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ATS: World Reacts To Mosque Shooting; Muslim Rage

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posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:05 PM
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In one moment captured on video taken by a NBC reporter in the battle of Fallujah which shows the shooting of an unarmed man inside of a mosque. That video has been now shown in the Arab/Muslim media by Al Jazeera and is sending a shockwave of anger and rage through the Muslim world and most of all among the Sunni Muslims of Iraq. American and Iraqi authorities have tried to stop the rage from spreading among Sunnis, after most of them watched footage of the shooting which aired throughout the day on Al-Jazeera television. For the most part the western world's reaction has been much more mild claiming the Marine acted in self defense.
 





CBSNEWS.com Full Article

The fatal shooting of a wounded and apparently unarmed man in a Fallujah mosque by a U.S. Marine angered Sunni Muslims in Iraq on Tuesday and raised questions about the protection of enemy fighters once they are out of action.

The U.S. Military is investigating the shooting, which was captured on video. A spokesman at Marine Corps headquarters in the gave no further details, other than to confirm the incident happened on Saturday and that the Marines involved were part of the 1st Marine Division.

International legal experts said the Marine might have acted in self-defense because of a danger that a wounded enemy may try to blow up a hidden weapon; a key issue was whether the injured man was a prisoner at the time.

The shooting happened one day after the Marine, who has not been identified, was wounded in the face and after another man in his unit was killed by the booby-trapped body of an insurgent.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.





From The Full Article at ABCNEWS.com

American and Iraqi authorities tried to prevent rage from spreading among Sunnis, many of whom watched dramatic footage of the shooting that aired throughout the day on Al-Jazeera television, a Qatar-based satellite station. American stations did not show the killing itself.

"Look at this old man who was slain by them," said Ahmed Khalil, 40, as he watched the video in his Baghdad shop. "Was he a fighter? Was anybody who was killed inside this mosque a fighter? Where are their weapons? I don't know what to say."

It was unclear to what extent other Iraqis, particularly the majority Shiite Muslims, cared about the shooting.

Maysoun Hirmiz, 36, a Christian merchant in Baghdad, said she was not satisfied by an announcement by the U.S. military that it had removed the Marine from the battlefield and will investigate whether he acted in self defense.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


This would for the most part be a non-issue if it was not for having been captured on video by embedded reporters, and then broadcast.



That moment may seem like a non-issue to many of us. To those in the in the Arab world seeing an unarmed muslim being shot like this in of all places a mosque will only further the cause of radical islamists who have claimed that the United States of America and their military are "the great evil"

Perhaps it will cause major political problems for the government of Prime Minister Ayad Allawi at a time when Iraqi authorities are seeking to contain a backlash among Sunnis as a result of the invasion of Fallujah.

How are the arab/muslim media web sites reporting this killing?




Al Jazeera.net Full Article

The man was one of five wounded and left in the mosque after US marines fought their way through the area.

A second group of marines entered the mosque on Saturday after reports that fighters opposed to the US presence in Iraq had moved back into it.

Footage from the NBC television crew showed the five still in the mosque. Several appeared to be already close to death, NBC correspondent Kevin Sites said.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Other News From Al Jazeera:

UN seeks probe into Falluja war crimes

By having these embedded reporters among the military during this battle have we given the enemy a major item they can now use as propaganda to insite the muslims around the world to join the jihad?

Should the U.S. military censor these "reporters"?

War is hell they say. To the muslims we are the creators of hell and if they are looking for proof they will find it.

This will be seen as a non-issue and an act of self defence by most of us myself included, however those in the arab and muslim world will not share our view.

Only time will show the true impact of this in both Iraq and the rest of the Islamic world... That could be a long time after most of us have forgotten about it.

The divide continues to grow.


[edit on 16-11-2004 by UM_Gazz]




posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:11 PM
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Angry Muslims? Mark your calendars! We don't get to see that very often.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:15 PM
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I do think that NBC should have shown restraint in airing these images. It's not like the networks don't make exceptions other times. Remember them not calling the state of Ohio because the Kerry Campaign asked them not to? NBC is in bed with anything anti-american and loved showing the tape.

Like I said in another thread what were we supposed to do patch this 'terrorist' up, send him to guantanomo, where he will wait until an activist judge will demand he be released, afterwards he goes back to killing Americans



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by BlackJackal
I do think that NBC should have shown restraint in airing these images. It's not like the networks don't make exceptions other times.


I understand your point, however I find it very strange having seen many here at ATS and in other places saying that the U.S. military is to controling over what is reported through these embedded reporters, yet when this comes out everyone seems to think it should have not been shown or otherwise censored.

Am I the only one who sees it this way?

We are fine with war coverage as long as it shows us for the most part in a good light, but when something bad comes to the surface there are many who say that it should not be shown... can we have it both ways?

I say we should have nothing to hide... and in reality I do not believe that the reality of war can be totally hidden.

In this case perhaps it would have been better to have hidden it... But what would you be saying if after a year from now if this had came to the media after the fact?

