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EQ Pegasi Hoax, NSA Project 415, Richard Hoagland & Edward Snowden

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posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 01:54 PM
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While researching another post for ATS I came across something interesting in this old hoax case from the 1990s. It caused quite a stir and played out on Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell mainly because of Richard Hoagland (who some suspect may have been behind the hoax). Indeed if you search "EQ Pegasi" Hoagland's site is first.

It even made the front page of BBC News's website and was a story at the top of the hour on News 24:



For those who are unfamiliar with the EQ Pegasi saga the gist of it was this:

A man claiming to be a UK satellite communication's engineer (Paul Dore) who piggybacked a SETI receiving setup one of his company's (Siemens) large satellite communication dishes.

They claimed to be picking up a doppler shifted signal from the star EQ Pegasi and posted a bunch of waterfall plots on a Geocities web page.



The SETI community scrambled to verify his signal.

Someone claimed a radio telescope in Germany had verified the signal and the principle investigator working on a paper to be presented only for the radio observatory in Germany to deny this.

A radio telescope in Australia tried to verify the signal and came up negative.

The SETI Institute itself suspected a hoax but had a look through their data and only found terrestrial interference from stuff like communications satellites, etc.

The person allegedly scheduled a press conference then called it off at the last minute after supposedly being visited by stereotypical "men in black".

The site they maintained then went offline with nothing more than an NSA logo and a bizarre letter alleging government interference which I found on an archive of the now defunct UFO Updates mailing list.



_MYSTERIES FLOURISH IN EQ PEGASI CONTACT CASE_
The EQ Pegasi case exploded into a flurry of charges and counter-charges last
week.

On October 23, 1998, a man calling himself "Paul Dore" posted GIFs on the
Internet which purported to show a strong alien radio signal emanating from
the EQ Pegasi star system, 22 light years (132,000,000,000,000 miles) from
Earth.

Dr. H. Paul Shuch of the SETI League and Dr. Nathan Cohen of Boston University
branded the material a hoax.

On Monday, November 2, John Doe, alias "Paul Dore," hit back at his critics.
"This is assuredly not a hoax," he said, explaining that the similarity of
signals was caused by his own hasty error in posting. "I was so excited I got
onto the Internet on a CLOSED list."

Doe added that "two astronomers at the Effelsberg Radio Observatory" in
Germany had confirmed the "hit" and announced that the three of them would
appear at a news conference on Wednesday "to announce the discovery of
repeating artificial signals from space."

On Friday, October 30, 1998, K.H. Benton, a radio operator living in Castel,
on the Isle of Guernsey, claimed that he, too, had picked up a signal from EQ
Pegasi.

"I am an amateur radio operator on the Isle of Guernsey (UK) offshore from
Normandy," Benton reported. "When I saw the story of the possible SETI
discovery on the BBC, I undertook to see if I could pick the signals up."
Benton used his 4.5 meter dish to scan the 23 centimeter band (1296 Mhz to
1450 Mhz) plus an ICOM 8500 receiver and a SETIFOX program up and running on
his processor.

"At 12:30 UTC, about the time EQ Pegasi rose in the sky, the program began
logging what looked like a faint carrier signal," Benton reported. "If this is
a signal from another star, it is incredibly strong. This would have to be
beamed directly at us as far as I can tell."

Researchers seeking confirmation tried to log onto the website operated by the
Billion-channel Extra-Terrestrial Array (BETA project) in Harvard,
Masschusetts, 25 miles (40 kilometers) west of Boston. They complained that
they could not access the BETA site.

On Monday, November 2, the Max Planck Institut fur Radioastronomie in Bonn,
operators of the Effelsberg Radio Observatory, denied that their astronomers
were using the observatory's 100-meter radio telescope to scan EQ Pegasi.
Institute spokesman Dr. Rolf Schwartz said, "The story circulating that the
MFIfR is involved in observations to confirm a SETI signal is wrong. The MFIfR
is not involved in any SETI project."

