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UK Moving Backwards: Half a Century of Social Progress Reversed in Last Decade

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posted on Dec, 19 2013 @ 08:00 PM
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Whodathunkdatcheese
reply to post by stormcell
 


Across OECD countries is one thing.

In the UK is another, as the Financial Times shows.


The thing is, The British people who had lost their jobs to immigrants would have paid more tax than the immigrants who took their jobs....because they would have been paid more.

Its just spin that people are falling for.

If a tradesman here has a living standard and mortgage based on his earnings, what do you think happens when immigrants come here and compete and work for half of what that tradesman earns ???

This is not normal/natural immigration, this is mass economic immigration which can only lead to decreased wages and living standards, and where people will lose their homes, which will lead to higher rents (supply and demand) making matters even worse.




posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


Then you don't know the real history of unions.
The Pullman strikes, the steel strikes, the textile strikes from around 1900 - until the last round of coal miners striking have paid the ultimate price to secure many of the employee protections and perks we still enjoy in some jobs today.
Thousands died to raise conditions for workers to humane levels and won despite companies hiring armed guards and scabs to take their jobs.
It was the result of many, many struggles and sacrifices made by our forefathers.
Some unions of today do shame to their memory I agree.
Still , it is the best tool workers have against corporations.
Thus the constant smear campaign by the media.
You want real American Heroes? Look no further than those strikers I mention.
edit on 20-12-2013 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 02:44 AM
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reply to post by ken10
 


Well said Ken10.
I have been saying the same for many years. It's simple economic logic, that if the wages are lowered, and jobs offshored, then the taxable revenue drops as a consequence. Thus, to maintain the tax income to the treasury, the rest of us have to make up the shortfall one way or another, or the government has to borrow more from the central banks, at interest, to pay it's debts (to the same central banks).
It also means that those goods once manufactured here, now made abroad and imported, become unaffordable to the once good little consumer class who used to make them and buy them. The whole system becomes mired in debt, with just the corporations and banks making a killing while everyone else suffers. It's not sustainable and doomed to fail as an economic model, but they don't care as long as they get richer and collapse the system on the way out.

But hey, a good war or two thins out the population again and is a good reset switch..... and the bankers who fund the wars, at interest, make even more money and gain even more control through the debt created to fight the wars!



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 05:23 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


I would like to point out that by the time my generation 70's born get to retirement age the entire world will have moved on.

Anyone concerned about this should take heart in the fact that we are less than 20 years away from a resource based economy. Money and the way of life will not be same as it is today by 2035.

By the time people born in the 60's get to retirement, they won't need to worry about paying for their retirement because their life expectancy at that point will be way above what it is today.

You might look at me and my comments and say idealist... but I know technology and I know where we are going.

So the article is written with a present day perspective not tracking forward the actual trends and factoring in technological advances.

Peace,

Korg.



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 05:47 AM
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Korg Trinity
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


I would like to point out that by the time my generation 70's born get to retirement age the entire world will have moved on.

Anyone concerned about this should take heart in the fact that we are less than 20 years away from a resource based economy. Money and the way of life will not be same as it is today by 2035.



Thing is, the rich, that is what I should say the REAL rich, the ones with actual power not the coat tail riding wannabes have most of their wealth already in resources and acquiring more resources, land, peaple etc. As such, such a world will still mean those who are causing the problems today will still be the ones at the top making all the problems tomorrow, with or with out money in teh picture.

And good luck getting access to that tech with out privilege. The rich will live longer and stronger, the poor will live just long enough to make a few more for the slave camps.

We stand at the door way, and it wont be long before we step through and find the doors shut behind us. we at least can make a choice now. Unfortunately so few (relatively speaking) arent even thinking about which step to take next.



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 06:10 AM
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ken10

Whodathunkdatcheese
reply to post by stormcell
 


Across OECD countries is one thing.

In the UK is another, as the Financial Times shows.


The thing is, The British people who had lost their jobs to immigrants would have paid more tax than the immigrants who took their jobs....because they would have been paid more.

Its just spin that people are falling for.

