Baptism and the Flood of Noah for Dummies - Beasts in the Water

reply to post by EnochWasRight

See clearly by examining yourself first.

LOL... I'm WAAaayyy ahead of you on that one, dude.

Ergo: Right back atcha.

You are receiving open and honest critiques -- of your ideas, of how you come across, and how your threads come across.

Examine yourself before making another one calling others "Dummies." I'm out now. Bait me all you like, I'm "ignoring" your thoughts from now on.

Is it because you have nothing worthwhile to say?? NO.

It's because you are IMPOSSIBLE to have a conversation with, and are so SELF-ASSURED that you shut others out ROUTINELY.

But. Is it....Without even knowing it? Maybe, but that's giving you the benefit of the doubt (Fallacious thinking, anyone?) You are obviously FAR from 'uneducated' or 'unintelligent', though...so....
hmmmm......no, that can't be it.

Which leaves WILLFULLY shutting others out, as in *eyes closed, fingers in the ears crying "lalalala I can't HEAR you!'* and using deflection tactics and refusing to address the real challenges to not only your "thinking" (you'd say 'Truth'), but also to your own 'reflection.'

kthxbai

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


The verses you highlighted are about people like Paul. He is pointing the finger at others so that the attention is pulled away from himself. He is the deceitful one you are always looking for but never see. He has deceived you by masquerading as an angel of light, as he himself puts it.

As the old saying goes, if you point your finger at someone, three are pointing right back at you. Paul was pointing his finger at others, three were pointing right back at himself. He is the deceiver you are so afraid of.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Can you express your view of the thread's subject without speaking of me?

No. Because it is all about you. Honestly, I shudder to think about what you are teaching to children. There are MANY ways to attain the Ultimate (not YOUR) Truth, and I'm weary of watching you talk down to people and call them "Dummies" (your lame excuses for it being a pun are empty), and PREACHING to them that they are sinning, ignorant, and stupid (or too lazy to bother taking a course, so they'll settle for a 'for Dummies' version like a Cliffs-Notes. We've all done it).

And YOU, by titling these threads using a (probably copyrighted) plagiarized "gimmick" ... are blatantly intending them to seem approachable, accessible as a children's book about how birds fly, and as 'easy reading explanations'. Like a wolf wearing a sheep costume. But the problem is - you DON'T KNOW if it's really 'the truth' .

Calling people 'sinners' and insisting that Christianity "a la Superior Education" is the only way to be "saved" is a PROBLEM. A BIG problem. It's disingenuous, and you know it is.

Further, what would your foundation of thought rest upon?

Lack of arrogance. OPEN ACCESS TO INFORMATION, and not being told "THIS IS THE TRUTH BECAUSE I SAY SO!"

I told you, I'm done. Carry on with whatever. I'll pray for the children you influence.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Speak to the subject only. Think of me how you wish. I can accept your opinion, but this does nothing to serve well toward debate. There is a mirror for this.

What is the subject of the thread though? YOUR interpretation of scripture. What have we been addressing? YOUR interpretation of scripture. We have found YOUR interpretation of scripture lacking because YOU refuse to see the Inconsistencies within scripture.

Why do you continuously make threads sharing YOUR interpretation on what scripture means if you do not wish to discuss them with an open mind? When someone challenges YOUR interpretation, you direct them to another thread. Isn't that supposed to be the point of this thread? To discuss the ideas that YOU bring up?

And yes, I said YOU and YOUR seven times. You know why? Because the topic of discussion is YOUR interpretation. It is your ideas that are being discussed remember. Stop playing the victim.

wildtimes
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

See clearly by examining yourself first.

LOL... I'm WAAaayyy ahead of you on that one, dude.

Ergo: Right back atcha.

You are receiving open and honest critiques -- of your ideas, of how you come across, and how your threads come across.

Examine yourself before making another one calling others "Dummies." I'm out now. Bait me all you like, I'm "ignoring" your thoughts from now on.

Is it because you have nothing worthwhile to say?? NO.

It's because you are IMPOSSIBLE to have a conversation with, and are so SELF-ASSURED that you shut others out ROUTINELY.

But. Is it....Without even knowing it? Maybe, but that's giving you the benefit of the doubt (Fallacious thinking, anyone?) You are obviously FAR from 'uneducated' or 'unintelligent', though...so....
hmmmm......no, that can't be it.

Which leaves WILLFULLY shutting others out, as in *eyes closed, fingers in the ears crying "lalalala I can't HEAR you!'* and using deflection tactics and refusing to address the real challenges to not only your "thinking" (you'd say 'Truth'), but also to your own 'reflection.'

kthxbai

edit on 11/3/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Every sentence about me again.

wildtimes
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Can you express your view of the thread's subject without speaking of me?

