I recall enjoying in school. Standardized testing makes for standardized people and a moment of reflection isn't a bad thing.

No phones, tablets, papers, pencils, books or anything else..for 60 seconds each day. Yup.. I can really see benefit to that, totally aside what this seems to be attempting to do with it.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


I am not sure why you are directing such ire towards my comments as you are projecting some intense emotional outcries of nonsensical arguments in response to mine.

If we take my suggestion, of removing the one clause of allowing the teacher to lead in prayer, and apply a minute of a moment of silence for reflection (may it be prayer or otherwise), does nothing to take away from the school day.

By the way, there are already school districts in the nation that allow for children to practice their religion (the Establishment clause swings both ways; not just in the manner you want it to). In some cases, up to eight minutes a day for Muslim students.

In fact, the Department of Education recognizes that while there is this mythical wall of separation, there is also the factual matter that the State (read the Government), cannot stop a person from practicing their faith; even in a school.

Lets dance...

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Krazysh0t

60 whole seconds of each day isn't much

No it isn't. 5 minutes each day isn't a whole lot either. How about 10 minutes? Not much either. 20 Minutes? How about that? Hardly much out of the school time? And so on and so on. There has to be a line drawn rabbit and that line is drawn at school time. You want your kids to pray to God or Allah or the flying spaghetti monster, do it in your own time. If parents want to send their kids to school to learn in part about god, to the strengthen faith, there are specific religious schools for that.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I'm going to have to disagree with you there. There are plenty of points in the day where nothing is going on for the children. Like when they are all sitting in the classroom before the bell rings and just BSing with their classmates. Not to mention, school isn't even 8 hours long. If a child can't handle the pressures of school in the 5 - 6 hours they are there, what are they going to do when they get to the real world and have to deal with real deadlines? I don't get time to sit and reflect on things when I get to work, unless I get there early. Kids get far more breaks in school (even with the constant pressure you alluded to). There is recess, class changes, lunch, homeroom, some schools have study periods, random holidays like teacher days, snow days that don't have to be made up at the end of the year, only have to go to school for 180 days out of the year, and I can keep going on. Why is this extra 60 seconds even necessary?

Southern Guardian

ketsuko
And what's wrong with letting kids who want to pray in school?

There's nothing wrong with letting kids pray in school during lunch time or break time or just before and after school, nothing wrong with it. However forcing religion as part of the school curriculum is wrong, it's against the constitution and that is not the purpose of public schools. What's wrong with sending your kid to a christian school if you wish to involve your religion in their teachings? Why can't you do that? Nope, you have to force your religion down the throats of the kids of others. I'm sorry but that is total BS.

How is a moment of silence forcing anything on anyone? When I was a kid, I'd use something like that to go over what I had to do that day, just veg out, or think lustful thoughts of the girl sitting ahead of me. Taking a moment to reflect at the beginning of a work day and gathering your thoughts before starting are actually recommended by successful people.


Methinks some people are so prejudiced and paranoid that everything is a religious conspiracy to them.

reply to post by ownbestenemy

I am not sure why you are directing such ire towards my comments

Oh I'll direct ire towards anybody who attempts to force any sort of belief system down the throats of others. And get off the excuse that this is just a brief time of silence, people like you know exactly what this is. It the start of more things to come.

You have christian schools, you have muslim schools. You have time before school, you have time after school. You have the entire weekend. You want to spend a moment of silence, there's ample time outside of that. It's not hard to understand so why you insist otherwise is beyond me.

In some cases, up to eight minutes a day for Muslim students.

Interesting, send me a link for this thanks.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

There has to be a line drawn rabbit and that line is drawn at school time.

School wasn't always about just drilling for tests. It used to be about learning basic balance in life along with social skills and everything else that goes into becoming a well rounded person. Not simply someone statistically likely to achieve graduation on the expected curve.

You want your kids to pray to God or Allah or the flying spaghetti monster, do it in your own time.

You're right, and we have the 1st Amendment for that, incorporated to state level long long ago to apply to all Government. Public schools included. No religion and preaching to a captive audience is a legal theory that doesn't even require one side to be Government for it to apply. Videos show street preachers in California being arrested on this same theory.

A neutral 'use your minute however you want' moment to just slow their little roll and take time off texting and everything else might actually be tough enough at first to fully prove how important I think it actually is, the more I've thought on it.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by ketsuko

 

Poor example. Letting Muslims not have to go to the cafeteria while fasting isn't something that is in the face of people who aren't Muslim. It's not like the school is forcing every student to fast to placate the Muslims. Not to mention lunch time isn't really class time. The example in the OP is taking actual class time meant for studying and learning and devoting it to a religious activity. BIG DIFFERENCE.

It is a major accommodation. Trust me. You have to find a teacher willing to spend his or her union contract given lunch time to stay in the classroom and watch those kids, and they have to be paid for that. And it's solely an accommodation made for faith and no other reason. That means it blows separation of church and state out of the water.