Unaware of this, Doe posted a new message, saying, "At noon, I received a call
from the two astronomers stating that they would not be with me at the press
conference and that I was 'essentially on my own.' 'Fine, then,' I replied,
and then apologized and hung up."

"Next, my supervisor rang me up to tell me that I was to cease my experiment
immediately," he added, "This was quite strange because he had been supportive
ever since the news broke."

Arriving home at 7 p.m., he claimed to have found "three gentlemen in my
residence. My wife Helen had the look of sheer terror in her eyes. It turns
out one of them was from the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) at
Cheltenham, and the other was from RAF Feltwell, and the third from the
American National Security Agency (NSA) They asked if we could speak in
private."

"Over the course of nearly two hours they explained to me that what I had
discovered was not extraterrestrial in nature but was" in actuality an
intelligence-gathering satellite "with something known as Project 415."
Doe claimed that the men compelled him "to sign a security oath...which stated
that should I further describe any details on this subject I will be subect to
prosecution under the terms of the Official Secrets Act."

No sooner had this statement appeared than the real Paul Dore emerged,
claiming that Doe had "stolen my resume from my website" which "had been
inactive for the past two and a half years."

According to the Boston Globe, "The perpetrator made most of his claims
anonymously but then was tentatively identified by SETI researchers as an
engineer named Paul Dore; an anonymous resume he had posted was identified as
Dore's through an on-line search."

Dr. Shuch said that "he had just heard from the real Paul Dore and is now
convinced that he is not the perpetrator. Apparently, whoever was playing the
hoax had simply used and altered Dore's resume."

"He's a decent guy, and he has nothing to do with this," Dr. Shuch said.
"'It has all the earmarks of a hoax,' said Darren Leigh, a radio astronomer
who operates one of the largest such search efforts in the world today, the
BETA project...Nevertheless, Leigh said, the 84-foot dish of the Oak Ridge
Observatory's BETA telescope was trained on the region of the sky where the
signal had been claimed, just to be sure. And there's nothing there."
The Wednesday press conference was abruptly cancelled.

On Wednesay, November 4, people trying to access the EQ Pegasi website "found
a National Security Agency logo" filling the screen.

Peter A. Gersten of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) telephoned NSA
.quarters at Fort Meade, Maryland and spoke to Vanessa Taliery of the
agency's public relations department.

Gersten reported that Taliery had told him that "anyone can download the NSA
seal and emblem and place them on a site." He said Taliery "seemed unaware of
the story" that was burning up the Internet.

Speculation about the EQ Pegasi signal continues to spur a fiery debate. (See
the Boston Globe for November 4, 1998, "Earthlings say: Not so fast," page
A-10)


(cont)
edit on 5-1-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 02:02 PM
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its a friendly signal.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 02:13 PM
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Richard Hoagland of course had his own take on the EQ Pegasi saga which included mysticism, "sacred geometry", "hyperdimensional physics" and a mile long starship on its way to a landing he predicted (using "reverse speech") would take place on December 7, 1998 on an Arizona plateau.

Which of course didn't happen. See Skeptoid.com's excellent article: By the Time the Aliens Don’t Get to Arizona

Here's an excerpt.


Hoagland made a startling, and totally unsupportable, claim: that the “signal” wasn’t from EQ Pegasi, but from an alien probe on a direct course for Earth. As Hoagland breathlessly recounted on his website:

That same evening, TEM principal investigator Richard Hoagland went on the Art Bell Radio program to discuss the reports. He argued that the signal was most likely not coming from EQ Pegasi, but rather from a point in space nearby, perhaps as close as ten billion miles out. He predicted that the signal was in fact coming from a “probe” that would soon begin to decelerate. Only two days later a Japanese amateur astronomer reported picking up the signal and indicated that it was indeed slowing down. Based on inside “Pentagon sources”, Hoagland also expected a landing in the American Southwest on or about December 7th.

