ATS: World Reacts To Mosque Shooting; Muslim Rage

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
A battle between western/Christian culture and Islam.

Then we could with ease say that every muslim is the enemy and kill them all... Right?

The people who started this war said it was a holy war. So no matter how hard the media tries to spin it into something other than a holy war it is still a holy war to the terrorists. So we are already in the battle you referenced but the enemy will kill you if your Christian, Jew, Chinese Orthodox or Wiccan just the same. The enemy is determined to kill everyone that is not Muslim.

All Muslims are not bad but the ones fighting us in Fallujah are and all deserve a few bullets to the head.

First of all we don't have the whole story on this yet. I heard that earlier another soldier was killed by a boobytrap while checking on the status a wounded or dead insurgent. So, we really don't know the heat of the situation and what occured earlier in the day and moments before the video.

If muslims are mad because it happend in a mosque then they should be mad at the insurgents for using mosques as bases/hideouts/bunkers etc.

We don't hear much bitchin about insurgents cutting heads off unarmed civilians. Unlike the beheadings this is not normal operating procedure for our soldiers.

If he did break the law our laws will deal with him & he will be punished. We don't hear anything about them punishing their kind for beheading unarmed civilians do we? No, they just celebrate. Nobody is celebrating over here about this matter. That's the difference between us & them.


[edit on 16-11-2004 by outsider]

I sleep like a baby Gaz

I voted for the ONLY candidate that was going to bring our people home.

Like it or not a line is being drawn and those on either side are going to fight to the death. I have nothing against Muslims, hell I have several as friends but this is quickly turning bad. As long as we interfere in other countries internal affairs and as long as they keep up there "Holy War" this is not going to end till one side wipes out the other.

Neither Republicans or Democrats are going to stop nation building and the Moderate Muslims are not going to squash the fanatics so I dont see ANY hope to change, do you?

I see two possible outcomes and both are not pretty.

One is a civil war between the radicals and the moderate Muslims with the USA helping the moderates

OR

Genocide. The Muslims against pretty much everyone else. The radicals are not just fighting us they are fighting Russia, killing hindus in India, etc.

I hope I am wrong, I voted Libertarian because the do not believe in interfering in ANY other countrys affairs and would give us a THIRD option.

Which is watching the world go up in flames around us but staying out of it as much as possible.

Honestly...

I think the Marine should have shot the reporters first, then shot the terrorist...

Just My Opinion...

I think it is ok to have reporters in Iraq, but they need to show both sides of the story and not be biased towards one side or the other. If they can't do that than they shouldn't be there. Also I believe they need to show the American people really what war is, for those who have not really seen it up close. Maybe this way they wouldn't be so shocked when they do see what it is like. IMO Bad things happen and thats the way war is. Also no matter what is shown the extremist are going to make it look like the Americans are killing everyone and not caring about it. So we will still look bad in the eyes of the Muslim world.

Decorated Vietnam vet shoots wounded man in back, press gives it a pass and denigrates those bringing it up.

Iraq 2004, Soldier shoots man that is possible threat during combat operations in Fallujah, press says its a war crime.

Only difference is one shooting is on video and provides political expediency to media view of war, the other shooting was witnessed but not on film and was politically inexpedient to media wishes.


If the soldier in Iraq was subsequently blown up by the "faker" would the media be expounding on the dastardly deeds of these terrorists - I think not.

No they would have spun it to show the futility of cleaning out the terrorists of Fallujah and played this marines death as the high cost of Bush policy, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Here is my take on this....

I heard the reports on this incident this morning, one report said this soldier had just been released from medical treatment having been the victim of a feigning militant the previous day. ( he received wounds to his face from this militant.) In the same sweep, a couple of buildings over, the soldiers came upon militant casualties and while checking them out, one of them was "booby trapped" and a US soldier was killed or wounded in the blast.

From this perspective, I can see why this happened, but I could never condone it.

Do I think that it should have been shelved by the reporter? This is where I find a huge problem, our US media today has no sense of country, they all want the "big story" to make a profit even at the expense of our volunteer fighting men & women.

Instead of offering some leeway to the unit Commander, this correspondent ( who has had to be protected 24/7, by our volunteer troops), turns tail on them as soon as he thinks he has "the BIG One".

This was an NBC reporter and I am happy to say "I will never watch another show on NBC, until there is an "on air" apology for jumping on this story.