Southern Guardian
reply to post by ownbestenemy

 

I am not sure why you are directing such ire towards my comments

Oh I'll direct ire towards anybody who attempts to force any sort of belief system down the throats of others. And get off the excuse that this is just a brief time of silence, people like you know exactly what this is. It the start of more things to come.

You have christian schools, you have muslim schools. You have time before school, you have time after school. You have the entire weekend. You want to spend a moment of silence, there's ample time outside of that. It's not hard to understand so why you insist otherwise is beyond me.

In some cases, up to eight minutes a day for Muslim students.

Interesting, send me a link for this thanks.

Except we don't have those schools unless we have a lot of extra money above and beyond the money we are forced to pay in taxes for your sanitized default schools.

How about this? Give everyone a voucher to use for the school of their choice. Then, your kids can use the tax money you contribute to go to a secular public school and I can use my tax money to send my kids to a place that teaches kids in line with my beliefs.

Southern Guardian
Oh I'll direct ire towards anybody who attempts to force any sort of belief system down the throats of others. And get off the excuse that this is just a brief time of silence, people like you know exactly what this is. It the start of more things to come.

You don't know me and stop pretending to even begin to know me. People like me; you know nothing of me save what I allow you to know here. Get off your high horse of smarmy false pretenses. What is more to come? I gave you an honest opinion that some of the proposed language (did you even bother to read it or are you getting your rage-porn from the mouths of others?) should be struck out, but that a small period of time, before the school day, does nothing to diminish from the actual day itself.

For instance, some schools have a point where they give the school news over loud speaker; how many kids do you think pay attention to 5 minutes of some pocked face snively kid reading information they have no care about?

You have christian schools, you have muslim schools. You have time before school, you have time after school. You have the entire weekend. You want to spend a moment of silence, there's ample time outside of that. It's not hard to understand so why you insist otherwise is beyond me.

Why is it such a contentious topic for you? Why is a minute set aside to recite the Pledge of Allegiance; there is after all, time for the student to make such a pledge at home, in the car or bus as you put it.

In some cases, up to eight minutes a day for Muslim students.

Here is one...
Here is another about those dreaded Jews too...
School adjusts schedule for a minority group of students...
Here is another...

Interesting that this is being framed as a "Christian" issue or driven claim. Seems that all faiths want to tell the State -- but out and let us practice our faith when and where we wish; as the First Amendment protects it.

Wrabbit2000
A neutral 'use your minute however you want' moment to just slow their little roll and take time off texting and everything else might actually be tough enough at first to fully prove how important I think it actually is, the more I've thought on it.

As a father of three boys; it is amazing how much a mandatory (obviously father imposed) minute can change the day for the better. I find it interesting that there is such a gnashing of the teeth with this; save the part I already pointed out regarding the teacher leading the prayer. Strike that, and it becomes nothing religious at all, but I suspect they will still gnash and gnaw and scream bloody murder from the roof tops that a theocracy is just a stones throw away if this goes through.

Southern Guardian


Oh I'll direct ire towards anybody who attempts to force any sort of belief system down the throats of others.

Like school giving away condoms?

(hee-hee)

beezzer

Southern Guardian


Oh I'll direct ire towards anybody who attempts to force any sort of belief system down the throats of others.

Like school giving away condoms?

(hee-hee)

LOL. Well played, rabbit, well played.

beezzer

Southern Guardian


Oh I'll direct ire towards anybody who attempts to force any sort of belief system down the throats of others.

Like school giving away condoms?

(hee-hee)

This list could be fun, because it would envelope all political aspects.

-- Global Warming as an established science
-- Speech modification by removing "gender stereotypes" and "offensive" words like: Stewardess/Steward; Waiter/Waitress; etc, etc.
-- Education that goes beyond the biological aspects of the human body and reproduction and actually teaches sexual acts

I say we take this to the limit and just see how the Public school system has imposed its "belief" system on such a captive audience -- amazing that the greatest fear here is religion...and not the State...

reply to post by ketsuko


Well if that is the case then you are correct. I just assumed they stood outside the cafeteria or something like they did when I was in high school (graduated 2003). All kids when done eating would stage outside of the cafeteria waiting for the bell to ring at my high school. If they actually keep them in a classroom with a teacher watching them, then that is a different story and needs to be discontinued. I have no remorse for any religious accommodation in school.

reply to post by beezzer


How is a student going to the school nurse in private and asking for a condom shoving anything down anyone's throat? It's a medical issue, handled by a medical professional... behind a closed door.

Personally I have no issue with a moment of silence, it's the teacher lead prayer that I have a problem with. But for a day, I would love to be a teacher in public school in that State. I would light some candles, cast a Circle, summon the four elements and say this Wiccan prayer.

My Goddess I call thee,
Oh Ancient Mother bless this day
I greet this day with anticipation of what it brings
guide me to be Understanding, helpful, kind & aware.
Blessed Be

Everyone good with that?