Stunning Morning That Makes You Wonder & Something New (To Me)

reply to post by Stormdancer777


In the 1990s larger capacity aircraft that were cheaper to operate were introduced. So on some routes, they dropped flights, using larger aircraft, while on others they dropped routes because they weren't making money anymore. It makes a lot more sense to operate a 777-200 which carries more on fewer flights a day, than it does to operate a 757, on more flights a day.

Air travel is a complex issue that takes a lot of factors into consideration. The numbers are constantly fluctuating.

OneFreeMan


What facts would they be? Government sanctioned ones,

I am sorry you cannot believe what science has to offer. You can look back in textbooks at a library as far back as you like. Sadly, those were written by men, who I suppose could have been on the governments payroll, but some of us aren't quite that paranoid. I am curious how you function in society not trusting anything but what you remember?

OneFreeMan

What facts would they be? Government sanctioned ones, is it?

Since when were Flightradar24 and other tracking sites government run? Flightradar24 uses private citizens willing to put ADS-B receivers up around their homes to track flights. It has nothing to do with the government.

Stormdancer777
reply to post by network dude

 

I am trying to remember when I first noticed them, it would have to have been in the nineties, but I don't see them like that anymore, shouldn't it have increased?

They have increased exponentially. Just as the population has. But please, don't just take my word or someone else's word, use google or go to a library. All these facts exist for you to verify for yourself.

Stormdancer777
reply to post by network dude

 

I am trying to remember when I first noticed them, it would have to have been in the nineties, but I don't see them like that anymore, shouldn't it have increased?

I would have to agree with a late 90s scenario myself as to starting to notice the 'chemtrail' looking, long-lasting trails. If it's because the engines changed, that would be a GREAT topic for either a forum thread discussing the parameters needed for longlasting trails; fuel, engine, altitude and weather parameters, for someone like Zaphod who seems to understand the issues involved. I would be surprised if the number of flights has changed that much, given the cost of a flight now and the ability to conference-call, as well as budgeting issues by stressed companies regarding travel costs for employees. If the new planes hold more people, then flights should have lessened, all things being equal.

But ridiculing people because they've lived long enough to realize something has changed, and drastically, isn't helping to understand the issue.

And we haven't talked about the people who say they've analyzed air samples from behind the 'chemtrail' planes and gotten high levels of barium, aluminum, etc.

signalfire

Stormdancer777
reply to post by network dude

 

I am trying to remember when I first noticed them, it would have to have been in the nineties, but I don't see them like that anymore, shouldn't it have increased?

I would have to agree with a late 90s scenario myself as to starting to notice the 'chemtrail' looking, long-lasting trails. If it's because the engines changed, that would be a GREAT topic for either a forum thread discussing the parameters needed for longlasting trails; fuel, engine, altitude and weather parameters, for someone like Zaphod who seems to understand the issues involved. I would be surprised if the number of flights has changed that much, given the cost of a flight now and the ability to conference-call, as well as budgeting issues by stressed companies regarding travel costs for employees. If the new planes hold more people, then flights should have lessened, all things being equal.

Please look up this information. I can post links, but they will be complained away, if you find your own information, then you will trust it.

But ridiculing people because they've lived long enough to realize something has changed, and drastically, isn't helping to understand the issue.

I don't believe I have ridiculed anyone about this? It wasn't my intention.

And we haven't talked about the people who say they've analyzed air samples from behind the 'chemtrail' planes and gotten high levels of barium, aluminum, etc.

Now THAT is something we have all been asking for. If a mid air sample was taken and showed something different than exhaust and ice crystals, it would certainly change my mind and perhaps the whole scientific community. That would be considered a fact that could not be explained away. Please link that if you have it.

signalfire
And we haven't talked about the people who say they've analyzed air samples from behind the 'chemtrail' planes and gotten high levels of barium, aluminum, etc.

Because they haven't analyzed samples from trails, they've analyzed samples from ground level that supposedly fell from the trails. I haven't seen a single sample brought forth that has been taken directly from a contrail that has been anything but a contrail.

