When the “BIG” caliber is necessary

I would use your recommendations if I had the training to overcome the fear and tenseness of a gun-firing situation, I don't....even cops who have had training at ranges, miss a lot of their shots in those situations. this isn't like one of the cops shows, where one or two shots at 50 to 75 yards is all that is needed to hit their marks, this would be real life, nervous, panicky, shaking, firing......so, for many of the inexperienced shooters out there, the logical choice would be a.... 18 1/2 inch barreled 12 gauge pump, 8 shot shotgun....45 semi-auto with a 10 round clip handgun...for food (game) 22lr rifle...in my civilian way of thinking.

reply to post by semperfortis


Whats your take on the mini 17 as opposed to the .22lr? My choice would hinge on range and velocity. I'd take the one with more stopping power out to about 100 yards...I can skirt by anything further and I wouldn't shoot game much further either because then you have to go and get it after you've alerted yourself with the shots report. Also I recently bought an su-16 as an alternative to the heavier AR platform and would like your take. The su folds with one pin is all polymer and weighs 3lbs less on the whole. Also it isn't direct impingement it has the blowback piston like the AK.

I'll use my avatar to club a deer eating potato peels off the deck.

One thing to consider if you're going to be in bear country...

No matter which weapon you choose, it needs to be ready to fire as quickly as possible. Having a shotgun strapped to your pack will get you killed.

Some of the more experienced hunting guides that I know use a chest harness with a cross-draw holster. Their gun us never more than 1-3 seconds from being ready to fire.

Now, I wouldn't suggest this -- but a guy here shot a bear with his taser gun. His had the prongs that shoot out and stick into your target. The bear went down, onto it's back, and had it's legs up in the air. You don't want to know what a bear being tased sounds like. I'm still bothered by it to this day.

Also, I know guys that reload their own rounds, and will stack "specialty" rounds in a particular order for maximum stopping power.

reply to post by semperfortis

Your choices are good for men with big hands and built like linebackers...

For the rest of humanity, a smaller caliper is a must for accuracy sake.
My hands are small so I ditched my Glock 22 40caliper for a 9mm.

Get real Semper...

MystikMushroom
Now, I wouldn't suggest this -- but a guy here shot a bear with his taser gun. His had the prongs that shoot out and stick into your target. The bear went down, onto it's back, and had it's legs up in the air. You don't want to know what a bear being tased sounds like. I'm still bothered by it to this day.

That painted a pretty vivid picture in my mind. I'm almost ready to pay money to see it. What happened when he got up?

MystikMushroom
Also, I know guys that reload their own rounds, and will stack "specialty" rounds in a particular order for maximum stopping power.

I reload. I try to find the best performing load for each of my weapons and maintain an exact standard. I used to reload for a friend. I made him buy his own tool heads/die sets just so I wouldn't need to make adjustments to my own. When I moved overseas he bought his own press.

I've done enough range time to meet lots of people who do that kind of specialty stacking. I just don't think it would work for me ... but they swear by it. Most of 'em though, they finally give up and go with a standard load that works best in their personal firearm. It's kind of easy to adjust a powder charge for point of aim consistency, but there's a trade-off in other bullet performance expectations.

If you're thinking about reloading, I recommend you NOT take it on as a hobby. You really have to get into it. People think there's also a chance to save money ... there isn't. You wind up shooting a LOT more. After that ... you want a better press.

reply to post by AlaskanDad

I agree with you on the .223. I like it for varminting, but I stick to the 30.06 for hunting.

I've never fired a .223 from a pistol platform and I'm wondering if it'll crush my palms and break my wrists. My old man said it kicks pretty hard ... and that was after I didn't hear him complain about the .44 anymore.

At my age and level of strength, I'm wondering if I'll even be able to hold it up and fire from an unsupported position.

