9/11: "Incontrovertible evidence" that the Saudi Government helped the hijackers

None of this is surprising really. Osama bin Laden was tied in with the Saudi's. He was kicked out while the US was let in but I've always sensed there was some involvement there that hasn't been forthcoming.

Bin laden was being funded by some nefarious sources, which are still controversial. I don't know about Bush. He didn't seem too surprised when hearing the news. He was not that calm of a man so his reaction was unnatural to me. We will know for sure in about 36 more years is my guess.

My only question is why. Nothing I've heard about conspiracies is convincing yet. Bush is buddies with these guys (no secret there). We are helping them out with their stuff. Then they kill a bunch of our citizens. While I believe a cell of Saudi's were involved I don't think it was the government. But I do think Bush knew of the cell and their plans. Why they pinned it all on bin Laden is the mystery - why protect the Saudi rogue cell?

Crazy to think a cartoon is spot on...

Char-Lee
reply to post by havok

 

Again, quite the generalized statement. I neither use or condone the use of said search engine. More likely, I read a good amount of books to acquire my knowledge as it seems Google isn't the best source of information or knowledge. So...want to try again, bub?

Star for you, I agree with all you said except I have to say this...is not completely reasonable, as I have read thousands of books and I can find pretty much anything contained in any of them with an online search. Knowledge is there so it is silly for it to be dismissed as useless in my humble opinion.

I have 109 books on the subject of 9/11-over 4000 documents from the Archives-20 hours of video and well over 200 articles I have written myself.

Not a single word of any of this is available on the internet. The most fascinating part of 9/11 is the 4 1/2 year plot and how it came and went and changed over and over-the plotters never getting impatient, and willing to continue planning after major setbacks. They waited and waited which is very difficult for a black operation of this magnitude.

If you are really serious about 9/11 research you start with Lawrence Wright's Pulitzer Prize winning work 'The Looming Towers'. There are 18 more text to study including John Miller's 'The Cell' all the way to Peter Bergen's 'Manhunt' the 10 year search for Bin Laden that ended in Abbottabad.

Other than using the internet to purchase books it is completely and utterly useless as a study guide to 9/11. Unless, of course, you don't want the truth-just the fantasy.

The evolution of the Hamburg cell, from a small mosque on the 2nd floor above a dive bar on the seedy Steinstrasse, to piloting a plane into one of the tallest buildings in the world-is some of the most fascinating history you will ever read.

Of course if you want to learn about sheer lunacy and silly, childish theories, based on nothing other than hatred for America then stick to the internet.

Note on the New York Post. They are a pretty decent News Paper, and are one of the home town news papers where the WTC stood. They are known for sensationalized Front and Back Page Photo's and Headlines,(Front page is the news cover, back page is the sports cover) but the content inside you actually read is fine. They also get riled up about anything 9/11 for obvious reasons.

superman2012
reply to post by _BoneZ_

 

So they’ve proposed Congress pass a resolution asking President Obama to declassify the entire 2002 report, “Joint Inquiry Into Intelligence Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001.”

I guess we'll see how transparent he really is.

Maybe it was Iraq? (still holding onto some hope that they didn't lie to us

)

I wonder what will happen to Saudi Arabia?

If I was Iran I would be worried about this coming to light because there is no way in hell that they will attack SA, they need something to take the public eye away from this.

Obama said the 9/11 thing was over, he said that along time ago.

I think the whole story is bull, Pakistan was in on it too, big deal, what about Israel, What about the Petrol Dollar, they gotsta blame someone else.

The most powerful country in the world caught with their pants down around their ankles, Bull crap, just like Benghazi, Bull Crap.

butcherguy
reply to post by butcherguy

 

To the NSA, my post above was rhetorical.
Furthermore, I do not have the logistical capabilities to launch military attacks on countries capitals.

You would actually be addressing the FBI I believe as the NSA does not monitor domestic communications - Or so they say.

WWJFKD

butcherguy
reply to post by butcherguy

 

To the NSA, my post above was rhetorical.
Furthermore, I do not have the logistical capabilities to launch military attacks on countries capitals.

You would actually be addressing the FBI I believe as the NSA does not monitor domestic communications - Or so they say.

'They' say.

Snowden says otherwise.

spooky24

The evolution of the Hamburg cell, from a small mosque on the 2nd floor above a dive bar on the seedy Steinstrasse, to piloting a plane into one of the tallest buildings in the world-is some of the most fascinating history you will ever read.

The physical reality of the event in regards to both the plane on approach to impact, as well as the destruction of the twin towers, an hour and an hour and a half later, which basically exploded from top to bottom to within a timespan of 4-6 seconds of absolute freefall in nothing but air (see first and third laws of motion and conservation of momentum) does NOT support the "official story" about what happened.

Equivalent Airspeed of south tower plane:

510 knots (9/11 Commission Report, 500+ confirmed by radar) = 575-600mph, observation for ground speed calculations using building distances = 586mph - at Sea Level.