Once again, I do not condone this type of aggression on the part of our soldiers, but I understand how it could have occurred. If this soldier is found to have been in violation of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), then he will be punished.

This type of reporting has been going on since the fall of Baghdad, you really have to look for the good news happening in Iraq, but since "blood" & "Chaos" makes headlines, all the positives are lost in a mire of carbombs and beheadings......

You would think that our enemy already has enough positive press from Al Jazeera without having NBC jumping on the bandwagon, I think it is time our US media start showing the positive stories respecting the point of view of the sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, mothers, & fathers of our brave volunteer military...........

This really steams me so I probably haven't been able to show my point of view in the way I would like, but I had to respond, even while I am livid....

In this instance, I think the NBC reporter should have turned over a "copy" of the tape to the military, and let them handle it in house.

If you are an American reporter (protected by American soldiers), you should give the American soldier the benefit of the doubt.

NBC




[edit on 11/16/04 by JacKatMtn]

Originally posted by outsider
First of all we don't have the whole story on this yet. I heard that earlier another soldier was killed by a boobytrap while checking on the status a wounded or dead insurgent. So, we really don't know the heat of the situation and what occured earlier in the day and moments before the video.

Actually in all fairness the way the story is being told to defend this action by this so far un-named Marine goes like this...

"The shooting happened Saturday, one day after the Marine was wounded in the face and after another man in his unit was killed by the booby-trapped body of an insurgent."

So I guess the shooting was OK... Right?

I am afraid no matter how we judge this event, justified or not, self defence or not.. there are now many in the Islamic world who have judged us all as pure evil... That could prove to be a source of pain for all of us in the future.

Again I ask ... should we censor the news we report from this Iraq war?

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
I am afraid no matter how we judge this event, justified or not, self defence or not.. there are now many in the Islamic world who have judged us all as pure evil... That could prove to be a source of pain for all of us in the future.

Again I ask ... should we censor the news we report from this Iraq war?

I'm sorry...but it looks to me like you just answered your own question...

It seems to me like it should go to the Military first, then to the general public...

So my answer is YES, it should be censored, if that is the answer you're looking for...

Marine Shooting Probe in Iraq (MSNBC) 2004-11-15

According to the MSNBC report, Marines engaged in battle with persons at the Mosque on Friday. They killed ten insurgents and wounded five.
They then removed the weapons, treated the wounded, and left them there.

It was one of those five wounded that was killed by the Marine the next day.

Originally posted by JacKatMtn


This was an NBC reporter and I am happy to say "I will never watch another show on NBC, until there is an "on air" apology for jumping on this story.

Fox News jumped on the story also:

Fox News 11-15-2004 (video)

I guess you won't be watching them any more.


[edit on 16-11-2004 by AceOfBase]

What is NBC thinking? Why does it seem like the networks in the country want us to be up in arms about the war? If you are going to show this on network tv, why don't you have some former veterans stressing why situations like this occur and why it is a necessity. Why didn't the network follow up by stating that many wounded often boobytrap their bodies with grenades, etc once realizing they are no longer capable of fighting.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Gazz, the shame of it is the enemy.

In WWII, young Americans with American compassion found out the hard way that the Japanese were ruthless, too. Medics and soldiers alike would go to help wounded enemy soldiers only to get their heads blown off or grenades in their chests.

This enemy is no different in its fanaticism or ruthlessness.

I agree with you Thomas Crowne.

I can see why this Marine shot this man.. But the perception in other parts of the world is what brings concern.

We have given this "ruthless" enemy propaganda to use against us.

With a single gun shot captured on video we gave them the status of a victim.. even if for only a moment.. That very moment will be seen by millions of arabs and muslims around the world.. You do not have to convince me who the enemies are in this war... But try to explain all of this to a muslim... Any muslim.

Originally posted by infinite8
What is NBC thinking? Why does it seem like the networks in the country want us to be up in arms about the war? If you are going to show this on network tv, why don't you have some former veterans stressing why situations like this occur and why it is a necessity. Why didn't the network follow up by stating that many wounded often boobytrap their bodies with grenades, etc once realizing they are no longer capable of fighting.

Watch the video I linked to on page two of this thread.
They did mention in the report that the insurgents were using dead bodies to plant IEDs.

Well I think NBC should be ashamed, but it is there goal to undermine the war in everyway they can. Let me remind people of something, what do they do?

Insurgents playing nice!


Charred corpses mutilated in Falluja; 'Let Bush come see this!