As for the engines, new engines have only 10% of the air taken in go through the core of the engine, the rest bypasses the engine. This allows for contrails to form at lower altitudes, because it puts a lot more moisture into the air.

reply to post by signalfire

And we haven't talked about the people who say they've analyzed air samples from behind the 'chemtrail' planes and gotten high levels of barium, aluminum, etc.

And we won't because that hasn't happened.

So far all chemtrail believers have tested were either soil or water samples which doesn't even come close to proving chemtrails exist.

reply to post by signalfire

I would be surprised if the number of flights has changed that much, given the cost of a flight now and the ability to conference-call, as well as budgeting issues by stressed companies regarding travel costs for employees.

Actually, it has because more people are flying now than before...

As jets were integrated into the market in the late 1950s and early 1960s, the industry experienced dramatic growth. By the mid-1960s, they were carrying roughly 100 million passengers and by the mid-1970s, over 200 million Americans had traveled by air.[1] This steady increase in air travel began placing serious strains on the ability of federal regulators to cope with the increasingly complex nature of air travel.[citation needed]The onset of high inflation, low economic growth, falling productivity, rising labor costs and higher fuel costs proved problematic to the airlines.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

And that number has steadily risen since then.

reply to post by Metaphysique

indeed we certainly can now see who reads and who doesn't. what forum is this thread on? [hint: Geo-Engineering and Chemtrails] did you read the 1st reply?

Yes I did,

Can you show me where Zaphod was telling the OP this and in the immature way you put it and not simply answering what the OP was asking?

you should disregard the sheeple and the predators in sheeples clothing delusionaly telling you: "it's just contrails stupid"

So when OP asks the question you tell them when answered just ignore.

Did you maybe answer what OP was asking? Or have all your posts on this thread been about other posters?

have you taken note of whose posting here? that's right, the delusionals [and agenda driven] who see contrails everywhere, even coming out of peoples mouths I think you'd better stop inhaling/huffing...whatever it is just saiyan...

Delusions

Its those pesky chemtrails that have me going dizzy and getting the flu and hiding Nibiru so I cant see it then the sun the next day gets hidden by them,

Thanks for your concerns

Zaphod58

OneFreeMan

What facts would they be? Government sanctioned ones, is it?

Since when were Flightradar24 and other tracking sites government run? Flightradar24 uses private citizens willing to put ADS-B receivers up around their homes to track flights. It has nothing to do with the government.

rather revealing what flight radar doesnt show.

Common aircraft models that usually do not have an ADS-B transponder and are not visible on Flightradar24 (within ADS-B coverage):

"Air Force One"
Antonov AN-124 and AN-225
ATR 42, 72 (except most new deliveries of ATR 72-600)
Boeing 707, 717, 727, 737-200, 747-100, 747-200, 747SP
BAe Jetstream 31 and 32
All Bombardier CRJ models
All Bombardier Dash models
All CASA models
All Dornier models
All Embraer models (except most new deliveries of Embraer E190)
De Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter
Fokker 50
McDonnell Douglas DC-9, MD-8x, MD-90
Saab 340 and 2000
Most helicopters
Most older aircraft
Most business jets
Most military aircraft
Most propeller aircraft
[...]
Blocking

For security and privacy reasons information about some aircraft is limited or blocked.

www.flightradar24.com...

sooooo... flightradar24' ISN'T the tell all reveal all indisputable evidenciary source you folks
[who see contrails everywhere] make it out to be.

Since I was young, I've always been into jets and rockets. For this reason, I've always watched the skies. If there was the sound of a jet overhead, I was the first one to stop what I was doing and look up. In my 35+ years of sky watching and jet watching, I've never seen a trail come out of a jet. Not once. Not ever.

After traveling to the four corners of the U.S. by jet and by car, and after living in both the north and south of the United States for extended periods of time, I have never seen a trail come out of a jet. Not once. Not ever.

Tampa International AirportI've lived on military bases, and I grew up near one of the world's most heavily traveled air spaces - Tampa, Florida. I've watched thousands upon thousands of commercial jets. I've had some flight training. As a child I amassed a sizable collection containing thousands of pictures of jets, both commercial and military, and in all this time, I never saw a trail come out of a jet. Not once. Not ever.

