The Cash-Landrum suppressed government file

For the record, I should also add that at the time of the incident I was a fellow employee with Schuessler at a NASA contractor, McDonnell Douglas Technical Services, that helped staff Mission Control and provide shuttle mission planning and training. He was always congenial and professional in our relationship, and mentioned the highlights of the case which he clearly felt a significant one. He knew of my affiliation with Klass and the CSICOP 'UFO group', and I never was asked to help in the case or check up on anything -- and frankly I wasn't all that interested in getting involved. Maybe a missed opportunity.

reply to post by JimOberg

Thanks for that info. It's hard to parse it exactly, but I find some interesting suggestions in it.

BTW: NOT to go off topic here on this important thread, but I believe I remember you looking for more information on whatever fool thing Puharich had going with his "Space Kids."

Member cuckooold recently brought it to the forum's attention that Keith Basterfield turned up some interesting material:

In July 1975 Puhrich wrote to Hermans that "I am now turning my attention to healing work, and work with children. I started an experimental school. The 9 "space kids" are all here." (p.132.) Hermans' 14 year old son Andy was at Ossining at that time. "All the kids lived by themselves at the "Turkey Farm" a house on the estate and maintained a strict daily routine of meditation, dream telling sessions, hobby time workouts and swimming. They took turns cleaning the house and do the cooking. Either Andrija or somebody else would give talks on the hazards of drugs or smoking..." (p.132.) Speaking of her son Andy, Hermans said "...Andy never told me what it meant to be a 'space kid' until recently. If he had told me then that each kid was hypnotized in order to go back to his 'parent civilisation' I would probably have flipped and kept him home."

ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au...

Also, Keith and I both turned up an email for--most probably--THE Valerie Ransone, but I didn't get a reply back from her and as far as I know Keith didn't either.

The GUT
reply to post by JimOberg

 

Thanks for that info. It's hard to parse it exactly, but I find some interesting suggestions in it.

BTW: NOT to go off topic here on this important thread, but I believe I remember you looking for more information on whatever fool thing Puharich had going with his "Space Kids."

Member cuckooold recently brought it to the forum's attention that Keith Basterfield turned up some interesting material:

In July 1975 Puhrich wrote to Hermans that "I am now turning my attention to healing work, and work with children. I started an experimental school. The 9 "space kids" are all here." (p.132.) Hermans' 14 year old son Andy was at Ossining at that time. "All the kids lived by themselves at the "Turkey Farm" a house on the estate and maintained a strict daily routine of meditation, dream telling sessions, hobby time workouts and swimming. They took turns cleaning the house and do the cooking. Either Andrija or somebody else would give talks on the hazards of drugs or smoking..." (p.132.) Speaking of her son Andy, Hermans said "...Andy never told me what it meant to be a 'space kid' until recently. If he had told me then that each kid was hypnotized in order to go back to his 'parent civilisation' I would probably have flipped and kept him home."

ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com.au...

Also, Keith and I both turned up an email for--most probably--THE Valerie Ransone, but I didn't get a reply back from her and as far as I know Keith didn't either.

edit on 13-11-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

I'm also chasing this line of inquiry. The question that this really raises is: who were the children involved and where are they today? I've got a hunch that this all might have something to do with intelligence amplification work - which SRI was looking into along with the paranormal stuff.

reply to post by JimOberg

He knew of my affiliation with Klass and the CSICOP 'UFO group', and I never was asked to help in the case or check up on anything

Not really surprising given he says this ...

And other people put words in your mouth. Jim Oberg’s been really good at putting words in McDivitt’s mouth and even called him “a bleary-eyed astronaut” like he couldn’t see anything which was a bunch of baloney. He would not have been flying if he couldn’t see.
www.thiemeworks.com...

Funny really as I suspect that's what he's done in this case .

This is an old case, but its a baby compared to Roswell, and in many ways just as significant. Not everyone will be familiar enough with it to immediately realize how this new document affects the credibility of the case- it undercuts the following claims by the investigator:

The sighting location was identified by witnesses.
The damaged road was photographed by Schuessler.
The scene was checked for radioactivity by Schuessler and Holt.
Measurements were taken from the where the car stopped to where the UFO was, allowing estimates to be made of the size of the object.
The road and trees were scorched by the UFO.
The damaged section of the road was removed and repaved.

Some "selective storytelling" can be said to be expected when presenting a UFO case, but this seems to go far beyond emphasizing the positive and downplaying the negative. This appears to be an act of fabrication.

