UK Moving Backwards: Half a Century of Social Progress Reversed in Last Decade

reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse


by 'immigration' do you mean the Windrush immigration in the late 1940s? Do you mean the Indian and Pakistani immigration in the 1960s and 70s?

reply to post by knownothing


The mass immigration of the last 20 years.

SearchLightsInc
Makes me wonder what the solution to all of this actually is?



Anyone?

Magna Carta V.2 would be my choice .

New understanding between those who claim to own all resources and those who enjoy the benefits & priviledges .

That is what is required imho .

City of London needs to change and Treasury needs to incorporate Digitial Technologies for the common good of ALL people in the UK .

A Digital Revolution , spearheaded by Bank Of England ought to create an athmosphere of abundance & plenty .

Digitocracy & Digitism as oppose to Democracy & Corporatism .

That is how this mess could be sorted out in a nutshell .

Freeborn
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

I've repeatedly stated my belief that Cameron's long term intentions are to take us back to a Victorian like society and all the social injustices and inequalities that go with it.

But without the moral collective responsibilities (if priggish, but it was there) which also accompanied that age. And without the profits from the overseas colonies.

symptomoftheuniverse

iRoyalty
reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse

 

For what? I was on your side and you bit my head off!

If you don't want to be taken seriously then that's fine, your doing a good job of it.

for getting it all wrong when you talk about my prejudices and for trolling. You were wrong but i will not expect you to admit it.

Really? Because I have agreed with you on your points. I think that on that front you think quite similarly to me... Until you said I was like one of the people who didn't accuse asian men of pedophilia... The fact that you read that paper is also a pretty bad sign... You haven't really given me a lot to go on showing that your a cultured man who doesn't judge people on race, also you seem like a very angry man which is also negative points. Which takes me back to my original statement, you don't do a good job at not appearing racist, I offered you some advise to rectify that since you seem mega offended at being called prejudice and you threw it back in my face.

An old saying from my grandfather when he saw us slipping and losing social status or progress, he'd say " Your going backwards all the time" what he meant was we couldn't always ourselves sliding backwards but the outside observer has no problem recognizing it.

I think people are gettign hung up on some Machiavellian reason for immigration. It has two main reasons, both of which are economic.

1; the ageing populaiton needs an influx of young workers for the next couple of decades. Forget money, think in terms of labour hours. More and more labour will be needed to care for the infirm, while the number of workers making food, providing care, buiding houses etc is steadily falling. You need a low ratio of non workers to workers, only so many non workers can be supported. Even taking into account an increase in productivity in manufacturing, you stll need a big majority working. We can all work until we are 75 or live with immigration.

2: We don't have to pay for the education and childhood support of immigrants who turn up as adults. Basically you've chopped 18 years of dependancy off a workers existence. So instead of 18 plus 18 years being supported (adding in retirement) it's halved.

The British had enough of the unions after what went on the seventies. It abused the system, and some big companies went under due to strike action. British Leyland, for example. The whole system was being messed up by a few power crazed union leaders whipping up trouble.

Govts are fixated on the economics, to the point where things like social unrest get sidelined.

iRoyalty

symptomoftheuniverse

iRoyalty
reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse

 

For what? I was on your side and you bit my head off!

If you don't want to be taken seriously then that's fine, your doing a good job of it.

for getting it all wrong when you talk about my prejudices and for trolling. You were wrong but i will not expect you to admit it.

Really? Because I have agreed with you on your points. I think that on that front you think quite similarly to me... Until you said I was like one of the people who didn't accuse asian men of pedophilia... The fact that you read that paper is also a pretty bad sign... You haven't really given me a lot to go on showing that your a cultured man who doesn't judge people on race, also you seem like a very angry man which is also negative points. Which takes me back to my original statement, you don't do a good job at not appearing racist, I offered you some advise to rectify that since you seem mega offended at being called prejudice and you threw it back in my face.

edit on 20-12-2013 by iRoyalty because: (no reason given)

you are something else you realy are. How dare you..learn to read if your going to read between the lines. The people who tried to save those poor little girls,some as young as 11,were subjected to people like you,calling them racist. You are a slanderer and you do not care.

reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse


Hmm ok.. I'm going to leave to it, I only offered you some advice, I can't believe you blew it out the water like this.

Peace.

iRoyalty
reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse

 

Hmm ok.. I'm going to leave to it, I only offered you some advice, I can't believe you blew it out the water like this.

Peace.

i cant beleive you have not appologised.

reply to post by Silicis n Volvo


Think yourself lucky you're not self employed. I'd love to earn £400 more a year. Hell, I'd love to earn only £400 less next year ....