If a tradesman here has a living standard and mortgage based on his earnings, what do you think happens when immigrants come here and compete and work for half of what that tradesman earns ???



Over here almost all of the small market and petroleum shops have been bought up by foreigners. They were given a 5 year tax free status. But if you were a local born and wanted to start up shop they berried you right off in fees, charges and mountains of paperwork. Whats more they don't enforce regulations on them like they do the locals.



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 06:23 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


not just those born in the 60's and 70's, I received a pay rise last week...of £400 a year.

seriously £400 a year, or roughly £23 a month. It's insulting. My bills and other outgoings have gone up twice that much in the last 12 months.

Me and my girlfriend cant get out the renting trap and buy our own home or even go on holiday.

Petrol prices, food prices, energy bills, water bills, council tax, road tax, car insurance, phone line rental all goes up.

While wages stay the same, pensions get cut, services get cut.

Whats worse is insurance companies and energy companies are making billions in profit each year but still raise prices. It's extortion

Something must be done all I know is we cant leave it up to the pr!cks at the top. They'l make it worse


edit on 20-12-2013 by Silicis n Volvo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 06:36 AM
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I have said the same thing on this board since I have joined, many of you have absolutely no idea how this country is and how much worse it is going to get for us British people. As someone working front line public service, primarily in London both inner and outer, but also my work can take me up and down the country. This country is in a mess, for us average folk.

The government’s main agenda is to eradicate purchasing power and freedom of the middle and lower classes and increase control of assets and money for the banks. A return to late 19th century conditions of both living standards, employment rights and minimal lifestyle for those not rich.

The Conservative ideology is to continue immigration at its current rate, to continue on increasing profit for the rich who make up or have strong connections to the government. Labour’s ideology is to create a generic population devoid of identity, drones with no sense of nationalist pride and simply serve the state. Both parties want a two tier class of rich and everyone else. Both parties want to use benefits and the eradication of wage increase to level off income at a single mark, in this case, around the 26k mark, gradually due to taxation, those earning 45k, will more than likely end up taking home around the same as those earning 26k.

The creation of a benefit culture, by flooding the country with cheap labour and bribing the bottom class to stay at home and not create a fuss about the butchering of the face of Britain and them not getting jobs was accelerated to new highs (or lows) with Labour, as it fitted in with their ideology. The lie of multiculturalism was forced down our throats and it considered a crime to merely speak critical of it. The lie of the need for immigration hid the truth that there was no need for immigration on such shocking levels, had the government simply not created such lucrative benefits for not working, actually was strict with education, created training and opportunity for youngsters to get such high skilled jobs as well as made all unemployed do whatever work was necessary and then PROPPING UP their salary with working tax credit. They did not want to do this, instead when it come to our youth they simply eradicated any power the teachers had in the classroom and destroyed any reason for many youngsters to even bother getting an education. The current government have done nothing to address this, they aim their immigration policies at EU citizens when over 600,000 have come in from Africa and over a million from the rest of the world. They do this because they know it’s pointless, but it gives the perception that they are doing something when they are doing nothing.

Crime is one of the biggest employment sectors in any country. Both parties know this and so work to continue its colossal scope on both our lives and their riches. The police force across the country has been beaten down and almost rendered totally useless thanks to political correctness and liberalism. The resulting impact on, for example, London, is a police force that is simply fighting fires. Only 1 in 7 arrests are British, yet whenever anyone tries to implement policies to combat this massive issue of foreigners ripping the place off, foreign gangs and foreign organised crime they are called racist. Yet it is not racist to allow these people to operate here at the expense of the British tax payer! The scale nationwide is unreal and believe me it is only getting worse.

The Unions are a joke and are made primarily of Communists. The PCS is the biggest pile of crap I’ve ever been a part of. They do nothing for the worker, strikes are pointless, they have no clout and simply fool their members in to thinking that strike action that worked 100 years ago can work today, when it’s a lie. They claim they can do great things if we stick together, yeah, we stuck together and in the last 5 years all we have had is about a 2% pay rise and our pension smashed to pieces. The Union bosses are corrupt and out for themselves and most have political ties to the left and serve their masters well, which is why when Labour were in power, you heard nothing from the Unions, even though Labour were making working conditions in the front line, unworkable!