Where the Japanese astronomer, December 7th or the idea of a probe came from is anyone’s guess. But Dore had now been called wrong by both Hoagland and SETI, and his story was starting to fall apart. Further compounding his ills was the BBC retracting its story on November 3rd, declaring the “signal” to most certainly be a hoax, and featuring a quote proclaiming SETI had been set back 100 years in their credibility. Dore struck back by scheduling a press conference for the 4th, which he promptly cancelled. Instead he sent out a bizarre, rambling email alleging that the astronomers who’d agreed to back up his claims had sold him out, and that government agents had come to his house to inform him that he’d stumbled on a “classified intelligence satellite” belonging to the ominously named “Project 415.” Dore declared he wasn’t pursuing the matter any further, and soon dropped out of sight.

One might assume that the story would end here, with Dore disappearing from public view after being exposed as either a hoaxer or totally wrong. But in the world of fringe pseudoscience, nothing disappears, it only takes on new conspirators. Hoagland doubled down on his theory over the next month, tying it in with, among other entities, the Clinton Administration, several NASA satellites, the Hubble Telescope, FEMA, Egyptian mythology, the International Space Station, Denver International Airport, John Glenn, South Park, the Taurid Meteor Storm and Mobil Oil. All along, Hoagland pointed toward a December 7th landing in the area of Turret Peak, Arizona, backed up by information from “three separate sources” in US intelligence, as well as Hoagland’s work in decoding NASA/Egyptian rituals. Simultaneously, he used long-debunked “reverse speech” techniques to dissect Dore’s email and discredit him as a military-industrial complex stooge. Hoagland’s entire archive on the story can be found here, and it’s a fascinating read, if you have a couple of days.

When December 7th arrived, Hoagland posted numerous “landing site updates” detailing “military activity” and strange weather. All the while, he stuck to the information provided by his most secret sources. But the only thing that the 7th brought was an unusually heavy snowstorm, not an alien probe or a landing. The storm was evidence enough for Hoagland to craft a new theory: that the Turret Peak landing was actually an electromagnetic pulse discharge set off by the US Government, given cover by a snowstorm created by HAARP, and meant as a test of some kind of weapon system…or something. It’s complicated.

After the “landing” fizzled out, the EQ Pegasi story faded into the nether reaches of the internet. Dore’s website rests on a long-dead GeoCities page, many of the other pieces written about the signal vanished years ago, and little has been written or said about it since. There was quite a bit of speculation at the time that Paul Dore wasn’t even a real person, and a Google search for him turns up only a few items about the EQ Pegasi story, and nothing recent. SETI distanced itself from the debacle, and continues its search for intelligent life. Hoagland moved on from Pegasi to other equally lofty space-based conspiracies. Whether Dore detected a signal at all is debatable, and if so, it was most likely an ordinary satellite, not anything classified, and certainly not anything alien.

So we know that aliens didn’t land in Turret Peak, Arizona, on December 7th, 1998. But we still don’t know what the EQ Pegasi signal was, or if it existed. We don’t know if Paul Dore was a well-intentioned, over-enthusiastic watcher of the stars who did the wrong thing for the right reason, or if he was a crank whose hoax got away from him. Until Dore, whoever he is, comes forward, we won’t ever know for sure.

And it doesn’t really matter. Hoax or not, the story of the EQ Pegasi “signal” speaks to us desperately needing to know our place in the universe, and latching on to anything that might tell us we’re not alone. Either Dore deliberately misled SETI or jumped to a conclusion he wanted to be true, but no matter what, the media and public wanted to believe that contact had been made, and proceeded accordingly. We didn’t, this time. But we might, tomorrow or in a thousand years.

And when we do, we’d do well not to believe everything we read about it on the internet.


Of course some New Age believers from Sedona made the trek and froze their butts off waiting for the aliens to land but that's beside the point...

Aliens from EQ Pegasi was always a bit of a silly premise for the same reason aliens from "The Pleiades" is. The two stars (EQ Pegasi is a binary system) are just too young. See "A Pair of Stellar Newborns Shine Brightly" - Scientific American

So most people just kinda chalk the whole thing up to an elaborate hoax which fooled some big news organizations including the BBC, CNN, Boston Globe and briefly mobilized the SETI community.

