Military court releases audio of moment marine sergeant shot Afghan

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by StratosFear

 

How many thousands of years have these people lived like this and not changed?

I'm just wrapping up this semester in world history for the gen ed requirement. It covered the Persian Empire, Alexander the Great and more ..quite a bit more, going to a few thousand B.C.E..

You really want an answer to that question? (smirk)

like this, which is pretty much evidence of what you're getting at!
look at this. i mean really look

reply to post by undo


Thanks for sharing that. Really... I don't know which is worse? That it's pretty much true and accurate ...or that..I actually know what each new one represents for the people moving in next? Err... I need to get away from history courses for awhile. lol... There is such a thing as knowing it too well, I guess.

That sums it up very nicely though, I'd say.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


over a piece of real estate, no bigger than the state of new jersey

A lot of mountain top preachers on this thread. The world must definitely be a better place with all these holy people.

We weren't there but that doesn't stop you. The context is missing but that doesn't stop you. Maybe you have never been in combat but that does not stop you. What do you think a war is anyway? It's a s***load of illogical, contradicting, irreversible, random brutality. But yet you want to judge from afar. From an unassailable moral high ground only cowardice and ignorance can produce.

Maybe the kid should be strung up. Maybe he was totally justified. Not my call. It ain't yours either.

Aside from the "was it morally right or wrong?" side of this subject if I may. I personally would be very interested to hear from any member with some expertise in UK military legal procedure. If this was a civilian court I would think a direction from a judge to the jury to find the perpetrator(s) guilty would be very likely in the light of this seemingly compelling evidence, if the prosecutions case was already, or near to being beyond reasonable doubt.

What I am basically asking is can a military Board of Enquiry be directed by the Adjutant General to reach a guilty verdict as often happens with a judge and jury in civilian courts?.

reply to post by daaskapital

Sure the Afghan individual was an insurgent, but to murder the man and then suggest to his fellow Marines that the incident should be covered up, is just wrong.

To be fair it doesn't even seem like an attempted cover up. None of their stories match and all explanations kind of show no one is certain of what happened. One believes he was covering something up, the other claims he was dead already, one thinks it was just bravado but he was dead.

Odd story.

reply to post by Vasa Croe

“Marines are the best and highly trained”.... “world police force”.... “Geneva Convention”... ”justification”... “war does not mean kill all enemies soldiers, but incapacitate them”...”you just don't kill surrendered combatants”...”thugs wear uniforms today”... “intelligence on the insurgents”... “Moral high ground in war... is a ridiculous concept”...

Lots of fancy words, I can only agree with the last phrase... “is a ridiculous concept“.

What we have now and always had in war is a bunch of very young people, kids, in a foreign country where they are scared to death, and just want to see home again.

We give them high power weapons, and train them to kill or be killed at a moments notice without question or remorse.

Then one of them kills someone – and everybody wonders how this can happen? Really?...

Maybe when we spend so much time and effort to dehumanize a young mind, we shouldn't act so surprised when the training is successful now and then.

It's called a “War”, if we decide to have one, these things “happen”.

SuperFrog
Are you serious?

Even war does not mean kill all enemies soldiers, but incapacitate them and prevent them from any further harm. This solider was not by any means treat to them at the time they killed him.

This is just clear example what kind of thugs wear uniforms today, and tomorrow criminals like this might be your first neighbor. (or already are)

There is no excuse and for all of those telling they might seen bad part of war, their friends die, what would you say then for killed Afghan, who is more likely too have lost friends, family members and what not after we invaded THEIR country?! Don't get me wrong, revenge is NOT way to live life and it is utopia to think that killing will just stop...

ideals and morals are good and all but in a war zone none of that matters, only survival and things like revenge for those killed are what matters most. you can't concern yourself with whether you're right morally, fear of death can make some people willing to do anything to avoid it, even so far as to eliminate every enemy they see or any potential future enemy.
the thing is that abiding by mercy and morality make things more dangerous and difficult in war, it's humane and all but it increases the death count and reduces your chances of survival, many care more about survival and revenge than money, morals or even their own humanity.

what afghans think i'm sure they understand perfectly after seeing death enough times and feeling the same fear but thinking about that wont help you survive or make you any less angry, paranoid and fearful.