Chemtrail, NOT ContrailToday, there is a persistent stream of information trying to convince us that these innumerable, short, non-persistent plumes coming out of jets today are contrails (water vapor), yet contrail formation from jet engines only occurs under very specific and very rare conditions. As a result, contrail formation is extremely rare. Furthermore, visible—although very faint—contrail formation can only occur at altitudes too-high to be seen from the ground, and even then they are still extremely rare.

For these reasons, most people will go through their entire lives without ever seeing a contrail, either from the ground or from the air.
Categories of Contrail Believers

Surprisingly, today, there is a handful of people who claim that they've seen contrails come out of jets all of their lives. Some of these people are celebrities. Others are actually leaders in the anti-chemtrail movement.

All of these observers fall into one of these three categories:

Chemtrail Observers Who Believe in Contrails

1. Honest and Misinformed

2. Social Conformists

3. Disinformationalists

globalskywatch.com...

picture of an actual contrail

reply to post by signalfire


Cheshire is in the vicinity of Manchester Airport. None of the traffic using Manchester Airport will have made any one of those trails. MAN traffic doesn't even leave contrail over my house, 90 miles away in Yorkshire, so your thinking, as outlined in your post is way off beam.

That region is slso under a major upper air route that is transitted by intercontinental traffic between Europe and North America, and even further afield so, when the humidity is right, there is nothing unusual about the number of trails photographed as we are talking LOTS of flights from several different countries.

reply to post by Metaphysique


And if you read other posts about this, is been said repeatedly that FR24 doesn't show every plane. ADS-B transponders aren't required on every aircraft yet. But it's still going to identify a lot more aircraft than standing there starting at them.

OneFreeMan

Kellys
It was a clear morning here in the UK (Cheshire) and shortly after the sun came out the sky got pretty busy!

The views were stunning BUT made me wonder if there might be more to 'chemtrails' than I thought ....

These were taken today just after 8am. I'm sure that there are going to be plenty of people for and against but I have to say that to me they are stunning either way

What I did find was fantastic was seeing something that I've never seen before - I'm sure it's just the light/clouds and it's not done justice in this image - it was really bright and looked strange to me - probably because I've never seen anything like it before lol. Almost like a rainbow shrunk right down and turned on it's side

Any thoughts?

You were blasted. And blasted good. And all before 8 in the morning, before
the day has hardly begun.
Expect the usual suspects telling you it's all normal, to go back to bed with nothing
to worry about. Believe it if you will, but whatever you do don't believe your
lying eyes, because you cannot trust them at all you know!

Your photo's are good examples of the deliberate spraying chemtrailing program
that is plaguing us all.

Simple question for you. One that no chemtrail believer has ever been able to answer yet one that is fundamental to the chemtrail theory. Why aren't these just contrails?

Metaphysique

35+ years of sky watching and jet watching, I've never seen a trail come out of a jet. Not once. Not ever.

From your source.

After hearing that, you are free to believe anything this person says, but even the most hardened chemtrail believers couldn't tell this crock of crap and not break up laughing.

Never, not once.
BWahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Metaphysique

Since I was young, I've always been into jets and rockets. For this reason, I've always watched the skies. If there was the sound of a jet overhead, I was the first one to stop what I was doing and look up. In my 35+ years of sky watching and jet watching, I've never seen a trail come out of a jet. Not once. Not ever.

After traveling to the four corners of the U.S. by jet and by car, and after living in both the north and south of the United States for extended periods of time, I have never seen a trail come out of a jet. Not once. Not ever.

Tampa International AirportI've lived on military bases, and I grew up near one of the world's most heavily traveled air spaces - Tampa, Florida. I've watched thousands upon thousands of commercial jets. I've had some flight training. As a child I amassed a sizable collection containing thousands of pictures of jets, both commercial and military, and in all this time, I never saw a trail come out of a jet. Not once. Not ever.