There are a number of other investigator claims in the case that deserve a second look. (Links to articles.)
The UFO was a giant Diamond ringed by Blue Lights
A Helicopter Pilot admitted to flying with the UFO
DAIG Investigator George Sarran covered up evidence of 100 Helicopters

Few have questioned the credibility of the witnesses, but it seems there are plenty of reasons to question the credibility of the investigation of the incident.

reply to post by CardDown

So it begs the question: Why the fakery by Schuessler? To what purpose? Did he just want a "big" case of his own? Or maybe something more sinister?

reply to post by The GUT

Did he just want a "big" case of his own? Or maybe something more sinister?

That is a good question but it's one we can only speculate over unless there's more out there to link him to the masters of sinister .
I'm undecided but given the already known (NIDS) and his background with MUFON it's awfully tempting to put two and two together

reply to post by The GUT


TG, I set out just to examine the case. Checking the facts turned up some surprises. I don't want to speculate on John Schuessler's motivations. He was a busy man with his family, contract job with NASA, deputy director of MUFON, VISIT, his UFO column and other duties and interests. He had a lot to deal with and no doubt, errors crept in.

“I’ve personally handled about 40,000 to 50,000 reports from all over the world, but very few from the Houston area.”
John F. Schuessler,Conroe Courier story by Cathy Gordon Feb. 23, 1981

When a major case was dropped in his backyard, he pounced on it and gave a lot of TLC.

whos crash landing?

ATSZOMBIE
whos crash landing?

Crash Landing- Country singer- something of a drinker, I hear.
- - -

But if you are interested in the Cash-Landrum UFO case, here's something new:

An Examination of Betty Cash's Medical Records

Another batch of historical UFO documents for your reading pleasure.

reply to post by CardDown


The Cash-Landrum encounter is one of the most compelling and undeniable in record. Unfortunately, the records that do exist, are still not available to the public.

reply to post by redoubt


Those records are important, but even with them we won't get all our answers. Some are revealed in Dr. Rank's analysis of the Cash medical files linked above.

There are two other files I'd like to see:
MUFON's file on the case, especially the initial report, which would best document the sighting location evidence.
The Air Force legal team files, researching the helicopters and any black project that might have been the UFO.

I'm hoping that by making some of the files I have public, the discussion will cause some of the others to shake loose.

BTW, skeptic Robert Sheaffer has joined the discussion on this case, and even refers to this thread: Between a Beer Joint and Some kind of Highway Warning Sign: the "Classic" Cash-Landrum Case Unravels

reply to post by CardDown


It seems that in this case all roads lead to John F. Schuessler , given his involvement with NASA ,MUFON and more importantly this case wouldn't he be an excellent AMA guest

I've just placed a request on the AMA thread , it's a long shot but an opportunity to question him directly would be invaluable in getting to the bottom of this case in my opinion .

CardDown
...I'm hoping that by making some of the files I have public, the discussion will cause some of the others to shake loose.

BTW, skeptic Robert Sheaffer has joined the discussion on this case, and even refers to this thread: Between a Beer Joint and Some kind of Highway Warning Sign: the "Classic" Cash-Landrum Case Unravels

That's great because your excellent detective work deserves more attention than it has received here so far. I'm pretty sure the ripples will continue to spread. I mean, this case makes almost every ufologist's list---pro or armchair, and these are important developments.

Sheaffer's usage of "unravels" probably isn't accurate in my opinion. The core for me is the basic witness testimony. Shoddy ufology might unravel, but unless the witnesses are "unraveled" we still have a compelling and enduring mystery.

BTW: 10 Flags? Sheesh. I think this thread deserves a do over. Between CardDown's blog and ATS this was pretty much an exclusive of epic ufology.

The GUT

CardDown
...I'm hoping that by making some of the files I have public, the discussion will cause some of the others to shake loose.

BTW, skeptic Robert Sheaffer has joined the discussion on this case, and even refers to this thread: Between a Beer Joint and Some kind of Highway Warning Sign: the "Classic" Cash-Landrum Case Unravels

That's great because your excellent detective work deserves more attention than it has received here so far. I'm pretty sure the ripples will continue to spread. I mean, this case makes almost every ufologist's list---pro or armchair, and these are important developments.

Sheaffer's usage of "unravels" probably isn't accurate in my opinion. The core for me is the basic witness testimony. Shoddy ufology might unravel, but unless the witnesses are "unraveled" we still have a compelling and enduring mystery.

BTW: 10 Flags? Sheesh. I think this thread deserves a do over. Between CardDown's blog and ATS this was pretty much an exclusive of epic ufology.

edit on 15-11-2013 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

I would suggest that the civilian research groups need to hold themselves to a higher level of investigative standards. This case, if Sheaffer had had only made a stronger effort to collect information insitu, could have been some really important evidence for the presence of something.

