Is religion a mental disorder?

FlyersFan
Already did. I gave a few basic links showing that religion and religious beliefs are part of basic human evolutionary psychology and therefore it's not a 'disorder' to believe.

You certainly did NOT refute the medical and psychological data.
You painted over it with pink and fuzzy emotional appeals or unrelated historical references which do NOTHING to disprove the facts.
You instead (once more) proved your abject fear of facts and inability to process has crippled your ability to reason objectively.
All you said was:

"I don't need irrefutable facts, concrete evidence or reasoning to to establish the truth of a lie."

Congratulations...you have now conceded the arguement as I knew you always would and I thank you for your help in establishing the OP as 100% correct.

-Peace-

BlueMule

FlyersFan
It's a basic part of the human condition and always has been.

I totally agree. But in a traditional society, a shaman can have extreme religious experiences and a 'mana personality' while functioning perfectly in a societal role that is validated and supported by the society.

Today, its much more difficult for 'mana personalities' to find a role in society that they can function in.

edit on 23-11-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Tell me about it brother! Can you imagine what it would be like,
if you would have normally been a big wig in a culture for tens
of thousands of years; but now you are reduced to posting on
ATS!

And so as all religious threads tend to do...this one has now decended into the "spiritual high fiving" phase with complete indifference to the OP or the actual facts established by it.
How typical.

-Peace-

reply to post by BlueMule


Mule! I friended you.

Science has taken the cosmological function from religion but religion still holds the social function. In a war of incomplete / dysfunctional mythological systems (and here I count science as a dysfunctional mythological system), the mystic is caught between clashing archetypal images in the collective unconscious.

I have a man crush on you.. you get it.. you get why
I am caught equally between science and spirituality..
neither is correct.. and as a 'mana personality' and
a former nuclear engineer and current principal
systems engineer.. I'm doing my best to chart
a middle ground.. its not for the faint of heart.

wildtimes
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

It's basic evolutionary psychology. (I LOVE
evolutionary psychology .. it's fascinating)

Indeed. It certainly is...endlessly.

EP is plagued with the naturalistic fallacy, not to mention it is above all Sociobiology (one way in which Dawkins uses it) and Social Darwinism all rolled into one.

we've been down this road before, and when people with this philosophical belief principal enter the political arena, you get book burnings and human furnaces built.

it is a very fringe taboo subject... in America our academia usually write these few off as fringe lunacy.

"where one burns books there too will they burn bodies"

reply to post by SisyphusRide

we've been down this road before, and when people with this philosophical belief principal enter the political arena, you get book burnings and human furnaces built.

So.....
it's better to shut up about the truth? Actually, the book burnings and human furnaces are examples of the theory itself. Are you saying that bringing it up will result in death? Gee, now, there's a new idea.

it is a very fringe taboo subject... in America...

Wait. Did you just say "in America"? Sys, I am a born here, red-headed, blue-eyed AMERICAN.
With an advanced degree from an "ivy-league caliber" university, in social sciences. Where/who did you think I was???

our academia usually write these few off as fringe lunacy.

Uh, no. They don't. You're thinking of "paranormal" squelchers like James Randi (a total jerk)....
and the New Apostolic Reformation....the Pentecostals and thumpers, and the militant atheists.


"Fringe lunacy"??? A very taboo subject, eh?.......says you.
Wait, you never answered the question:
Are you a psychicatrist or a sociologist?


Seriously, man. Get with the program, or leave the class.

Oh, don't forget your reading list as posted above (and again below).
About the author:

Robert Wright (born 1957) is an American journalist, scholar, and prize-winning author of best-selling books about science, evolutionary psychology, history, religion, and game theory, including The Evolution of God, Nonzero: The Logic of Human Destiny, The Moral Animal, and Three Scientists and Their Gods: Looking for Meaning in an Age of Information. He is the co-founder and editor-in-chief of Bloggingheads.tv. He is a Senior Fellow at the New America Foundation,[1] a think tank that has been described as radical centrist in orientation.[2]

I haven't got to the fourth one yet. Must be new. But you betcher bottom dollar, I will.

reply to post by wildtimes


oh I'm with the program...

History reads like a theistic religion in itself... it doesn't matter what time you choose or which region.

my atheistic friends just have not massed enough of a following to take the theistic documents and writings of the world (history) and set them upon the pyre.

they commit this act in a spiritual way though, it's almost ritual...

reply to post by SisyphusRide


I see, so...you're not going to tell us what your credentials are to speak about psychiatry and sociology.

