Meet the New Messiah, Son of Jesus

reply to post by Utnapisjtim

So what you are basically saying is that every Christian is a king of kings and rule the nations with iron scepters?

No, at no point did I say that. It is obvious you overlooked the OT.

The text says He who overcomes, not they or you who overcome.

This refers to each individual that does so and not a group doing so.

Rev. 12:5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. How can you make yourself believe that this child is every Christian?

You are now mixing an apple with and orange. Refer to Rev. 3:20-21 and see if it refers to just one person or more than one. You will also do well if you continue to read the rest of the chapter. Verse 11 should help to make things clearer for you. You have Christ and those that overcome. who are the they? You will need to read Gen., Jer., Isa. and Ezk. and not just Rev.

Please show continuity between the OT and NT regarding your position and not just Rev. 2&3 that refer to the churches and thinking it is talking about just one person.

I will go no further with you in this regard, it is up to you to study both the OT and the NT as they are not two different books but only one and is continuous from Gen. to Rev.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


one of my favourite passages from the Bible ,

and Jesus is back , .... ask the Pope .

also the white horse is here , in a safe place
waiting for the day .

pstrron
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

So what you are basically saying is that every Christian is a king of kings and rule the nations with iron scepters?

No, at no point did I say that. It is obvious you overlooked the OT.

Oh, did I? You said that "He who overcometh" refers to "everyone who does so", which is absurd in itself. How do you explain the following:

Rev. 2:26 To him who overcomes ("each individual that does so and not a group doing so" to you) and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations-- 27 'He will rule them with an iron scepter; he will dash them to pieces like pottery -- just as I have received authority from my Father. 28 I will also give him the morning star.

How can all the survivors be born when Venus rises with the Sun in the East, rule the nations, i.e. planet Earth, with an iron scepter and smash them to pieces like pottery? Are you refering to the OT story when Israelites break pottery before entering battle? These people are all dead, thus their names are deleted from the Book of Life, they have not eaten from the Tree of Life and none of them were or are ruling any nation, let alone all the nations on Earth. Talking about mixing apples and oranges.

Jesus doesn't have a son, I think the trinity has you bamboozled, it's a confusing doctrine.
But Almighty God does have a Son, and he is different and he is ranked as a god because of his power, but then again so is Satan.

John 1:18

No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.

2 Corinthians 4:4a

among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers

The Dictionary says this
only-begotten
adj
Archaic (of a child) being the only offspring of its father

You can't beget a son and be that person too, Jesus is the created Son of the Almighty God.

Blue_Jay33
Jesus doesn't have a son, I think the trinity has you bamboozled, it's a confusing doctrine.
But Almighty God does have a Son, and he is different and he is ranked as a god because of his power, but then again so is Satan.

How do you explain the following. The narrative starts with John witnessing the speeker identifying himself as God reveiling his victorious son's testament, the Word of Jesus, the Word of God:

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

The speeker identifies himself a bit further down the road:

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The narrator here is jesus, and pay attention to the phrase 'He that overcometh'. The same phrase is repeated seven times in in the second and third chapters of the Apocalypse in the seven letters to the seven churches, I'll come back to that later in this post.

The word KJV translates "overcometh" is the Koine Greek word "nikao" and it means 'to conquer' or to be more specific 'to be victorious', in context: 'He (3rd person sing.) who wins (Gr. 'νικῶν') shall inherit all things".

Accnowledgement: Jesus is the God of the Apocalypse, the Alfa and Omega and Father of this Victorious Word of God, i.e. Word of Jesus, "He who overcometh" who is the Sole Heir and Messiah of God, with the same power Jesus inherited from his Father.

Jesus tells John to write letters to each of the seven patrons of the seven churches:

Revelation 2:7 [...] To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11 [...] He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2:17 [...] To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written , which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh , and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers : even as I received of my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh , the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame , and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Now understand the bold character as one person, the victorious Word of God, and compare him with the guy in the following verses:

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened , and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war . 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written , that no man knew , but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written , KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

It's the same guy of whom Jesus declares: I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


looks like we have a usurper wannabe...

its not enough the world has been waiting for 2,000 years in vain for an empty promise that can't ever be fulfilled, every now and then a pretender comes along wanting to lord it over the gullible

It's the same guy of whom Jesus declares: I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him (Jesus), "My Lord and my GOD!"'

So....erm....what now? Thomas was a doubter, and was given physical evidence (according to orthodox Christian scriptures and orthodox Christian belief), and reached above said conclusion. What exactly did he overcome that didn't require faith?

John 20:29: Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Not sure what you are trying to turn Jesus or any of His disciples (past, present or future,) into.
Smell me I'm wrong but you whiff of heresy.

reject
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

looks like we have a usurper wannabe...

its not enough the world has been waiting for 2,000 years in vain for an empty promise that can't ever be fulfilled, every now and then a pretender comes along wanting to lord it over the gullible

You live like a god with all the technology in the world, letting you fly from continent to continent in mere hours and speak to people on the other side of the Earth in an instant, and you're waiting for what? Glad I didn't have to pick a present for you this Christmas, you have been given nearly everything Jesus promised, and you didn't even notice?