NBC had to do some real soul searching I am sure before choosing to air this tape... Like any news it is not always made it just happens.

Are you in favor of censoring the news that we report from this war?

Is this just one report that slipped through?

Gazz



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:43 PM
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I just wish there would be some footage of what the Insurgants have done. I can't believe that all of them are choir boys before the US arrived. I do agree that what has happened in Iraq is what is called a "Honeywell".

All who hate and dispise the US will travel to Iraq to get a piece of them.

Angry? I'm angry as well, but more disappointed that a Marine did that. However, I said it before and I'll say it again, I understand based off of the circumstances, I don't agree with it, but can understand his actions.

I just wonder how huge this is going to turn out. I mean, when that is broadcasted, it paints a picture that all we are is evil because of one's mistake in judgement.




posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:52 PM
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I notice that the muslims aren't too vocal about all of the beheadings.


Nor are they all that upset that the insurgents were using the mosques as military bases.

[edit on 16-11-2004 by HowardRoark]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:54 PM
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Let the America haters think what they will. I have seen the unedited tape and it is clear the Marine was justified in assuming the insurgent was a threat. Now, we have one less insurgent and a squad of Marines will continue to liberate Iraq from these animals.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:54 PM
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The problem is not censorship but the selective news that are shown coming from Iraq must of the time.

One thing is seen children death from the war, and another,one of our own killing first hand an "insurgent"

I don't agree with the killing of the inocent or the injured children as casualties of this war.

But I still supprt our troops and I think something like that video should have been destroyed and not allowed to come into the news.

Now as the result of that video is going to be more martyrs ready to die for their cause and taking our american soldiers with them.

I don't care what anybody think but this war is the biggest mistake the present administration has gotten this country into, and our soldiers are paying for that mistake everywhere they go.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 07:57 PM
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This will be seen as a non-issue and an act of self defence by most of us myself included, however those in the arab and muslim world will not share our view.


I don't share your view, at least not from an objective viewpoint. Subjectively, the soldier who did the shooting may have felt threatened. I've seen the video clip. It protrays nothing at all to justify the killing. Just shows several obviously incapacitated or dead Iragis lying on the floor of the Mosque. The soldier says something like "this one's breathing . . . he's pretending to be dead" and then pumps a bullet into the head of the motionless man. Apparently, the soldier thought they were all dead, noticed a sign of life, and made sure it was extinguished. Self-defense? Subjectively, doubtful. Objectively, not a chance.

Is this how you want captured Americans to be treated? Yeah, yeah, don't bother saying they would be treated this way in any event. That may be true in this conflict. But are we like them? This sets an example for the treatment of Americans in other contexts and is not limited to this one.

You don't know who that person was. You don't know whether he was a combatant or just some poor schmuck caught in the wrong palce at the wrong time. You don't know whether there was evidence of any weapon within reach. All you have is a room in which marines armed to the gills are standing upright with several Iraqis lying on the floor apparently dead with one trying to breathe. So, give your prejudices a rest for a moment and rethink your take on this situation. Your posts are being read by people around the world. At least show some evidence of rational thought.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:02 PM
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The way I see it is this. This should not have been reported because it compromises not only US Operations in the area but possibly the entire campaign. This report should have been shelved for the sake of the Iraqi's and American Soldiers.

I would say that this should have been reported in the US only but in this day and age that is impossible. With that said I think the idea of imbedded reporters needs to be done away with.



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by dubiousone
You don't know who that person was. You don't know whether he was a combatant or just some poor schmuck caught in the wrong palce at the wrong time. You don't know whether there was evidence of any weapon within reach.

By your own admission, neither do you. So why all the self-righteous pontification about something you know so little about?


Originally posted by dubiousone
So, give your prejudices a rest for a moment and rethink your take on this situation. Your posts are being read by people around the world. At least show some evidence of rational thought.

Good advice not only to give, but to follow as well.


[edit on 11/16/2004 by Majic]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz

I understand your point, however I find it very strange having seen many here at ATS and in other places saying that the U.S. military is to controling over what is reported through these embedded reporters, yet when this comes out everyone seems to think it should have not been shown or otherwise censored.

Am I the only one who sees it this way?



No actually you are not. I think it is important for journalists to report what is going on - good with the bad. It's just disappointing when the media seems to relish in the mistakes or setbacks while giving little attention to any progress being made or the successes - the things that are done right.

I really wonder if any of these people who are outraged at the death really care about this man or has he simply become a propaganda tool? Look at Ms. Hassan's death today - is there equal outrage and disgust?



B.


[edit on 11/16/04 by Bleys]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:11 PM
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We are fine with war coverage as long as it shows us for the most part in a good light, but when something bad comes to the surface there are many who say that it should not be shown... can we have it both ways?


Exactly, lots of people would like to ignore the bad and sweep it under the rug like it never happened...even worse, there are those who defend it out of blind patriotism. For instance United States could do something crazy like nuke Canada, how much would you want to bet those same people would immediately start defending the U.S's actions...