No. Because it is all about you. Honestly, I shudder to think about what you are teaching to children. There are MANY ways to attain the Ultimate (not YOUR) Truth, and I'm weary of watching you talk down to people and call them "Dummies" (your lame excuses for it being a pun are empty), and PREACHING to them that they are sinning, ignorant, and stupid (or too lazy to bother taking a course, so they'll settle for a 'for Dummies' version like a Cliffs-Notes. We've all done it).

And YOU, by titling these threads using a (probably copyrighted) plagiarized "gimmick" ... are blatantly intending them to seem approachable, accessible as a children's book about how birds fly, and as 'easy reading explanations'. Like a wolf wearing a sheep costume. But the problem is - you DON'T KNOW if it's really 'the truth' .

Calling people 'sinners' and insisting that Christianity "a la Superior Education" is the only way to be "saved" is a PROBLEM. A BIG problem. It's disingenuous, and you know it is.

Further, what would your foundation of thought rest upon?

Lack of arrogance. OPEN ACCESS TO INFORMATION, and not being told "THIS IS THE TRUTH BECAUSE I SAY SO!"

I told you, I'm done. Carry on with whatever. I'll pray for the children you influence.

edit on 11/3/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Again, all about me.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Speak to the subject only. Think of me how you wish. I can accept your opinion, but this does nothing to serve well toward debate. There is a mirror for this.

What is the subject of the thread though? YOUR interpretation of scripture. What have we been addressing? YOUR interpretation of scripture. We have found YOUR interpretation of scripture lacking because YOU refuse to see the Inconsistencies within scripture.

Why do you continuously make threads sharing YOUR interpretation on what scripture means if you do not wish to discuss them with an open mind? When someone challenges YOUR interpretation, you direct them to another thread. Isn't that supposed to be the point of this thread? To discuss the ideas that YOU bring up?

And yes, I said YOU and YOUR seven times. You know why? Because the topic of discussion is YOUR interpretation. It is your ideas that are being discussed remember. Stop playing the victim.

The thread's subject is Baptism and the Genesis account of the flood in relation.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


YOUR interpretation of it though. Your thread, your thoughts, your opinion. If you don't want to discuss your opinion, why make the thread? I've already responded about baptism, but you conveniently ignored it.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

YOUR interpretation of it though. Your thread, your thoughts, your opinion. If you don't want to discuss your opinion, why make the thread? I've already responded about baptism, but you conveniently ignored it.

Tell you what. I will go back to all your posts. I'll even examine the posts of wildtimes as well. Stay tuned.

wildtimes
Hey, Ed. Has it ever occurred to you that when you make threads and add "for Dummies" it's automatically turning some readers away?

Kinda like your old fave - the "smoke and you get cancer" metaphor?

Not all smokers "get cancer" - in fact, fewer than 10%. And not all "unbelievers" are "Dummies." Just a suggestion/observation. Your approach is vaguely insulting (not to mention cliche).

edit on 11/2/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

The first reply to my thread says 'you' five times. It is 100% about me and my approach. 0% about the subject. Criticism only. Links zero. References to other opinions zero. Statements about baptism, Noah, the flood zero.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
Baptism represents child birth. We are dipped into the water (amniotic fluid) of the Jordan (mother's womb) and emerge (are born again) with the Holy Spirit. This is why it is called AMNiotic fluid, because it causes AMNesia, it causes us to forget our previous lives, it grants us AMNesty, a forgiveness of sins we may have committed in past lives.

God is just, he forgives all debts (sins) no matter what they are. The only judgement is what situation you end up in when being born again. It's possible that we are on this Earth (Egypt) suffering right now because we made others suffer in our previous life(s). What goes around comes around so to say

The bible codifies and distorts the true meaning of its words by using euphemisms and metaphors. You are on the right track Enoch, you're just going in the wrong direction in my opinion. Those who wrote the bible gave you a faulty compass.

To stop being dumb, don't ignore truth.

You're calling anyone who disagrees with you dumb. Sounds like your ego to me. God destroys the ego, so I don't think you really know God at all, you don't know yourself.

edit on 2-11-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

You have some good comments here, but then you attack me again. You attack the writers of the Bible. You are using biblical concepts as true at the top, then denying the accuracy of the words that gave you the concepts. I responded to this as follows:

It's a pun on the dummies books and denying ignorance. Quote the entire comment and stop twisting what is said. Again, people see right through you when you do this.

"To stop being dumb, don't ignore truth. Denying God is ignorance. Let it be said that ATS is a place to deny ignorance with Truth. AMEN! "

Your next comments are as follows:

What if what you are saying is not truth to some? Does that mean they are ignoring your truth and therefore they are dumb because of that? Like I said, you're insinuating people who disagree with you are dumb. Not a great way to get people to see it your way.

"SuperiorEd" was your previous name wasn't it? Sounds like you have a superiority complex to me. Your ego is showing.

There you go again. Speaking about me. No content to the subject.

I then gave you a reply, of topic from your derailing of the thread, giving you the truth of the matter: LINK

Next, you then continued from your first bit of Ad Hominem: LINK

You then had something to say that was thoughtful: LINK

Between these last few replies, I state many bits of context to other users and to you as well.