**Note to G146541: The TC is a beautiful and versatile target pistol. And ... I agree with you on Glock for personal protection. Semper is right though. The .357 is probably a go-to gun if you're gonna bug out. I try to keep a S&W 640 in my pocket and a 686 in my car ... but I go nowhere without my Glock.

jimmyx
I would use your recommendations if I had the training to overcome the fear and tenseness of a gun-firing situation, I don't....even cops who have had training at ranges, miss a lot of their shots in those situations. this isn't like one of the cops shows, where one or two shots at 50 to 75 yards is all that is needed to hit their marks, this would be real life, nervous, panicky, shaking, firing......so, for many of the inexperienced shooters out there, the logical choice would be a.... 18 1/2 inch barreled 12 gauge pump, 8 shot shotgun....45 semi-auto with a 10 round clip handgun...for food (game) 22lr rifle...in my civilian way of thinking.

Get past it through practice. If you practice a LOT what you do in a bad situation will be reflexive. The most important thing to practice for such situations is your draw. You might feel stupid drawing on yourself in a mirror ... but don't let that stop you.

Remember ... your pistola is the tool you use to get to your long gun.

Asktheanimals
Missing from the discussion here are tactical considerations. One of the biggest problems I can forsee is that security at night will be more important that during the day. Anyone set on raiding your house will probably try to do so when it's dark. Thus the need for night vision scopes

This cannot be understated ... if you can afford it. And if you can't, I recommend you start saving. Anyone with the ability to see in the dark has a truly unfair advantage over anyone who can't.

I would add that if someone is going to raid your house ... being inside your house is the very worst place to be.

What is your opinion on .45acp vs 9mm? Is the stopping power more valuable than more rounds?

reply to post by Snarl


My friend took down a caribou with his .223 AR. The season before he used a .308 and it blew half the chest off the poor caribou.

I'm not to sure what happened to the bear. . . I think the guy was either active duty or retired LEO. It made the news, however, because Fish & Game was NOT happy. They turned it into a PSA about what NOT to do.

There's a video someplace floating around...Until I saw the video, I had no idea bears could make noises like that. It sounded like a crying baby, a manatee, horse and cow all rolled up into one.

reply to post by muse7


I know a lot of guys around here that use 45 ACP revolvers for bear protection...

muse7
What is your opinion on .45acp vs 9mm? Is the stopping power more valuable than more rounds?

edit on 11/18/2013 by muse7 because: (no reason given)

The 9mm has plenty of stopping power.

If you're looking for a choice, the best thing to do is take them both for a side-by-side test drive. The thing about guns is that no one can tell you what's going to work best for you.

One thing a casual observer in this thread might overlook is the OP's limitation on makes, models, and calibers. All the best shooters in the world use only what works for them.

Dad gummit op.....you stopped in the handgun section right before you got to something bigger than a .357.....
What about Grizz...?

Snarl

Asktheanimals
Missing from the discussion here are tactical considerations. One of the biggest problems I can forsee is that security at night will be more important that during the day. Anyone set on raiding your house will probably try to do so when it's dark. Thus the need for night vision scopes

This cannot be understated ... if you can afford it. And if you can't, I recommend you start saving. Anyone with the ability to see in the dark has a truly unfair advantage over anyone who can't.

I would add that if someone is going to raid your house ... being inside your house is the very worst place to be.

edit on 18112013 by Snarl because: Omitted word

One way past the night vision sticker shock. Instead of goggles, get a monocular. Mounted on headgear, it works almost as well. Odd to get used to at first, but, imo, has the advantage of leaving one eye open to natural light, the other to the night vision.

Enjoying the conversation re: pros and cons on firearms/calibers. Any viewpoints on the Ruger 10/22 takedown? Wondering about the accuracy. A packable rifle does sound advantageous.

reply to post by MystikMushroom

My friend took down a caribou with his .223 AR. The season before he used a .308 and it blew half the chest off the poor caribou.

The reason I don't hunt with .223 is because the bullet has a tendency to fracture. I wanted to get a .308 upper for my AR, but they got real scarce during the last gun buyout. I shoot lefty and that's another hurdle in and of itself. We'll have to see what the market has to offer when I finally get back home.

I like the .308 because it's easy on the barrel. My absolute favorite round is the 300 Win Mag and I'd never part with my Browning ... but, I wouldn't know where to begin with a barrel replacement. Maybe someone can offer up some advice there. My 30.06 is probably about due too. Last time I had it out I had some accuracy issues and I'm not sure if it was me or the barrel.