Blind patriots give me the "willies"



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by BlackJackal
The way I see it is this. This should not have been reported because it compromises not only US Operations in the area but possibly the entire campaign. This report should have been shelved for the sake of the Iraqi's and American Soldiers.


In the land of the free... which has freedom of the press you would advocate censoring a report like this?

Let the world judge us, not by this single event but by the whole of our actions.

Have we not done more good than bad in Iraq?

Do I detect a sense of shame among many of you?

We cannot hide the reality of war.. anymore than we can hide from it, It matters less now what we think than what the perception of the Muslim world will be.

Its too late to debate rather it should have been shown or not.. It was... and even now it is being shown over and over again in the arab muslim world... Should they judge us by the single action of this one marine?

We live in an information age, should we now complain when we are given information?

Again I say it matters very little what we think of this... To the Muslim population of this world which now consists of over 1 billion people it will have far greater impact.

Do we censor the news of this war or not?

[edit on 16-11-2004 by UM_Gazz]



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:15 PM
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What a shame, I guess they will have to kidnap and kill a few more women and blow up some more of there own people to teach us a lesson.

Screw them



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:28 PM
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UM_Gazz,



Do we censor the news of this war or not?


To answer your question this would have never been news if it wasn't for imbedded reporters tagging along with the military. This experiment of including reporters with the military has definetely worked out and needs to be done away with. This is not the first time the news agencies have aided the enemy during this campaign. Remember Geraldo drawing troop movenments in the sand?



Again I say it matters very little what we think of this... To the Muslim population of this world which now consists of over 1 billion people it will have far greater impact


I think you answered your on question; the american media has given fuel to the American enemy. How stupid can the media be?



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:35 PM
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In muslim communities from the UK to Italy, in madrasses (muslim schools) from North Africa to Arabia, the Caucasus, Pakistan and all the way to Indonesia, the Phillipines and even to Northern China, these video has given imams more grounds to turn hundreds to thousands of moderate muslims into terrorists -each one of these terrorists are potential mass killers!

The war on terror can only be won when we use our ratio instead of our hate and revenge, and the essence is that we should not give the Jihadists any more grounds to recruit more Jihadists - but in fact we have given them more "reasons": no evidences of WMD, no evidences of Sadam-Al Qaeda, Abu Graihb, and now this video.

Even the Jihadists who killed Theo van Gogh and who declared holy war in Hollad was "inspired" after seeing war footages from Iraq and Afghanistan: e.g. the bombing on a crowd.

Many terrorists who have committed their acts are highly educated. This video will just strengthen the determination of a Jihadist somewhere -perhaps in a camp in Sudan, or in the mountains in the Caucasus or China or Pakistan, or the forrests in Asia, to finish his mission: a WMD against the USA and the west.

This video has created more enemies for us. This war on terror, which may take perhaps two or five decades or even more to end, can only be won by using our ratio rather than letting our hate and revenge speak.

I am not going to discuss whether the act of the marine, given his circumstances, is justifiable. But surely you must agree the outcome of his act is not desired.

Blobber



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk
What a shame, I guess they will have to kidnap and kill a few more women and blow up some more of there own people to teach us a lesson.

Screw them


I guess it could be called a shame, and it seems that is what many feel over this issue.

And I guess you are right, let us not forget that every muslim in Iraq is the enemy.... At some point it may become just that.. A battle between western/Christian culture and Islam.

Then we could with ease say that every muslim is the enemy and kill them all... Right?

Is that not where we are now headed in this war?

Was this man that was killed proven to have been a terrorist?

Was he just in the wrong place at the wrong time?.. just another victim of war?

A war we were invited to, in a dramatic way on September 11, 2001.

Will things like what is seen in this video make things worse for us in the future of this war?

Who knows?

This is only one shooting, in a war that by all accounts has claimed the lives of many thousands.

So maybe we should just get the reporters out and get rid of the cameras once and for all... So no one on either side has to see the reality of war.

Then we can all sleep better.. Right?

[edit on 16-11-2004 by UM_Gazz]


d1k

posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:43 PM
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Oh noes, the muslims are angry. What would they say if the marine picked him up and beheaded him instead of shooting him?



posted on Nov, 16 2004 @ 08:47 PM
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Gazz, the shame of it is the enemy.

In WWII, young Americans with American compassion found out the hard way that the Japanese were ruthless, too. Medics and soldiers alike would go to help wounded enemy soldiers only to get their heads blown off or grenades in their chests.
This enemy is no different in its fanaticism or ruthlessness. Had the young marine been shot to bits, along with his squad, by the wounded nutjob, that would have been considered the fortunes of war. After the marine does his job in protecting himself and his squad from an enemy that was still a threat, he is now being scorned by those reading about this, sitting safely in their living rooms or computer rooms. There is the shame of it. The reporter should be ashamed, and every death caused by a soldier second guessing his every move because of this reckless reporting, is on his head.



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