Another thoughtful post on your part: LINK

LINK --From this point on, you got frustrated and started attacking me again.

For a while there, it was a healthy conversation. I believe this is when Wildtimes gets back into the mix.

Wildtimes: Personal Attack

Wildtimes Again Defensive / Criticizing

Although we disagree, you have a good way of asking questions. Subject oriented.

Wildtimes again criticizes only...

Wildtimes says she is not judging me.... Then proceeds to judge me.

The rest just gets more and more judgmental toward me. I will give you the credit for the most posts close to the topic at hand.

For me, I will stick to the subject again now. This review is about what I thought it was the first time. I had a few comments off my platform as well. Mostly, I stuck to the subject and tried to get it back on track again.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

YOUR interpretation of it though. Your thread, your thoughts, your opinion. If you don't want to discuss your opinion, why make the thread? I've already responded about baptism, but you conveniently ignored it.

From what I just read through, we discussed it quite well. Aside from constantly speaking about me, you made quite a few comments of your own to the subject. I am not changing my position. It is well founded. I assume you like yours as well. What's the problem here? Oh, right. Me.

Again, there is a rant section if you want to argue my new with our subconscious.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


The thing is I first gave a statement about my view on baptism, then I pointed out that you used an ad hominem by insinuating that those who do not agree with you are dumb.

You then decided to ignore my thoughts on baptism and instead decided to address my point of your ad hominem, at that point I assumed you were not interested in discussing the symbolism behind baptism or the flood so I continued along the the new path you started which was ad hominems and logical fallacies.

I was all for discussing the topic, but you ignored everything in my post that was on topic in favor of a small footnote addressing your ad hominem attack on potential readers who disagreed with you.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


The topic of discussion is your interpretation of scripture, I do not agree with it and have given my reasons why. This is the point of the thread right? To discuss your thoughts with others?

Only when you started to play the victim did it turn into what we have now, between you and I at least.

I have a secret to tell you. Some of your threads have actually helped my understanding of scripture, even if I have gone down a slightly different path than you. I look for natural and simple explanations to the teachings in the bible, you are stuck with supernatural and convoluted explanations.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

The topic of discussion is your interpretation of scripture, I do not agree with it and have given my reasons why. This is the point of the thread right? To discuss your thoughts with others?

Only when you started to play the victim did it turn into what we have now, between you and I at least.

I have a secret to tell you. Some of your threads have actually helped my understanding of scripture, even if I have gone down a slightly different path than you. I look for natural and simple explanations to the teachings in the bible, you are stuck with supernatural and convoluted explanations.

Both of us learn here on ATS. It's a great place for this purpose. Each of us are unique to the task we have in life.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Wildtimes: Personal Attack

No. It was NOT a 'personal attack.'
Here are the things I SAID:

"Well!
Okay, then! That explains a lot.

Thanks for sharing.
By the way, I don't for one nanosecond agree to the Prayer of Humble Access.
To wit:

We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his body, and our souls washed through his most precious blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. Amen.


Oh, and this one, too:

Most merciful God,
we confess that we have sinned against you
in thought, word, and deed,
by what we have done,
and by what we have left undone.
We have not loved you with our whole heart;
we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We are truly sorry and we
humbly repent. For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ,
have mercy on us and forgive us;
that we may delight in your will,
and walk in your ways,
to the glory of your Name. Amen.


As a little girl......having to recite these things.....my question was:
What the hell did I do? NOT do? Why am I unworthy of crumbs off the floor?

Oh well. My own 'cross' to bear, I guess. It just, well.....damaged me.

That is a personal attack HOW????????
I'm not going to even bother with the rest of your 'linky evidence' claiming I am attacking you. Ridiculous.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

The verses you highlighted are about people like Paul. He is pointing the finger at others so that the attention is pulled away from himself. He is the deceitful one you are always looking for but never see. He has deceived you by masquerading as an angel of light, as he himself puts it.

As the old saying goes, if you point your finger at someone, three are pointing right back at you. Paul was pointing his finger at others, three were pointing right back at himself. He is the deceiver you are so afraid of.

Paul didn't point the finger at others, he gave counsel and advice against committing sins. He also said that he considered himself chief among sinners. We all struggle against ourselves, which is another reason we need Jesus Christ.

Neither was Paul talking to unbelievers, but those who chose to accept the terms of Christ. If you don't want to accept it then so be it, go your own way. No one is going to beg you to change your mind.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


He gave counsel on how not to sin by telling us sin is unavoidable. Jesus never said sin was unavoidable.

Didn't Jesus give counsel on how not to sin? So why was Paul even needed? Were Jesus' words not good enough?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Do you recall that very day of birth. That day of anguish and torture and mutilation of your body. THE VERY DAY OF THAT LIGHT. Its a wonder we are born with little hair.

As far as rebirth? when the above comes around again in your life. write about it. there will not be much talk of water.