But in light of recent disclosures by Edward Snowden of the NSA's wide ranging domestic surveillance program one thing jumped out. Project 415

When looking into what "Project 415" was it turns out to have been the top secret codename for the umbrella of the programs Snowden exposed.

So the question then becomes, was the whole EQ Pegasi hoax an early attempt to expose the NSA's program or was it an attempt on the part of an agency to discredit any mention of such programs in the press by wrapping them up within a well publicized "alien hoax" ala Mirage Men?

If it is the latter then it would appear that Richard Hoagland either has been given the "Doty treatment" by Doty or someone else in the same capacity OR Hoagland himself is a willing participant in spreading disinformation.

Given the sophistication of this hoax it's worth examining possible motives as the same people are likely still at work.
edit on 5-1-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 02:43 PM
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OR Hoagland himself is a willing participant in spreading disinformation.


You don't say…

Kinda makes you wonder why he keeps saying comets are alien space ships now though dun nit?



----

Is there a post-Snowden leak reference to project 415 though?
edit on 5-1-2014 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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boncho



OR Hoagland himself is a willing participant in spreading disinformation.


You don't say…

Kinda makes you wonder why he keeps saying comets are alien space ships now though dun nit?


And he's managed to convince enough people that they are so that every bright comet like ISON has doom porn attached to it.

And they then frequent UFO sites/conventions almost preaching about how Comet Elenin means "Extinction Level Event" or how Hale-Bopp has a companion spaceship (which a bunch of poor souls killed themselves over in the Heavens Gate saga) or how Comet ISON is going to hit the Earth and fulfill the Mayan Prophecy a year late, thus dragging down the whole subject of UFOS because they are so entrenched in the "UFO community" now.
edit on 5-1-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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JadeStar
When looking into what "Project 415" was it turns out to have been the top secret codename for the umbrella of the programs Snowden exposed. ...

So the question then becomes, was the whole EQ Pegasi hoax an early attempt to expose the NSA's program or was it an attempt on the part of an agency to discredit any mention of such programs by wrapping it up within an "alien hoax" ala Mirage Men?

If it is the latter then it would appear that Richard Hoagland either has been given the "Doty treatment" by him or someone else in the same capacity OR Hoagland himself is a willing participant in spreading disinformation.

I hadn't heard anything about it, thanks for bringing it up.

I googled it and came across a cryptome page with lots of material going back to the 70s, which I'm sure you already have checked out. Prominently displayed on that page is an article from August 1988 in the New Statesman English magazine, which already references the codename Project 415 (or Project P415), and has this quote citing an earlier article from 1980


The largest overseas station in the Project P415 network is the US satellite and communications base at Menwith Hill. near Harrogate in Yorkshire. It is run undercover by the NSA and taps into all Britain's main national and international communications networks (New Statesman, 7 August 1980).

I wasn't able to find the 1980 article so it's not immediately apparent if they also cited the codename back then or if they just mentioned the the NSA was already running a base to monitor communications over there.

I don't know if it's entirely accurate to say Project 415 was the codename for the projects that Snowden exposed because this appears to have been a much older program, one that predates the internet, although it certainly might have been the predecessor to much of what is in place now since the objectives (intercepting all communications) are pretty much the same.

In any case, it appears the codename Project 415 was already out there before the EQ Pegasi story, so they weren't leaking the codename. Still, it could have been an attempt by someone to bring more light to the project and expose it some way. Someone sure seemed to have wanted people to think the NSA was involved.

I always thought of Hoagland as a John Lear-esque character. Maybe I'm wrong in my estimation but that's always the feeling I got from Hoagland.

I don't really have an opinion on which of the possibilities you propose is more likely, but this is very interesting (and confusing, as almost always is) information, JadeStar! Thank you.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 02:56 PM
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I'd just like to add to this conversation a thought....

Can nobody simply take in information without believing one way or the other? Without a preconceived notion or conviction?

Simple fact is, we don't know what the EQ Pegasi signal is or was. We don't know anything more about this Paul Dore person, or the person assuming that identity. We know nothing really about Project 415, or about the NSA's involvement, or Hoagland's involvement (other than the fact that he made claims which turned out to be false)....