I could go on about front line services, but anyone with any experience does not need to know about the mess that we are at present. We cannot deal with the current level of population, let alone deal with immigrants who mostly have absolutely no desire to integrate in to this country, many just want to rip it off by any means and send the money home. I may sound like a bigot, a racist or anything else that the left has invented to shout down upon those who daily experience the realities of this social experiment, but it is not anything other than common sense. I do not blame immigrants, they are also victim to the same elite that’s destroying our country as it is the same elite that in many circumstances has already destroyed their countries. However, Britain cannot sustain a relatively peaceful existence going in the direction that we are going in, something is going to very violently give.

So Britain is on a downward spiral, thanks to government both past and present destructive domestic and foreign policies that sees the average Brit at the bottom of the pile. This country, in my opinion based on my working experience, will eventually descend in to civil war, I honestly hand on heart believe this.



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 06:57 AM
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BigfootNZ

Korg Trinity
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


I would like to point out that by the time my generation 70's born get to retirement age the entire world will have moved on.

Anyone concerned about this should take heart in the fact that we are less than 20 years away from a resource based economy. Money and the way of life will not be same as it is today by 2035.



Thing is, the rich, that is what I should say the REAL rich, the ones with actual power not the coat tail riding wannabes have most of their wealth already in resources and acquiring more resources, land, peaple etc. As such, such a world will still mean those who are causing the problems today will still be the ones at the top making all the problems tomorrow, with or with out money in teh picture.

And good luck getting access to that tech with out privilege. The rich will live longer and stronger, the poor will live just long enough to make a few more for the slave camps.

We stand at the door way, and it wont be long before we step through and find the doors shut behind us. we at least can make a choice now. Unfortunately so few (relatively speaking) arent even thinking about which step to take next.


I think you don't know what a resource based economy is.

Do some research and then come back when you have a handle on it.

Peace,

Korg.



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 07:03 AM
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symptomoftheuniverse
Only the white british are labled scrounging chavs but immigrants are double plus good.
All the ills on this thread just happen to occur with the influx of immigrants. Foodbank charities are already advertising on T.V.
Why and who are they doing this to us,because whoever it is ,they are not British.


I wouldn't go blaming all the problems of society on immigration. Whilst immigration is an issue and I hate the BNP for turning it into a racist matter... It is not the source of them all! Also, be careful not to turn your prejudice into racism, otherwise you will just be another person helping the immigration issue become a racist thing again...



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by iRoyalty
 


What prejudice? What racism? I am ifinatly more loving than you,to all creeds and colours.
Stop your jibba jabba!
You should be ashamed of yourself.



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 08:07 AM
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Makes me wonder what the solution to all of this actually is?



Anyone?



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 08:57 AM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 


I'll admit that I don't know the full history of unions, but I do know a fair bit about them, both past and present.

Yes, they were needed when they were formed and it was a long hard fight.

I know of some of the smaller unions or at least independent minded locals that don't toe the line. The Railroad unions also treat their people well. But I believe that the larger ones (those that have merged) have become what they once fought against. It's like they have found the ring and became corrupted.

When management and unions work together, things seem to work out. But these days, both sides seem to me to be much like Congress, they come out swinging, rather than talking and letting it escalate from there.

edit on 20-12-2013 by TDawgRex because: Forgot ONE word, which made a entire paragraph useless...



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 09:05 AM
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The solution?

I think more grass roots organisation against the coming corporate feudalism.

LIke the unions. Like occupy. Like credit unions.

The two main parties are far too beholden to Capital to do anything. UKIP is akin to a drunk old Telegraph reader shouting at closing time.

The irony is that Marx (and I'm not a Marxist by any stretch of the imagination) said that the final stage of capitalism is the financialisation of capitalism, and this is happening. Look the declining amount of FoEx transactions that are actually to enable people to buy and sell goods in other countries compared to just trying betting on it as an example.

I can tell you what the solution isn't.