Not sure where you're coming from, pal, but, your style leaves a lot to be desired. (i.e., e.g. SOURCES?)

reply to post by beatbox


I think the term Mental disorder is the problem here, it only gets its meaning from a persons perspective in other words its a meaningless term that can a apply to anything that occurs in the mind.

Perspective my friends, its all about perspective.

SHgNaTrinityinme1333
reply to post by beatbox

 

I think the term Mental disorder is the problem here, it only gets its meaning from a persons perspective in other words its a meaningless term that can a apply to anything that occurs in the mind.

No.
The mechanism at work here is called: "ideology".
It has specific meaning which applies directly to the evidence presented in this thread...in this case mental trauma which is responsible for the disorder itself.
Abuse causes brain damage.
That brain damage in turn forms the religious (or political) ideology.
That ideology then taints evidence and reason and finally...
With evidence and reason corrupted, we have a population of rocket scientists that believe demons are actually murdering families in America and that talking jewish zombies make perfect sence.
The only problem here is that religious people don't like hearing facts or concrete evidence that dispells the notion that they are well-adjusted, sane individuals.

-Peace-

wildtimes
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

I see, so...you're not going to tell us what your credentials are to speak about psychiatry and sociology.

Not sure where you're coming from, pal, but, your style leaves a lot to be desired. (i.e., e.g. SOURCES?)

do I need credentials to speak?

see that's that Evolutionary Psychology kicking in... we are equals my friend.

if you need sources to some of the comments I make even though they are my own... Google it.

reply to post by SisyphusRide


So you are just making pointless ascertions then?
Got it.

-Peace-

Eryiedes

The only problem here is that religious people don't like hearing facts or concrete evidence that dispells the notion that they are well-adjusted, sane individuals.

No the problem here is people are getting their notions of religion from THEIR LOCAL RELIGION, their local culture... tabloids and movies and neighbors and their own local institutions. As a result their views are myopic and lead to threads like this.

That's why everyone should be a comparativist.

reply to post by Eryiedes


Again perspective is key here.

Ideology is a set of ideas that form how you see the world. A way of seeing the world, so as long as your here right now living, you have an ideology. Nothing to do with being brain damaged I'm not sure how anyone could even make that mistake.

SHgNaTrinityinme1333
Perspective my friends, its all about perspective.

This is false.
Clinically insanity (by means of mental disorder) can not be cast in a favorable light due to perspective.

"He's crazy...but he's not hurting anyone."

Problem is this is also false because they are still crazy and they will force that insanity onto another generation through mental abuse and the exploitation of children, thereby continuing the cycle of abherant behavior by preying on those too young to understand what's being done to them.
Are you going to tell us now that exploitation of the young can be cast in a different light by perspective?
No, I don't think you will...and no one who can claim to be sane ever would.

-Peace-

BlueMule
No the problem here is people are getting their notions of religion from THEIR LOCAL RELIGION, their local culture... tabloids and movies and neighbors and their own local institutions.

Local Religion?
I'm sorry but you have either not seen the material presented here or you have ignored it.
Religion is passed on from parent to child in most cases.
Whether local or Vatican or Islam or Talmud or whatever religious text you cite the underlying mechanic is always trauma.
It can be physical or mental and can even afflict adults in later life.
So trying to make a destinction based on location ignores the underlying psychological and medical mechanic which remains constant, regardless of "Local" or "Distant" distinctions.

(I'll watch the video later...meanwhile, please do not derail the thread with "comparativism"...this is about mental disorder)

-Peace-

Eryiedes
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

So you are just making pointless ascertions then?
Got it.

-Peace-

research and educate yourself if you read something that goes against your train of thought.

that's what a true scientific mind does...

if you want someone to constantly feed you facts and sources (which change all the time by the way, as does our understanding) then so be it.

but how is one supposed to advance and have flavor if all they are doing is debating and throwing facts and writings from someone else at eachother? (other people words)

I don't know where you're from... I practice American Free Speech...

I am an auto mechanic and I am a layman from the United States, those are my credentials

reply to post by Eryiedes


You have a very mixed up view, exploitation of the young? I see you have a very deep hatred of religion. Every single ideology a person can have whether its religious or something more dense like evidence and fact can be dangerous for a person depending on how that ideology has left the world for him to perceive. There is nothing mentally wrong with someone that believes in a religion. Yes that religion can shrink his perceptive and only allow him to have a condensed view of the world but so can only believing what you can see and prove.