One of these days I'm gonna get out and try my luck with larger game (like that caribou hunt). I'm shooting and my son's hauling (he just doesn't know it yet -heh heh-). I guess caribou territory is bear territory by default and I'm paying attention to what you know.

My big caliber rifle would be a 300 Win Mag. That round can easily take down a Grizzly.

My 2nd big caliber would be the 12Ga Shot Gun - slugs. For when I just piss off that Grizzly (or other bear) and need an up-close gun. Bears can cover distance quicker than that fat lady at the Chinese Buffets that just discovered a new batch of crab legs are out. No sense in running, you won't win - the lady will beat you to it every time.

My other calibers would be a bit different:

9mm: You can easily conceal a pistol with 12 rounds on your person if needed. The carbine fired 9mm's are said to have the same ballistics of a 357. Can be used to hunt medium game/hogs.

7.62x39: Cheap and can be used to hunt whitetail with no problems (using a hunting and not a military surplus round). The 30-30 would be a good replacement if you don't plan on having any reason to have the 7.62x39.

The 12 Gauge shotgun would need to take 3"+ shells. Will make hunting water foul that much easier.

22LR: You covered it all. I'd go with bolt action or lever action. They handle the super high velocities rounds better than any semi-auto.

Where do my two .50 cals come into play?

I thought you were actually talking big calibers.

reply to post by semperfortis

I used to think my 357 rounds would be the ultimate in "stop the semi-truck-elephant-charging". But, as Ive split my carrying between revolver and semi-auto... and with the recoiling and chance to miss with a large caliber...Im of the mind these days my 3-4 9mm shots fired to each single magnum fired and possibly missing? I think Im better off being sure with a firing ratio of 4-6-8 9mms to 2-3 357 large caliber shots that may miss their intended target.

I used to feel real safe with the 357 magnum -6 shot...until learning how many more 9mm shots I could get off in a fraction of the time without reloading. A 357 six-rounds per cylinder needing reloading after 6 shots....compared to 17 rounds per mag of 9mm without reloading...Ive a better chance of success.

I can though see the benefit still of carrying the magnum and the semi-auto together. "Man-Hand-Cannons" do have their place.....

Thought i would add some of my own thoughts to this, while i feel that the OP is a wonderful setup and I have nothing against his views as they are spot on i have some of my own feelings when having a survival set up. As far as a shotgun goes, I like my pump action 12ga and while I may be taking a risk with a few more working parts, it has served me well for a long time and I feel comfortable with it and a big part of that is my trust in my weapon. As for a rifle I currently have a Savage Model 10 .308, it is a very effective round and ammo is available. As far as the "big" calibers go I prefer it, and I prefer a bolt action. I also have a both a semi auto and single shot .22 and whichever I can grab first is going with me, if not both. .22 rounds are everywhere and it is just hard to beat. I also have a compound bow and feel that the stealthiness of quite, reliable bow shouldn't be overlooked. I can retrieve my arrows, unlike bullets, and if taken care of should last me quite awhile. My pistol choice would be a little different, while I like a .357 revolver and would prefer to have one, just in case, I prefer to carry my Springfield XD 9mm. My reasoning is because I'm comfortable with it, it can take a beating and keeps firing. I was a huge Glock fanboy for years, until I purchased my XD. After firing the XD the Glock didn't feel right any more, it felt loose and the trigger felt spongy, but that is my personal feelings and as I stated early, a big factor of what you choice to carry should be comfortability. A lot of people would choice a .223 or 5.57mm and while I haven't listed it, it would be a great choice for a rifle, in my opinion, and the reason for that would be the availability of ammo. In a true SHTF situation you have to imagine that what rounds are going to be available, and part of my caliber choices have came from that. I choice 9mm and .308 as they are used prolifically, they are both NATO rounds and many police agencies use them. The same goes for the 12ga and the the .22 is a gun that ammo is always out there. These have been my choices and what I have set aside for when it all goes down.