Military court releases audio of moment marine sergeant shot Afghan

reply to post by Danbones

well, ain't that the definition of blowback....?
say wasn't 911 if you beleive the OS, supposedly blowback?

Blow back seems a reasonable term to use. It goes both directions too. It could very fairly be stated the cold blooded ruthlessness this guy displayed likely wasn't a born trait ..and represents blow back from what he's experienced of the enemy, represented in that moment by the man he shot.

Posting one of these would be a gross T&C violation, but the videos of the beheadings of prisoners and hostages are out there. The guys the 'victim' here represent....took real pride in filming the horror they carried out (and still do). So, does that justify execution at point blank range? Not likely...and it's good this in court. Does it show it's a wide ranging conflict with evil on both sides? Yup... It does in my opinion.

Of course the difference is .. We prosecute our guys when they are caught outright doing these things.

NavyDoc

SuperFrog

Wrabbit2000

 

In all fairness and honesty, where does your knowledge of flesh and blood members of the armed forces come from? Have you served and/or been deployed? I haven't, personally, to throw that out, as I'm asking it myself. My base of reference comes from some of those closest to me having served in more than one of America's wars of the past few decades.

Just curious, given your hard opinions and what sounds like must come from personal and direct experience to form them so definitively?

I was victim of war crime more then once in past 20-some years. Does that count?

And I never said whole army is criminal, just that there are criminals, as those who cold blooded killed this man, inside military, thanks to lower requirements to join military.

You were? Really? In what context. I have to hear details. One does not simply throw something like that out and not back it up. If true, it could make some news, both national and international.

Victim of multiple war crimes over 20 years? That is fascinating. We must have details.

This man willingly broke the Geneva convention and then admitted his crime. He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Don't be surprised when you train a person to be a killer and you define an enemy that deserves to be killed and then people get killed. Peace is superior to war. 'muricans seem to either forget that or are ignorant of the facts.

Hey, I have an idea, if you own a business out there, why don't you hire more people that know how to righteously dehumanize an enemy, exterminate them, joke about it over in the chow hall and then pick up a pay check?

What could go wrong?

If you are in the military and this strikes a nerve, I assure you, I completely understand why you have the strong impulse to kill me. Maybe this will be a wake up call that ex-military need to get deprogrammed from soldiering. Do some farming, interact with children, re-humanize someone you hate etc. It's important if this society is going to have a chance.

Oh, and don't let your kids grow up to be mercenaries.

reply to post by Vasa Croe


IMHO, there is more than moral behind Geneva convention and all those rules that even those willing to kill each other should follow.

Killing captured combatants means that in future they will much harder decide to give up, let be captured. It is historically known fact. Saving them on the other hand will mean they will be more likely to surrender, and in end will save more lives.

In war I was able to see both humanity (someone risking his and his family life in saving mine) as well wild animal character of human race. (someone killing others because they played ruff against him in soccer match?!)


reply to post by NavyDoc

Terror I survived was 'news' at the time, now everyone is trying to forget about it. Some of those responsible are dead (from natural causes) while others are in Hague, in tribunal that is another huge disappointment. Someone responsible for deaths of thousands civilians getting 30-35 years prison is IMHO lowest it could get.

SuperFrog
reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

IMHO, there is more than moral behind Geneva convention and all those rules that even those willing to kill each other should follow.

Killing captured combatants means that in future they will much harder decide to give up, let be captured. It is historically known fact. Saving them on the other hand will mean they will be more likely to surrender, and in end will save more lives.

In war I was able to see both humanity (someone risking his and his family life in saving mine) as well wild animal character of human race. (someone killing others because they played ruff against him in soccer match?!)


reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Terror I survived was 'news' at the time, now everyone is trying to forget about it. Some of those responsible are dead (from natural causes) while others are in Hague, in tribunal that is another huge disappointment. Someone responsible for deaths of thousands civilians getting 30-35 years prison is IMHO lowest it could get.

Too vague. What are you referring to? Kosevo? What dates?

InverseLookingGlass
Don't be surprised when you train a person to be a killer and you define an enemy that deserves to be killed and then people get killed. Peace is superior to war. 'muricans seem to either forget that or are ignorant of the facts.

Hey, I have an idea, if you own a business out there, why don't you hire more people that know how to righteously dehumanize an enemy, exterminate them, joke about it over in the chow hall and then pick up a pay check?

What could go wrong?

If you are in the military and this strikes a nerve, I assure you, I completely understand why you have the strong impulse to kill me. Maybe this will be a wake up call that ex-military need to get deprogrammed from soldiering. Do some farming, interact with children, re-humanize someone you hate etc. It's important if this society is going to have a chance.

Oh, and don't let your kids grow up to be mercenaries.

LOL. None of us wants to kill you. Drama much? Military people are just like everyone else: we have kids, we have pets, we have families who love us, we even farm and have hobbies that do not involve eating babies.

The television, turn it off.

NavyDoc
Too vague. What are you referring to? Kosevo? What dates?

Why does it mater? What are you after?

NavyDoc
LOL. None of us wants to kill you. Drama much? Military people are just like everyone else: we have kids, we have pets, we have families who love us, we even farm and have hobbies that do not involve eating babies.

The television, turn it off.

And just like you said, military people are just like everyone else - meaning you can have criminals, as in everyone else there are criminals as well... nothing new, just repeating what we already have said.


Criminal act done by military is nothing different - criminal act.

SuperFrog

NavyDoc
Too vague. What are you referring to? Kosevo? What dates?

Why does it mater? What are you after?

NavyDoc
LOL. None of us wants to kill you. Drama much? Military people are just like everyone else: we have kids, we have pets, we have families who love us, we even farm and have hobbies that do not involve eating babies.

The television, turn it off.