= 1.38 Mach @ 35,000 feet or 915 knots

= 1.19 Mach @ 22,000 feet or 722 knots

"During the descent from 12,000 feet to 6,000 feet, the aircraft groundspeed remained between 500 - 520 knots. As the aircraft made it's descent to 1000 feet, it accelerated (there goes Zaphod58's hypothesis about the speed at level flight on final approach) and impacted World Trade Center tower #2 at approximately 510 knots groundspeed.

Radar_Data_Impact_Speed_Study--AA11,_UA175 (pdf)

Calculator for EAS
www.luizmonteiro.com...

Note: Airspeed would have exceeded groundspeed due to the fact that the wind was blowing to the N/W

With regards to flight control - watch/listen just from 24.58 - 32.22 (just over 7 minutes) in the following video

Pilots, real pilots, with 1000's of hours of flight time experience, flying heavy aircraft, could not even hit the target (south tower) in the UA flight simulator, unless they slowed the plane down to near landing speed, in trying to do it over and over again, and failing, at the higher speed.

420 (Vd limit, by stress/flutter testing), 425 (which is .99 - Mach 1.0 equivalent airspeed and pressure at higher altitude of 22,000 feet),
430, 435, 440, 445, 450, 455, 460, 465, 470, 475, 480, 485, 490, 495, 500, 505, 510 (= 722 knots at 22,000 ft or Mach 1.19, or 915 knots and Mach 1.38 at 35,000 feet).

Vd (dive speed limit) is 420 knots (EAS) for the 767 as set by the manufacturer based on wind tunnel and flight testing. It is not the operational limit, but the structural limit based on airspeed beyond which the plane cannot go more than 5 or 10 knots max (equivalent of Mach 1 + at altitude) without breaking apart. And there are precedents for this, which can be used as a benchmark. Regular, unmodified commercial airliners cannot exceed Mach 1 or it's equivalent airspeed (EAS) by such a wide margin without experiencing structural failure, never mind maintaining controlled flight at such speeds.

Here are those limitations, from Boeing...

(pfd) rgl.faa.gov...$FILE/A1NM%20Rev%2026.pdf



And here is what typically happens when Vd is exceeded by such a LARGE margin (a phenomenon called "flutter")
Vd explained (including Airbus A380 Flutter Test video)

theflyingengineer.com...

420 (EAS Vd limit, for Boeing 767, by stress/flutter testing),
425 (which is .99 - Mach 1.0 equivalent airspeed and pressure at higher altitude of 22,000 feet),
430,
435,
440,
445,
450,
455,
460,
465,
470,
475,
480,
485,
490,
495,
500,
505,
510 Recorded Speed @ 700 feet altitude or Sea Level (= 722 knots at 22,000 ft alt. or Mach 1.19, or, 915 knots and Mach 1.38 at 35,000 feet altitude).

Additional clarification and corroboration in pages 27 and 28 of the article linked in my signature, but that's it right there in a nutshell.

This is very VERY serious. It's not "childish theory" but cold hard facts in evidence. The plane that impacted the south tower could not possibly have been the originating flight 175 but MUST have been a modified variant-retrofit of the Boeing 767 commercial airliner.

As with the buildings, the laws of physics DO NOT LIE.

The hijackers were nothing but patsies, shuffled around within the context of the 9/11 War Games involving simulated hijacked aircraft being flown into landmark buildings, amid obvious plane swapping, a technique first outlined in Operation Northwoods proposed by the Joint Chiefs as a pretext to the invasion of Cuba, which JFK angrily rejected.


NAM

P.S. This info is presented, not out of hatred, but love, for the United States, as a Civilized Society and global leader.

"That which hurts, also instructs."
~ Benjamin Franklin

reply to post by GargIndia


You know... I have a feeling you are right, at least about the first part.

It does seem like the Saudi's always have their hands in enemies cookie jars.

I remember it being reported by a AP reporter that the Saudi's were the ones who made the chemical attack possible.

It could possibly be that Saudia Arabia with the help of the US is trying to mix things up in its own region. It would not surprise the least.

reply to post by spooky24

If you are really serious about 9/11 research you start with Lawrence Wright's Pulitzer Prize winning work 'The Looming Towers'. There are 18 more text to study including John Miller's 'The Cell' all the way to Peter Bergen's 'Manhunt' the 10 year search for Bin Laden that ended in Abbottabad.

By the time I was 11 I was reading 7 books a week even going to school, I also read all my school books issued for the year in the first few days of the school year. I read.

Nearly everything anyone needs is available, even Wiki that is so put down all the time, no one goes to the references and follows up but getting parts from various sources and putting them in one place for those who are not good readers or have no time should not be put down and vilified all the time.

This makes me think of Michael Moore's docudrama Fahrenheit 9/11.

Remember the scene at 19m 14s in?


The Saudi squirliness always bothered the hell out of me.