But yet, it appears that everyone is ready to form a decision.

Right. Off. The. Bat.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 02:57 PM
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Whoever made this LMAO... genius..



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 03:08 PM
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vbstrvct

JadeStar

I googled it and came across a cryptome page with lots of material going back to the 70s, which I'm sure you already have checked out. Prominently displayed on that page is an article from August 1988 in the New Statesman English magazine, which already references the codename Project 415 (or Project P415), and has this quote citing an earlier article from 1980


The largest overseas station in the Project P415 network is the US satellite and communications base at Menwith Hill. near Harrogate in Yorkshire. It is run undercover by the NSA and taps into all Britain's main national and international communications networks (New Statesman, 7 August 1980).

I wasn't able to find the 1980 article so it's not immediately apparent if they also cited the codename back then or if they just mentioned the the NSA was already running a base to monitor communications over there.

I don't know if it's entirely accurate to say Project 415 was the codename for the projects that Snowden exposed because this appears to have been a much older program, one that predates the internet, although it certainly might have been the predecessor to much of what is in place now since the objectives (intercepting all communications) are pretty much the same.


Yes, rather than umbrella, predecessor makes more sense but one thing that jumps out of that is the connection to Britain (the alleged Paul Dore was from Britain, the real Paul Dore was from Britain) and the whole thing played out in Britain. While it's not surprising that the US and UK collaborate on projects like this it is interesting that this hoax seems to have its origins in Britain yet also seems to involve Richard Hoagland. Which makes me wonder what the connection between he and intelligence on either side of the ocean might be....



In any case, it appears the codename Project 415 was already out there before the EQ Pegasi story, so they weren't leaking the codename. Still, it could have been an attempt by someone to bring more light to the project and expose it some way. Someone sure seemed to have wanted people to think the NSA was involved.


Exactly. Someone wanted to expose the NSA eavesdropping program, at least a little bit either to expose it or discredit it with the alien signal hoax.



I always thought of Hoagland as a John Lear-esque character. Maybe I'm wrong in my estimation but that's always the feeling I got from Hoagland.


He comes across kind of the same way. He makes some absolutely ridiculous statements which a certain segment of the conspiracy/UFO crowd take seriously and spread via the internet to the point where they are considered givens. ie: "Ancient civilization on Mars" "Core Story' etc.

pquote]
I don't really have an opinion on which of the possibilities you propose is more likely, but this is very interesting (and confusing, as almost always is) information, JadeStar! Thank you.


You're welcome. Like I said, i was researching another post i am working on with regards to how SETI and UFOlogy have dealt with hoaxes and other challenges in much different ways which lead to different perceptions of them among the populace.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 03:08 PM
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zeroBelief
Simple fact is, we don't know what the EQ Pegasi signal is or was. We don't know anything more about this Paul Dore person, or the person assuming that identity. We know nothing really about Project 415, or about the NSA's involvement, or Hoagland's involvement (other than the fact that he made claims which turned out to be false)....

I'm with you.


But yet, it appears that everyone is ready to form a decision.

Wait, what? Who is ready to form a decision?

If you're referring to my post, I merely talked about likely possibilities based on extrapolations from other cases. Possibilities, even ones we find more likely, can obviously be absolutely wrong.

I didn't suggest anyone form any decision. And I didn't interpret Jade's posts to imply that either.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 03:11 PM
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I got to tell you that when I read the .line i clearly jumped to conclusions. Here I thought you were going to drop a revelation on which countries secret service Edward Snowden really worked/works for.

I'm not opposed to the leaks mind you but I still have a sneaky suspicion that There's more to Snowden and the story than meets the eye.

So on topic; that's quite the connection you are putting together. I don't neccesarily see it but its worth pondering.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 03:14 PM
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zeroBelief
I'd just like to add to this conversation a thought....

Can nobody simply take in information without believing one way or the other? Without a preconceived notion or conviction?

Simple fact is, we don't know what the EQ Pegasi signal is or was. We don't know anything more about this Paul Dore person, or the person assuming that identity. We know nothing really about Project 415, or about the NSA's involvement, or Hoagland's involvement (other than the fact that he made claims which turned out to be false)....