war destroys a humans mind, it makes them impaired of judgement and ruins their social, emotional and moral development for life to varying degrees, so expecting "normal" actions of veteran soldiers is rather naive and short sighted.

the Geneva convention was written by fools who do not understand their own nature and sought to restrain our instincts through laws but this kind of thing shows how pointless it is and tells me that it's only a matter of time before war destroys civilization, morals cant ignore instinct and just hope it goes away, war after war, it only creates a bigger monster over time that can't be restrained when it shows itself.

in the end rules of war don't change human nature when faced with death, society likes to put on a fragile mask but it's the same now as it was 100 years or 1,000 years ago, we can't hide from ourselves forever but no one can see that simple truth and they keep making foolish mistakes in their desire for progress and peace.

BBC news have just reported Marine A has been found guilty of murder. B and C were found not guilty.

www.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by daaskapital


I weep for humanity.
- Albert Einstein

daaskapital

A shocking audio recording of the moment an injured Afghan insurgent is shot by a Royal Marine sergeant has been released by a military court.

The pistol shot to the helpless man's chest can be clearly heard – followed by the marine telling the man: "Shuffle off this mortal coil, you #," and instructing his fellow marines: "Obviously this doesn't go anywhere, fellas … I've just broken the Geneva convention".

Three marines – who can be identified only as A, B and C – are accused of murdering the man, who had been badly wounded in a helicopter attack, in Helmand in September 2011.

Military court releases audio of moment marine sergeant shot Afghan

I actually wonder why they do any of this stuff when they are wearing recorders and video cameras. It seems quite stupid to be honest...

Sounds completely staged to me. The question is why.

It's simple.
You send a man to do the most base, most horrible thing you can imagine, kill another human being.
You put him in midst of the most violent and traumatic situation a person can experience to watch his friends being blown to pieces, crippled and maimed on a daily basis.
You deprive him of sleep, food and the basics, for days at a time.
You make him spend months, living minute by minute, never knowing if he'll make it to sunset.
After all of this, do you expect a normal person to be psychologically fit enough to understand the consequences of his actions.
The army trains them to accept death and destruction, and then at any given minute after months of witnessing said death and destruction and living with the constant fear of death, expects them to simply "switch off" and be the milkman of human kindness.

"We are not youth any longer. We don't want to take the world by storm. We are fleeing. We fly from ourselves. From our life. We were eighteen and had begun to love life and the world; and we had to shoot it to pieces. The first bomb, the first explosion, burst in our hearts. We are cut off from activity, from striving, from progress. We believe in such things no longer, we believe in the war."
— Paul Bäumer, All Quiet on the Western Front

SuperFrog
And I never said whole army is criminal, just that there are criminals, as those who cold blooded killed this man, inside military, thanks to lower requirements to join military.

Lower requirements? He was a Royal Marine for Christ's sake, one of the toughest units to even be selected for training, much less actually pass the training. They have a 50-60% drop out rate for the Marines.

On top of that, I know for a fact the UK Armed forces have for many years (going back decades) gone to great lengths to educate every Service member about the Rules of War. Once and enemy is incapacitated, you can't subject him to any inhumane treatment of summary executions, which is what this was.

I will add there have been calls for leniency, owing to "extenuating circumstances", but I think that sends the wrong message.

reply to post by SuperFrog


Just thought I'd also point out this was a British Marine and while we do have Drones, we don't have any UCAV types in service yet, so it is quite pointless banging on about drone strikes. That is an American pass time, for the moment.

ABNARTY
A lot of mountain top preachers on this thread. The world must definitely be a better place with all these holy people.

We weren't there but that doesn't stop you. The context is missing but that doesn't stop you. Maybe you have never been in combat but that does not stop you. What do you think a war is anyway? It's a s***load of illogical, contradicting, irreversible, random brutality. But yet you want to judge from afar. From an unassailable moral high ground only cowardice and ignorance can produce.

Maybe the kid should be strung up. Maybe he was totally justified. Not my call. It ain't yours either.

Which is why he has been tried in a Military court, by Officers and Men who do know and they still found him guilty. I don't know about many other countries, but our Forces take some pride in their professionalism, which includes adhering to the rules of War

And the invader of a sovereign country is......?
Had that been some Afghani waging war in, say, Chicago?
All bets are off.

That's their land that they're defending, no different than you or I would do if they rolled down our block.

They didn't.
We did.