Aloysius the Gaul

The findings from the Institute for Fiscal Studies conclude that those born in the 60’s and 70’s ‘are facing a triple whammy of meagre pay rises, inadequate pensions and soaring property prices’. All of which means that they will have less financial security in their old age, than their parents or those born in the decades before them.

There is a very simple reason for that.

Rather than extending the benefits, rights and freedoms won by UK citizens in the post WWII period, subsequent generations sold them away instead.

UK Moving Backwards: Half a Century of Social Progress Reversed in Last Decade

An interesting article - it concentrates on eth role of unions as a check against the power of large companies, and points out that they have been pretty much the only way "the ordinary people" have had of effectively conducting any oversight of large corporations.

I know a lot of people on ATS are anti union - however they still remain (IMO) the only practical means "ordinary folk" have of influencing corporations - clearly Govt's these days are more interested in appeasing corporations than reigning them in!!

And the "conspiracy movement" (for want of a better term) might do well identifying many of the excesses of corporations, but it fails to effectively oppose them, and also often muddies the waters with a vast amount of BS concealing the real issues.

I see...and the burdensome cost of entitlement programs has nothing to do with it? The same type of entitlement programs that are dragging the rest of the euros down.....
Sooner or later you have to pay the piper....nothing is free.

spam deleted

bbracken677

I see...and the burdensome cost of entitlement programs has nothing to do with it? The same type of entitlement programs that are dragging the rest of the euros down.....
Sooner or later you have to pay the piper....nothing is free.

Yes nothing is free- "freeing" themselves of these "burdensome entitlements" has cost millions a future - that is a human price to pay that seems a bit difficult to understand for those for whom the mights $/Y/E is the only measure!

"Entitlements" are not burdensome if done properly.

It is not "entitlements" that has dragged Europe to where it is - it is fraud - just like in the USA.

ken10

Whodathunkdatcheese
reply to post by stormcell

 

Across OECD countries is one thing.

In the UK is another, as the Financial Times shows.

The thing is, The British people who had lost their jobs to immigrants would have paid more tax than the immigrants who took their jobs....because they would have been paid more.

Its just spin that people are falling for.

If a tradesman here has a living standard and mortgage based on his earnings, what do you think happens when immigrants come here and compete and work for half of what that tradesman earns ???

This is not normal/natural immigration, this is mass economic immigration which can only lead to decreased wages and living standards, and where people will lose their homes, which will lead to higher rents (supply and demand) making matters even worse.

Agreed. I'm against immigration. I've seen the effects on my career (messed up my PhD and my first employment position - certain non-whites demanded copies of all my work).

Just with general inflation, I've seen food, rent and hous prices go up - what used to be £350/month in 1994, is now £850/month, and annual salary = monthly rent x 40 = £35000). Fat chance of earning £35K as a software engineer, when international students are willing to pay £12K a year for internships.

A house that cost £80K in 1980's, now costs £250,000. Weekly shopping that cost £30 in 1994, now costs £50.

iRoyalty

symptomoftheuniverse
where did l state it was the cause of all problems?

symptomoftheuniverse
All the ills on this thread just happen to occur with the influx of immigrants.

You remind me of the people invoved in this case..

Why? Because I'm telling you that if you say things to empower white people and knock down immigrants you might sound racist??

Its awful when the locals, whatever race or place cant complain about what immigration is doing to the local economy. For Petes sake. Or outside pressure, any pressure that's threatening their economic way of life?

Were the Chines racist for trying to block the British opium trade? We the americans at the Boston Tea Party really just a bunch Anglophobes?

I mean after all, what do you call it when several hundred people that don't even speak the language, show up in a town thousands of miles away from their homeland and go to work in the local factories at half the wage of locals that have been working there for three generations? Come on folks its not rocket science. You don't hear the factory owners and shareholders bitching about it. And if the locals complain they are warned about being racist? Come on dude, wake up, wake up.

SearchLightsInc
Makes me wonder what the solution to all of this actually is?



Anyone?

Revolution by a few is the only answer really, because we will never get the general majority to wake the hell up and realise what a state everything is in.

Granted, I am not as doom and gloom as my good mate Freeborn, but the system is buggered.

On the plus side, if Freeborn is right and Cameron wants us back in the Victorian age, this is actually when the people of the UK were most politically active and the Establishment had a genuine fear of revolution of the masses, so grinding us into the ground will actually work in our favour, it just won't be enjoyable for us.

Antigod
The British had enough of the unions after what went on the seventies. It abused the system, and some big companies went under due to strike action. British Leyland, for example. The whole system was being messed up by a few power crazed union leaders whipping up trouble.

Quite - I am quite avidly anti-Union having seen what they did to this country. Of course, the Miners etc like to blame Maggie, but Skargill certainly did alright for himself despite leading the miners into the fateful last charge - had the miners not been so militant (and not all were), we would probably still have an industry to speak of, but they cut their noses of to spite their own faces.