But yet, it appears that everyone is ready to form a decision.

Right. Off. The. Bat.


Hoagland has talked out his ass so many times we can say without a doubt he is either the most ignorant idiot savant in the world, OR…. he purposely spreads BS for an alternative purpose. Whether he does so for albeit very little fame & monetary gain, or he is encouraged by someone to deflect away from something else, remains a little cloudy.

However, mention of the "project" in some recent documentation would give a little bite to the story.

In either case, Hoagland still remains "Hoaxland" to all who have had the unfortunate experience of reading what he disseminates.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 03:17 PM
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vbstrvct

zeroBelief
Simple fact is, we don't know what the EQ Pegasi signal is or was. We don't know anything more about this Paul Dore person, or the person assuming that identity. We know nothing really about Project 415, or about the NSA's involvement, or Hoagland's involvement (other than the fact that he made claims which turned out to be false)....

I'm with you.


But yet, it appears that everyone is ready to form a decision.

Wait, what? Who is ready to form a decision?

If you're referring to my post, I merely talked about likely possibilities based on extrapolations from other cases. Possibilities, even ones we find more likely, can obviously be absolutely wrong.

I didn't suggest anyone form any decision. And I didn't interpret Jade's posts to imply that either.



Nope, I wasn't accusing you of anything. Actually, we must have been writing our posts at about the same time, as I only have just now read it.

My statements were with regards to the OP, and others...as well as most everyone else here on ATS...who seem to be SO ready to jump to a conclusion.

Aliens are a joke. You'd be CRAZY to BELIEVE!!!

Aliens made me my comforter and it keeps me warm. I BELIEVE!!!


Me, personally?

Put my rear end on a UFO. Let me engage in a sexual encounter with an actual alien. Show me verifiable proof that I was not drugged or somehow hallucinating, and then I *might* believe it.

But, you know, that's just me




posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 03:21 PM
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vbstrvct

zeroBelief
Simple fact is, we don't know what the EQ Pegasi signal is or was. We don't know anything more about this Paul Dore person, or the person assuming that identity. We know nothing really about Project 415, or about the NSA's involvement, or Hoagland's involvement (other than the fact that he made claims which turned out to be false)....

I'm with you.


But yet, it appears that everyone is ready to form a decision.

Wait, what? Who is ready to form a decision?

If you're referring to my post, I merely talked about likely possibilities based on extrapolations from other cases. Possibilities, even ones we find more likely, can obviously be absolutely wrong.

I didn't suggest anyone form any decision. And I didn't interpret Jade's posts to imply that either.


Exactly. My reason for posting this was to raise the questions not to rush to a judgement. The "signal" if it ever existed at all, did turn out to most likely be a hoax or misidentification by the way.
edit on 5-1-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 03:21 PM
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boncho

zeroBelief
I'd just like to add to this conversation a thought....

Can nobody simply take in information without believing one way or the other? Without a preconceived notion or conviction?

Simple fact is, we don't know what the EQ Pegasi signal is or was. We don't know anything more about this Paul Dore person, or the person assuming that identity. We know nothing really about Project 415, or about the NSA's involvement, or Hoagland's involvement (other than the fact that he made claims which turned out to be false)....

But yet, it appears that everyone is ready to form a decision.

Right. Off. The. Bat.


Hoagland has talked out his ass so many times we can say without a doubt he is either the most ignorant idiot savant in the world, OR…. he purposely spreads BS for an alternative purpose. Whether he does so for albeit very little fame & monetary gain, or he is encouraged by someone to deflect away from something else, remains a little cloudy.

However, mention of the "project" in some recent documentation would give a little bite to the story.

In either case, Hoagland still remains "Hoaxland" to all who have had the unfortunate experience of reading what he disseminates.



You' really come across to me as being interested in casting your own personal edicts....