Fixate on immigration - classic divide and rule
Fixate on benefit cheats - again classic divide and rule especially considering that the bill for corporate welfare dwarfs that for humans
blacktrianglecampaign.org...
and considering that tax evasion is rife amongst the superrich and corporates.


The irony is that actually the welfare state and higher wages for the bottom and middle of society really helps capitalism, more people to buy things, and less penalty for failure so that innovators and small business creators have less to lose by setting up a business, so are more likely to try.
edit on 20-12-2013 by knownothing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 10:13 AM
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symptomoftheuniverse
reply to post by iRoyalty
 


What prejudice? What racism? I am ifinatly more loving than you,to all creeds and colours.
Stop your jibba jabba!
You should be ashamed of yourself.


Woahhh dude I'm agreeing with you, don't bite the hand that feeds...

I was talking about your prejudice in assuming immigrants are the cause of all of our problems, immigration is a problem but if you go around saying it's the cause of ALL problems then people will just assume your racist.

Like I said, be careful if you want to be taken seriously.



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 10:21 AM
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iRoyalty

symptomoftheuniverse
reply to post by iRoyalty
 


What prejudice? What racism? I am ifinatly more loving than you,to all creeds and colours.
Stop your jibba jabba!
You should be ashamed of yourself.


Woahhh dude I'm agreeing with you, don't bite the hand that feeds...

I was talking about your prejudice in assuming immigrants are the cause of all of our problems, immigration is a problem but if you go around saying it's the cause of ALL problems then people will just assume your racist.

Like I said, be careful if you want to be taken seriously.
where did l state it was the cause of all problems? You remind me of the people invoved in this case.. www.telegraph.co.uk... not the purpetrators but the people this inquiry slates..
If your going to read between the lines make sure you dont judge people by your own standards.


"An obsession with being “colour blind” left social workers and police in Rochdale unable to see glaring evidence of sexual grooming under their noses, official inquiry finds

A “dangerous” inability to recognise the importance of race meant social workers and police missed glaring warning signs about a gang of Pakistani men grooming white girls for sex in Rochdale, an official inquiry has concluded.

An obsession with being “colour blind” meant they failed even to notice the pattern of abuse going on under their noses, it found."
edit on 20-12-2013 by symptomoftheuniverse because: added extra info

edit on 20-12-2013 by symptomoftheuniverse because: granmar

edit on 20-12-2013 by symptomoftheuniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 10:32 AM
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symptomoftheuniverse
where did l state it was the cause of all problems?


symptomoftheuniverse
All the ills on this thread just happen to occur with the influx of immigrants.



You remind me of the people invoved in this case..


Why? Because I'm telling you that if you say things to empower white people and knock down immigrants you might sound racist??

Also, just because one Pakistani man was involved doesn't instantly mean all Pakistani men are... One of my best friends is Pakistani, he's a good husband and a kind human being. There's enough white people doing this stuff too...

All I said was if you want to be taken seriously, approach the problem intellectually and not start with blaming everything on immigration... Like I said, immigration is an issue but the way you say it, you just appear racist and no one will listen. If you don't want my advice, fine, that's your decision but I would appreciate it if you didn't badly attempt to insult me, it's quite ridiculous and quite cowardly when you say it to a computer screen.
edit on 20-12-2013 by iRoyalty because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by iRoyalty
 

I dont care if im taken seriously what i do care about is false insinuations, the ills occured at the same time as immigration,i never said immigration was the cause now did i?.
Orwell whats the point?
There you go again insinuating,declaring and derailing ,the mind boggles
I deserve an appology
edit on 20-12-2013 by symptomoftheuniverse because: added extra info



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse
 


For what? I was on your side and you bit my head off!

If you don't want to be taken seriously then that's fine, your doing a good job of it.



posted on Dec, 20 2013 @ 11:23 AM
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iRoyalty
reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse
 


For what? I was on your side and you bit my head off!

If you don't want to be taken seriously then that's fine, your doing a good job of it.
for getting it all wrong when you talk about my prejudices and for trolling. You were wrong but i will not expect you to admit it.



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