FALLUJA, Iraq An enraged mob attacked four American contractors here Wednesday, shooting them to death, burning their vehicles, dragging their bodies through the streets and then hanging the charred corpses from a bridge over the Euphrates River.
.
A State Department spokesman, Lou Fintor, confirming the nationalities Wednesday, said that neither the names of the victims nor the name of the company for which they worked would be immediately made public.
.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by edsinger]

Originally posted by Amuk
What a shame, I guess they will have to kidnap and kill a few more women and blow up some more of there own people to teach us a lesson.

Screw them

Wow AMUK, we agree another time!


These criminals have no class nor morals....

Originally posted by d1k
Oh noes, the muslims are angry. What would they say if the marine picked him up and beheaded him instead of shooting him?

How true this is? Why no outcry when they behead people, at least this was a quick death and not a saw job.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by edsinger]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
In WWII, young Americans with American compassion found out the hard way that the Japanese were ruthless, too. Medics and soldiers alike would go to help wounded enemy soldiers only to get their heads blown off or grenades in their chests.

I bet most in here do not know what the Japanese did? They are very similar circumstances.......good call Thomas.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by edsinger]

Originally posted by Jedi_Master
Honestly...

I think the Marine should have shot the reporters first, then shot the terrorist...

Just My Opinion...

This particular reporter is done, troops will not want him around and if he insists, he will be pushed into enemy fire.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by edsinger]

Interesting, I could have sworn I heard a report that the killing was to 'put him out of his misery' or something. I wonder how much of the extenuating circumstances that are being thrown around now are pure spin, and how much are true.

For those who immediately like to draw lines from this to the beheadings etc. You might want to take a look back at what you are saying.

This is ok because they do worse?

Isn't one of the earliest lessons we teach our children is that it is not 'OK' to do something because someone else did it. "If these insurgents jumped off a cliff..." etc.

If we recall, after the WMD claims fell through, the focus of the invasion of Iraq was for 'liberation' and 'freedom' for the Iraqi people. Fair enough. A strong moral stance to take. A massive change in US policy sure, but seemingly justified at the time.

But now, with things like this and Abu Ghraib etc. The high moral position gets trashed, and the moral position is what this entire campaign is based on. Indeed what it is relying upon to work. Right or Wrong, the men behind this will need to have an example made of them, no matter the circumstances. If only to recoup some of the massive losses that events like this cause to the US' mission in Iraq.

Regarding the broadcast of war, I�m leaning toward the side of letting it all hang out. Show everything; hide nothing. In bold, living color show every gory detail what war is like. This applies to both sides of the conflict. Show Americans getting their heads blown, or cut, off, and show Americans doing the same thing to the other side. Let EVERYONE see the consequences of declaring and engaging in war.

As it is, most people have a glorified image of war and think of the heroic actions that sometimes take place on the battlefield. Since we�ve never had one take place on our soil, Civil War excluded, it�s not a REAL thing. Hollywood and the media show us a slanted view of it all and, for most, that�s all we have to go on. Make everyone aware that in war we use real bullets and real bombs, and when we do we take REAL LIVES.

I�m fully aware that this could be like throwing fuel on the fire for the other side, but that goes both ways if you�re getting equal coverage.

In proper perspective, the incident of the Marine shooting the man in the Mosque is pretty mild. This sort of thing has gone on for as long as humans have waged war. I�m not minimizing the act of taking an innocent life. I�m just stating a fact. If anyone thinks this is some sort of isolated incident, then they�ve never been in a war; at least not in the line of fire.

I think that if the people of our nation are going to approve of and support our leaders when they decide to wage war around the world, then the people should do so with full knowledge of just what that means, and not based on what they saw when they watched John Wayne in �the Green Berets�.

If everyone knew, in a real way, what war is all about (the good, bad and the ugly), then perhaps we wouldn�t have so many of them. Maybe a little shock treatment would do us some good. Perhaps then we�d be a little more humble and respectful of life; qualities that seem to be disappearing in our culture �

I don't support killing unarmed men. But this is far less serious, then a arab pullings people off the the streets and cutting their head's off. They also killed female care worker.

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

War is hell they say. To the muslims we are the creators of hell and if they are looking for proof they will find it.
[edit on 16-11-2004 by UM_Gazz]

It appears to me that the US invaded Iraq and not the other way around. It also appears that the explicit basis of the position advanced in your opinion is a justification of killing of members of a group on the basis only that they are members of that group. That is the stuff of genocide.

Time to think.