Personally, I'm reserving judgement. Actually, I may even go so far as to not make a judgement at all. I am all too cognizant as to the fact that there are far too many things out there that I simply am unaware of.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 03:31 PM
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JadeStar

vbstrvct

zeroBelief
Simple fact is, we don't know what the EQ Pegasi signal is or was. We don't know anything more about this Paul Dore person, or the person assuming that identity. We know nothing really about Project 415, or about the NSA's involvement, or Hoagland's involvement (other than the fact that he made claims which turned out to be false)....

I'm with you.


But yet, it appears that everyone is ready to form a decision.

Wait, what? Who is ready to form a decision?

If you're referring to my post, I merely talked about likely possibilities based on extrapolations from other cases. Possibilities, even ones we find more likely, can obviously be absolutely wrong.

I didn't suggest anyone form any decision. And I didn't interpret Jade's posts to imply that either.


Exactly. My reason for posting this was to raise the questions not to rush to a judgement. The "signal" if it ever existed at all, did turn out to most likely be a hoax or misidentification by the way.
edit on 5-1-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)



JadeStar, if I mistook you, I apologize...but let me show you what you wrote that made me think you were agreeing overall with the article, and that although you're looking for some form of closure regarding the signal and Project 415, you were still drawing conclusions....Here's snippet #1...


Richard Hoagland of course had his own take on the EQ Pegasi saga which included mysticism, "sacred geometry", "hyperdimensional physics" and a mile long starship on its way to a landing he predicted (using "reverse speech") would take place on December 7, 1998 on an Arizona plateau. Which of course didn't happen. See Skeptoid.com's excellent article: By the Time the Aliens Don’t Get to Arizona Here's an excerpt.



Sorry, but my take on your statement above is that at worst we know Hoagland is a liar, and at best, he was unaware of the "Universal X Widget" that the EQ Pegasi folks left at home which prevented them from showing up. That's all I can say about Hoagland from what has been presented. When you followed through with an article from "Skeptoid" you were using it to support your approach and theories. Weren't you?

And then there's snippet #2...


So the question then becomes, was the whole EQ Pegasi hoax an early attempt to expose the NSA's program or was it an attempt on the part of an agency to discredit any mention of such programs in the press by wrapping them up within a well publicized "alien hoax" ala Mirage Men?



I think everything you said above states my case.

All I'm saying is, in truth, we can only speculate.

Healthy skepticism is just that, healthy. Much like anything else, including water and oxygen, it can become unhealthy, pretty darned quick.

That was the intent of my post.
edit on 5-1-2014 by zeroBelief because: Damned BBCode....



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by zeroBelief
 

I suspect we're much more in agreement than our initial responses probably seem.

I can't speak for JadeStar but I'm almost certain the sentiment is similar.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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vbstrvct
reply to post by zeroBelief
 

I suspect we're much more in agreement than our initial responses probably seem.

I can't speak for JadeStar but I'm almost certain the sentiment is similar.



That, I feel pretty secure in



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by JadeStar
 


Back about the time of the EQ Pegasi hoax, either before or after, I can't remember, there was another hoax that didn't get very far because I exposed it early on. The hoaxer was a brilliant artist and computer graphic whiz of some sort in Oregon state, I believe. His story had it that the radio telescope of the (non-existent)University of Indianapolis (in Indiana) had picked up alien signals. Well done screen shots of tech graphs from that university's recording devices clearly indicated that something intelligent was sending out signals.

If you went to his links for the University of Indianapolis, you found an innocent looking home page and a bunch of icons for various aspects of a normal university. Thhe whole package ooked legitimate, except there was nothing there! There wasn't even a university by that name in Indiana. It was all part of an elaborate hoax. It was later understood by some of us that the two hoaxes were by the same instigator.

If this throws cold water on this business that something more is behind and around the EQ Pegasi hoax, I can't say as I'm not inclined to delve into the affair at this stage.



posted on Jan, 5 2014 @ 03:54 PM
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zeroBelief

vbstrvct
reply to post by zeroBelief
 

I suspect we're much more in agreement than our initial responses probably seem.

I can't speak for JadeStar but I'm almost certain the sentiment is similar.



That, I feel pretty secure in


I concur. We're pretty much in agreement. Differences are stylistic.




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