Chemtrail, NOT ContrailToday, there is a persistent stream of information trying to convince us that these innumerable, short, non-persistent plumes coming out of jets today are contrails (water vapor), yet contrail formation from jet engines only occurs under very specific and very rare conditions. As a result, contrail formation is extremely rare. Furthermore, visible—although very faint—contrail formation can only occur at altitudes too-high to be seen from the ground, and even then they are still extremely rare.

For these reasons, most people will go through their entire lives without ever seeing a contrail, either from the ground or from the air.
Categories of Contrail Believers

Surprisingly, today, there is a handful of people who claim that they've seen contrails come out of jets all of their lives. Some of these people are celebrities. Others are actually leaders in the anti-chemtrail movement.

All of these observers fall into one of these three categories:

Chemtrail Observers Who Believe in Contrails

1. Honest and Misinformed

2. Social Conformists

3. Disinformationalists

I just have to know this. Do you believe the above to be fact? It's very important to understand your position here.

edit on 25-11-2013 by network dude because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-11-2013 by network dude because: fixed information

network dude

Metaphysique

35+ years of sky watching and jet watching, I've never seen a trail come out of a jet. Not once. Not ever.

From your source.

After hearing that, you are free to believe anything this person says, but even the most hardened chemtrail believers couldn't tell this crock of crap and not break up laughing.

Never, not once.
BWahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what? no proof, evidence, rational arguments, or science?
only ridicule, and ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS?
and this makes you credible somehow?

sounds legit

How Wingtip Contrails Form

Wingtip contrails form because of the inward airflow (towards the fuselage) above a wing combined with the outward airflow (away from the fuselage) below a wing. This differential causes a rapid spiraling effect at the wingtip which induces a vacuum in the center area of the spiral. When conditions are just right and enough humidity is present, this vacuum causes the humidity in the air to condense because of the dramatic drop in air pressure.

This phenomenon normally occurs when the plane or jet is pitching back which causes an increased difference in the pressure above the wing as opposed to the pressure below the wing. This condition is necessary for a vacuum sufficient to cause condensation.

This type of contrail formation may occasionally be witnessed when a commercial jet is landing in extremely humid conditions just before touch down when the jet is in the process of pitching back. It may also be witnessed when a plane or fighter jet is rapidly pitching back while in flight. Keep in mind that this contrail formation has nothing to do with jet engines or the burning of fossil fuels.

globalskywatch.com...

network dude
I just have to know this. Do you believe the above to be fact? It's very important to understand your position here.

hint: not on all 4's

reply to post by Metaphysique

globalskywatch.com...

Great source you have there as this is truly amazing to me and I am sure real scientists...

Remember This: Contrails are so rare, that virtually no person will ever see one in their lifetime. So remember, on social networks, unless you know someone personally, you have no idea who they are.

globalskywatch.com...

All I can say about that is...

Zaphod58
reply to post by Metaphysique

 

And if you read other posts about this, is been said repeatedly that FR24 doesn't show every plane. ADS-B transponders aren't required on every aircraft yet. But it's still going to identify a lot more aircraft than standing there starting at them.

never by those who always post it as indisputable proof [as you've done]
only after the matter is pointed out to them. [as you are doing now]

reply to post by Metaphysique

what? no proof, evidence, rational arguments, or science?
only ridicule, and ABSOLUTELY NO FACTS?
and this makes you credible somehow?

And you have just described your source perfectly.

He is more credible than your source ever will be.

In fact this alone shows just how wrong your source really is...

Real condensation trails form, not behind commonly-used engines, but behind high-vacuum areas of wings. This occurs when a jet is pitching up or when the jet is using heavy flaps. Both of these conditions greatly increase the vacuum (lift) produced by the wing and therefore increase the probability of contrail formation.

Well this too...

Since we know that high-bypass turbofans are virtually incapable of producing condensation trails, then the trails we see coming from these countless jets today must be particulate aerosols. You can easily identify high-bypass turbofans by their large diameter, and this engine type is clearly visible on all "chemtrail" jets we see emitting trails today.

globalskywatch.com...

Again real credible source you have there..