Mmm...

UK Public Sector workers, the Civil/Public Sector required to run a "democracy" as opposed to a free for all, have seen successive years of nil pay rise, this in effect is a pay cut by the back door as the true cost of living irises remorselessly.

The huge problem in this sector is the useless management that fails to run it efficiently and lacks any semblance of moral responsibility for their failures.

Add to that the vast sums of tax avoided and "squirreled" away offshore as a result of an ineffective overburdened taxation system and you begin to see why the UK is so bad. The general public are typical "Sheeple" happy to succumb to the lethargy of reality TV and MSM reporting and would not recognise the reality of their situation if it was spelt out in block letters on their latest phone or tablet.

Cure?
Wake up the "Sheeple" get them reading and contributing to ATS and other similar sites and motivate others...it's your country and world out there, not LaLa land!

The solution is not simple, the way this country has been governed it has brainwashed a considerable amount of British people in to believing the direction that we are heading in, is progression. Some of these people have believed this nonsense all their lives, many are now waking up, but how many want to admit to themselves that what they uncompromisingly believed in was and is actually a total fallacy?

So there are political divisions.

Successive governments have done brilliantly to create an underclass, devoid of motivation to personally achieve, let alone motivation towards a cause for the greater good. They have done brilliantly at cementing the vast majority of us in to a system religiously devoted towards the need for money. Many have homes to pay for and those rest who do not own a property, have extortionate private renting to pay for. Many have children, the vast majority have responsibilities. To call upon the majority of Brits to take up a stand against the powers that be, would mean many putting at risk everything they have.

So you have class divisions.

This isn’t like Victorian times, we are actually now far more enslaved and controlled as everything we do is dependent on money and those corporations in control of those every day essentials.

In Victorian times, people still had a certain amount of self sufficiency. Heating the home, acquiring food, working cash in hand, these all seem third world, but it actually still meant a certain amount of non-dependence on the state. Now, we can’t live without being dependant on the state and corporations. You can’t just go out and cut some wood or get some coal to heat your home. You can’t just do jobs here and there and get some cash to acquire food.

Some people like to believe that we have move forward from such times, but in many ways we haven’t, we still need the basic essentials, yet now they have become easy to get hold of, far harder to keep hold of. Employment rights are going backwards, they can change your contract now in minutes, nothing is said or done, it is simply actioned and if you don’t sign it you’re making yourself unemployed. Additionally, there was always a great sense of community, I cannot obviously comment on Victorian times, but anyone who has had relatives and met people who grew up during the war or before, even the 50’s and 60’s, there was a massive sense of community, even in East London where I grew up. You helped each other. That’s all dead! Now you have 500 nationalities, within themselves, who have absolutely no thought of helping another.

The bottom line is that we are too divided. What needs to be done is unification of the British people and this needs to be done from the children up, just as the elite used education to simply brain wash the children. We need to educate our children. We need to educate them to know that money is not everything, in fact, its nothing, literally, its backed by nothing and its used simply to enslave. We need to teach our children to be self sufficient, to know nature, to be able to identify edible food in the wild. To be able to grow. We need to teach our children a sense of pride, respect and decency towards all mankind, but at the same time, for our country and that our own come first. We need to get back to teaching our children a trade, something that will be essential in good times and the bad.

If the state will not help our children, we need to help our children. British tradesmen, engineers, skilled workers up and down the country should be eager to teach our own children the trade. British farmers and British horticulturalists should be eager to pass on the knowledge to all of the youth of Britain. Our Police should be teaching children skills, proper skills, that our children need in these times where state are against us. Our military should be teaching our children survival skills. I know instances in both cases where many are as I type, because certainly with the police, all are aware of the direction we are going in. We should be sharing the essential knowledge that can eventually create a generation that not only don’t want to be a part of this corrupt system, but don’t need to be a part of the corrupt system.

At the same time those now awake need to awakened. Take it from me, I deal with this every day - this country is heading towards a very violent future, the people residing in this country now and that head to this country on a daily basis, the vast majority care nothing for us or our country. Even those earning honest living, SEND ALL THEIR MONEY BACK HOME, they do not consider this home. What happens then when it does collapse? Our resources and front line services are stretched beyond breaking and many have already broken! What happens when they all break ? When violence breaks out? These people can escape to the nest egg back HOME. WELL THIS IS OUR HOME and I have never known nor read of people who would be so submissive that they would simply roll over and allow the destruction of their home right before their eyes. To address this issue, it’s about protest, unfortunately, it may not just be about protest. Sometimes actions must be met with actions of similar or greater intensity, because democracy will fail where one’s voice falls upon deaf ears.

It will get worse before it gets better, but only we together can make it better.