That being said, John Alexander doesn't dismiss it. So it would seem that something strange happened - the investigation just dropped the ball. >_<

1ofthe9
...That being said, John Alexander doesn't dismiss it. So it would seem that something strange happened - the investigation just dropped the ball. >_<

On the other hand, that fact, along with Schuessler's NIDS connection as pointed out by gortex, might mean that it was government after all and it's being covered up and spun as ET.

I can't help it: Those NIDS/Aviary guys point North, I'ma automatically spin my head to the other compass points just to make sure.

The GUT

1ofthe9
...That being said, John Alexander doesn't dismiss it. So it would seem that something strange happened - the investigation just dropped the ball. >_<

On the other hand, that fact, along with Schuessler's NIDS connection as pointed out by gortex, might mean that it was government after all and it's being covered up and spun as ET.

I can't help it: Those NIDS/Aviary guys point North, I'ma automatically spin my head to the other compass points just to make sure.

www.astronautix.com...

You might also want to look at the work done by a guy named Gary Hudson.

reply to post by 1ofthe9

Interesting technological candidate for the UFO, but what I'm seeing about hudson's work, it seems to have come about two years too late for the case. But, I see there were earlier programs that may have predated it.

I'm in the dark here, so if you can help pinpoint a good suspect, please help me out!

To add to my last post: if we want to posit that this was the result of a military test vehicle, I think it might represent some kind of effort towards a ballistic sub-orbiter 'hopper'. Something along the lines of Bono's* SASSTO I wish I could make a stronger argument by suggesting it was a response to the debacle that resulted from Operation Eagle Claw, but the fact these events occurred in the same year makes for a really, really implausible development timeline.

Now that being said, cryogenic fuels and rough-field military vehicles don't really mix. What I know of nuclear thermal rocket development rules out TIMBERWIND - that program came after this and lasted until around 1992 I think, and it was just on paper. Now, DUMBO's thrust to weight advantage over NERVA might be worth considering, but if they did have a NTR hopper, they wouldn't be flying it around Texas. That's what Jackass Flats in Nevada is for. I would suggest...

1. SSTO/Hopper's tend to work best if you have a high ISP motor.
2. Cryogenic fuels are out.
3. The witnesses seem to have had medical consequences as a result of the experience.

From this, I would think that our mysterious flying machine was running off a tripropellant, possibly air-augmented, rocket engine that was burning LOX, kerosene, and borane 'zip fuel'. Now the borane fuel program in the 1950's wasn't exactly a successful program...but if you really wanted something like I've proposed it might be worth a look. Borane fuels (I think they also looked at beryllium - but I'd have to dig through my aerospace books/pdfs) also turned out to be pretty nasty things, and the combustion products were just as unpleasant.

Cash and Landrum might have been suffering from exposure to the toxic exhaust, rather than radiation. This would account for the lack of residual radiation (from fuel element corrosion and neutron activation) on the highway. Clean up could have been accomplished by deliberate washing, or natural weather. Traces might (I ain't an expert on pollution) still be present at the site, and if this was the case, might be uncovered via sampling at regular intervals between the reference points that the witnesses provided. I wouldn't put much stock in an aircraft carrier as a point of origin/destination for the weird flying thingie, because something like this would have leaked ages ago. Plus the toxic exhaust -> bad news for the enlisted guys on board, and it would be bad for the aircraft on deck (although NBC decontamination via wash-down would have been easy I suppose) - plus the deck itself would need to be re-enforced or something because rocket exhaust would tear it up/melt it. The helicopters could have been range safety/crash site security/decontamination/rescue, and I'd venture that the number was probably overestimated by a factor of ten or so. It was dark and most of their attention would have been on the Weird Flying Thing(tm).

I want to make clear that I am not an engineer, or have a background in STEM. I'm just a history major with my primary interests in military and space history - and a closet interest in esoteric things. I'd really appreciate it if JimOberg would tear my little thesis here to pieces, as he's the guy with my dream job. He'd also probably know more about any work done with tripropellant engines, which the Russians seem to have been more keen on then the states. I just figure that this is the best match for what the investigation seems to suggest if we accept a human origin for this Weird Flying Thingie(tm).



*I've had a soft spot for Bono since I ran into his ROMBUS proposal.

Ah nuts, check the comments. I ain't the first to hit on the borane idea.

Fluorine based fuels were also examined IIRC. The problem with the high energy fuels is that they are HYSTERICALLY reactive and thus incredibly dangerous to handle, as well as extremely toxic. If we had access to the results of hair and blood work (if it was done) - things would be a lot easier to pin down.