Lucius Driftwood
Not sure what you are trying to turn Jesus or any of His disciples (past, present or future,) into.
Smell me I'm wrong but you whiff of heresy.

I'm trying to tell you that Jesus has a son, not billions of children like Babylon (the Church) would tell you, but a son. A sole Heir to his riches. A crown prince to the Throne of the Messiah. Jesus is leveling up. Leaves his spot empty. His son rises to the challenge.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


he didn't promise technology...he promised he would return even before the last of the 12 died.

That's the most basic tenet of Christianity.

You're just trying to insert some faker into all this.

You've already got a person in mind, right?

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


If you believe that Jesus was God incarnate, it should not be a difficult interpretation and you would not post this grave misunderstanding which you are attempting to possibly confuse those who do not know.

You know if we speak of ourselves in 3rd person it is considered conceited in a way, but we have here, God incarnate speaking of himself which he also is referred to as the "Son of Man" (Jesus) as mankind was made in his Image, it can cause confusion if you do not reconcile that God sent Jesus representing him in the flesh to redeem what the first Adam lost in the garden of Eden.

Now this is my interpretation, I hope that will help, and also before there are the multitude of replies that Jesus did not exist etc, I am only helping the OP clear up his error in understanding, so please try not to throw your opinion at my post, I have heard all of that before and do not believe it.

All 3 of the predominant faiths do attest to the existence of the real figure Jesus, you would have to repudiate this as a so called myth across 3 religions not just Christianity, the problem that has to be reconciled is whether this real figure was God, that is the problem of the 3 religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam)
Which the main point of contention is whether one man or god could die and forgive you for your sin, or whether no other person can do this except you, through your own works and deeds will you be judged, not by only believing in Christ, thus we have what most call the antichrist spirit, because they do not believe in Christ as God incarnate.
As you know that both Judaism and Islam do not agree that Jesus was the Messiah, but they do acknowledge his physical existence, but we won't go down the road where the letter J may have come from, another can of worms would be opened.

The messiah is the one who will win in Gods name against those trying to abolish God.
It was a thought, a hope, a prediction, a warning, a tool, a way to ensure gods followers choose their own leader.
It was possibly used as a way of highlighting to the people that a better way exists than what we are living. That now the messiah had come and you must listen as we have been telling you.

don't listen for trumpets but the message. usually false for own benefit and not gods.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ‘sons’ of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ‘brothers.’ (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers’ of Jesus are referred to as “sons of God.”

Blue_Jay33
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ‘sons’ of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ‘brothers.’ (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers’ of Jesus are referred to as “sons of God.”

Again, there is no mention of any plural sons in Revelation, but the singular Son of God, the whole Apocalypse of John is about him. That Certain Sunday school Christians have grown up believing they are such christs or words of God, bending steel rods and making friends on the other side seeing selfish love as the City of God is fine by me, but it doesn't make sense and it's not what it's about. One day the Cubus Christi will stand rock solid on Earth, and there is only One King in the Kingdom of Heaven, that King is the Messiah, and that is "the one who overcometh". Jesus speeks of him, saying:

Matthew 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together , Jesus asked them, 42 Saying , What think ye of Christ? whose son is he ? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying , 44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool ? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? 46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

I'll tell you whose son he is, he is the Son of Jesus.

reply to post by phinubian


No need to go all ad hominem and play the guilt card. If anyone should feel guilty for having led people astray it's people who say anyone can be little messiahs running around smashing pottery and have people kiss their butts. Like I said it's fine by me, but when the real slim shady turns up, it's not gonna be nice.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


The Pulpit Commentary on Matthew 22:44 says this....

Verse 44. - The Lord said unto my Lord (Psalm 110:1). The quotation is from the Septuagint. But neither this nor our English Version is an adequate rendering of the original, where the word translated "Lord" is not the same in both parts of the clause, More accurately, the solemn beginning of the psalm is thus given: "Utterance [or, 'oracle'] of Jehovah to my Lord (Adonai)."

The Divine Name King James bible makes it easier to understand too.

The LORD( Jehovah Psa 110:1 ) said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Now you have the proper understanding of who the 2 Lords are, actually one is God Almighty the other is Jesus.

Blue_Jay33

The LORD( Jehovah Psa 110:1 ) said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Now you have the proper understanding of who the 2 Lords are, actually one is God Almighty the other is Jesus.

It's irrellevant, and you don't understand what Jesus says here. The question Jesus asks rhetorically is how can David call his supposed son Lord. Get it?

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


If his biological offspring is God's son he would be David's Lord, that's how.
A heavenly king outranks an earthly king it really is that simple.

Blue_Jay33
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

If his biological offspring is God's son he would be David's Lord, that's how.
A heavenly king outranks an earthly king it really is that simple.

I Judaism all firstborns and any righteous married man is a son of God. Read Deuteronomy 14:

1 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead . 2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

The Pharicees &al claimed Jesus was a Samaritan (John 8:48), i.e. a foreigner, NOT a Jew, and hence their denying him being a son of God, understood: Not a Jew and not a heir to Abraham's. Further reading of the same passage, you also see other things they said to discredit him, that he's a drunk and posessed by evil spirits.

So what's new?