Well what do you know..The first 9/11 conspiracy that would have truth to it.All you need to know is Saudi Arabia is in the headline thread.
However the only part that is believebale is the Saudis funded and aided and helped the terrorist.It is nonsense that the U.S.blew up their own buildings.

reply to post by Jobeycool

It is nonsense that the U.S.blew up their own buildings.

No the whole "U.S." did not blow up their own buildings.

spooky24

Char-Lee
reply to post by havok

 

Again, quite the generalized statement. I neither use or condone the use of said search engine. More likely, I read a good amount of books to acquire my knowledge as it seems Google isn't the best source of information or knowledge. So...want to try again, bub?

Star for you, I agree with all you said except I have to say this...is not completely reasonable, as I have read thousands of books and I can find pretty much anything contained in any of them with an online search. Knowledge is there so it is silly for it to be dismissed as useless in my humble opinion.

I have 109 books on the subject of 9/11-over 4000 documents from the Archives-20 hours of video and well over 200 articles I have written myself.

Not a single word of any of this is available on the internet. The most fascinating part of 9/11 is the 4 1/2 year plot and how it came and went and changed over and over-the plotters never getting impatient, and willing to continue planning after major setbacks. They waited and waited which is very difficult for a black operation of this magnitude.

If you are really serious about 9/11 research you start with Lawrence Wright's Pulitzer Prize winning work 'The Looming Towers'. There are 18 more text to study including John Miller's 'The Cell' all the way to Peter Bergen's 'Manhunt' the 10 year search for Bin Laden that ended in Abbottabad.

Other than using the internet to purchase books it is completely and utterly useless as a study guide to 9/11. Unless, of course, you don't want the truth-just the fantasy.

The evolution of the Hamburg cell, from a small mosque on the 2nd floor above a dive bar on the seedy Steinstrasse, to piloting a plane into one of the tallest buildings in the world-is some of the most fascinating history you will ever read.

Of course if you want to learn about sheer lunacy and silly, childish theories, based on nothing other than hatred for America then stick to the internet.

Curious as to why you feel the words in a book are more believable than other sources. Was it the price of the books that swayed you?

Morg234
reply to post by _BoneZ_

 

This is muddying of the waters. A go-between that's neither here nor there. A bit like the relatively new JFK assassination theory; "Secret Service Agent accidentally discharged weapon".

It's in the same area as the "US agencies had 'foreknowledge'" of attacks argument.

That all the agencies had foreknowledge, and directly or indirectly had a hand in 9/11 isn't really an argument, more like a fact.

Ahmad Shah Massoud, told the European Parliment in spring of 2001 that Al Qaeda was planning an attack on the US much larger than the bombings in 1998...Then he was blown to peices the day before 9/11 by two hired suicide bombers linked to the taliban.

John. P. O'Niell, the FBI man who knew more about Bin Laden and Al Qaeda than anyone else resigned after his work was constantly hampered from above after the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen.
He was later offered a job by Jerome Hauer, working for Kroll Associates (a CIA front organisation) in the WTC..he started (and finished) on 9/11.

As for the CIA, BUZZ KRONGARD, DEUTSCHE BANK ALEX BROWN AND THE UAL PUT OPTIONS

If that isnt enough to show that you that many people knew..Echelon gave warnings of attacks

reply to post by _BoneZ_


A far more obvious question SHOULD be,

Why any terrorist cell would want to smash a tower that could only result in NOTHING gained by them, in any fashion EVER.

Or, is the terrorist cells involved, a different kind of terrorists with different goals.

Anyone take a look at the WTC site now ? What does one see there but an obvious monument to some super dark energies, shapes and symbols that go beyond anything I have EVER seen before.

Looks like the gateway for some incredibly bad entities to come through at will, the original idea of building the towers, was ALWAYS to blow them up in this fashion, foretold in many ancient books, including the BIBLE.

The Two Towers, the Stargate of Saturn itself, Solomon's Temple, Gateway of RA, time to start looking in a whole new direction, and go to the site itself and ask yourself why it is so BLATANTLY dark and miserable there, with the whole site costing billions of dollars to create something that is in all Dark Magic Books as being the ultimate portal for EVIL.

Load of smack.
More Mossad cointel. Everyone knows it was Israel/US intelligence op.

What better way to kick off 2014 and get the US out of its debt-hole, than to make this info public, get the public cheering for Saudi sand covered blood, and before April, you will see the US invading and desposing the Saudi Monarchy, taking its oil fields for itself.....like Iraq but on a larger scale.

USA takes out Saudi, Israel take out Iran......Mideast Map redrawn in blood covered sand!

Rep.Stephen Lynch Interview.

Here's one of the co-sponsors of the bill Rep.Lynch talking about the Joint Inquiry and the redacted pages.Like the old saying goes:Where there's smoke there's fire.Since this story has appeared most of the responses have been in support of declassifying that section of the report.Very few responses have been made in defense of the Saudis.