And just like you said, military people are just like everyone else - meaning you can have criminals, as in everyone else there are criminals as well... nothing new, just repeating what we already have said.


Criminal act done by military is nothing different - criminal act.

You made a very intense claim...that you had been victimized several times by war criminals in the last 20 years and I would like to know more about it.

Just want to say, having worked alongside the RM's in situations where they could have easily acted like this...but didn't.....please don't tar them all with the same brush. The units i worked with were utmost professional.

CX.

Yes on the one hand this is war. This is the sheer madness and insanity and erosion of a person's humanity. Someone pushed to the extremes of what is normal.

On the other hand it's notable how Afghans who committed murders or atrocities are portrayed as evil personified, unthinking animals desperate to kill western soldiers, while western soldiers who do such things are often shown to be a few bad apples or people who are under severe strain or suffering psychological trauma.

War is just utterly pointless. We always get told about supporting our brave servicemen and women but to what end? For these kinds of episodes? It looks like they're getting a good deal of support doesn't it? Those people shouldn't even be in the field.

reply to post by daaskapital

The court ruled that the video will not be released due to terrorism concerns...

But if everyone hears the audio version they won't be too fussed?

reply to post by NavyDoc

Once I record memoir I will sure post you link to amazon link... if that ever happens. Tell you the truth I was really thinking about it, but not so sure if people like to hear about it... and today yet you have more people going to more hell, and no one really cares, just like I posted in my first response on this topic.

Out of 435 congressmen and 100 senators, only 5 showed to listen to family directly impacted by drone attack.

So to sum it up, not sure that I like to share my stories, but that they shaped my response on this topic - sure they did.

SuperFrog
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Once I record memoir I will sure post you link to amazon link... if that ever happens. Tell you the truth I was really thinking about it, but not so sure if people like to hear about it... and today yet you have more people going to more hell, and no one really cares, just like I posted in my first response on this topic.

Out of 435 congressmen and 100 senators, only 5 showed to listen to family directly impacted by drone attack.

So to sum it up, not sure that I like to share my stories, but that they shaped my response on this topic - sure they did.

"Drone attack?" So you claim to have been repeatedly victimized by American war crimes? When was the congressional hearing? The hearing in the senate? Congressmen and senators don't go to the same hearings, so I assume there were two hearings? Who were the politicians who did show up?

Having 5 congressmen and/or senators show up is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. When was it and who were they?

SuperFrog
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Once I record memoir I will sure post you link to amazon link... if that ever happens. Tell you the truth I was really thinking about it, but not so sure if people like to hear about it... and today yet you have more people going to more hell, and no one really cares, just like I posted in my first response on this topic.

Out of 435 congressmen and 100 senators, only 5 showed to listen to family directly impacted by drone attack.

So to sum it up, not sure that I like to share my stories, but that they shaped my response on this topic - sure they did.

LOL...so you make the claim, then the only way you will back it up is by making someone pay you to read your memoir if you ever write one....nice.

Way to get the word out about the injustices in the world. With victims like yourself, no wonder nobody hears or does anything about any of it.....the tyrants COUNT on people not saying anything or standing up to them. What is YOUR reason for doing the same?

NavyDoc
"Drone attack?" So you claim to have been repeatedly victimized by American war crimes? When was the congressional hearing? The hearing in the senate? Congressmen and senators don't go to the same hearings, so I assume there were two hearings? Who were the politicians who did show up?

Having 5 congressmen and/or senators show up is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. When was it and who were they?

Tell me where I said that, please.

If you have read my response here, you would find link and in article list and answers to your questions.

Also for your info, 20-some years ago there was no drone attacks.


reply to post by Vasa Croe

Sorry, but I left that up to tribunal and those that can do something about it, but as I said, so far it is huge disappointment. Thing is that we, humans, don't care much about others trouble. For example, most people today don't even know what happened in Srebrenica in 1995, or in Prijedor in 1992 and 1993. That was big news in those years, and since then it was not much coverage, except every year they do mass burial for those identified in past year in Srebrenica (on 7/11 every year).

As for mentioning book, reason is that at the time I was under impression like being part of movie or book, that somehow turned into bad story.

reply to post by Kram09


Maybe they were trophy posing after the kill or something?

SuperFrog

NavyDoc
"Drone attack?" So you claim to have been repeatedly victimized by American war crimes? When was the congressional hearing? The hearing in the senate? Congressmen and senators don't go to the same hearings, so I assume there were two hearings? Who were the politicians who did show up?

Having 5 congressmen and/or senators show up is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. When was it and who were they?

Tell me where I said that, please.

If you have read my response here, you would find link and in article list and answers to your questions.

Also for your info, 20-some years ago there was no drone attacks.


reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

Sorry, but I left that up to tribunal and those that can do something about it, but as I said, so far it is huge disappointment. Thing is that we, humans, don't care much about others trouble. For example, most people today don't even know what happened in Srebrenica in 1995, or in Prijedor in 1992 and 1993. That was big news in those years, and since then it was not much coverage, except every year they do mass burial for those identified in past year in Srebrenica (on 7/11 every year).

As for mentioning book, reason is that at the time I was under impression like being part of movie or book, that somehow turned into bad story.

You said this:

Out of 435 congressmen and 100 senators, only 5 showed to listen to family directly impacted by drone attack.

It read like you were talking about your family who suffered the drone attack.

reply to post by NavyDoc


No, not my family, I was referring to article from my first post. Worth checking.

I would never know about it (as most of us living in states) if I did not hear about it on NPR. For some reason those people did not get coverage that they deserve in my opinion.

Marine B says that if the shot was heard by anyone they should say it was a warning shot.

I thought all the experts here say the military doesn't do warning shots. That audio seems to support the idea that it is a known or accepted practice. Just a British thing?